Heir and Spare

[Nard75]

Looking to the future and all the problems that have happened with Harry being the spare and being treated differently to his older brother. How do you think William will handle this with his 2 children seeing as he has spare X2. I feel William has been unsympathetic towards the position that Harry has been in so how will he feel when it is his 2 children are going through the same thing that their Uncle did.

@NiqueNique agree. Blimey she likes her helicopter though. We live next to Gatcombe and she uses it constantly, I think she pops to Tesco's in it. Which as I am sure you will know is not what they are supposed to do.

Re @Serenster 's post of 19.06 yesterday, and @Likewhatever 's response, yes, you are right. The relationship between the Queen and Princess Margaret was not toxic. (How weary I am of the blasted 'toxic' word being thrown around everywhere.) I don't know if PM was still married when her affair with Roddy began, but if she was, her marriage must have been fairly crumbly by then and Roddy was single. Didn't the Queen speak on the phone to the QM and PM every day if she could? It's possible to be embarrassed by a sister's behaviour sometimes and not to like every single thing which she did, without any toxicity being present.

Everything’s toxic these days! 🙄

@Burpeea haha I’d probably get a little bit too used to that convenience, were I in her (sensible) shoes! Why drive/be driven for 4 hours when you can do the whole thing in 45 min flat! 😉

As an aside, it’s a real shame that so many people seem to think that The Crown is a documentary!

looking at the old photos and films shown after the queens death, her and Margaret looked very close(why were they always dressed the same though?

Princess Annes has not always been popular. I remember my parents generation not being keen on her. weird as now she is the only really hard working royal, maybe they need to grow into the role.

I really can see why H was not keen on being his brothers sidekick once he became a family man.

@Samcro do you mean dressed the same as children?

I've a couple of theories it was fashion at the time to dress kids the same, make photos look more 'we are family', people use similar colours of clothes for photo shoots to make the photos look better.
My other more questionable though is its a sign of wealth. Look how wealthy we are, we've bought matching outfits for our kids, youngest isn't wearing hand me downs.

and teens.
that is a point about a sign of wealth. never thought of that.

..except the things that are unprecedented! Putting up with the cliches that are trotted out by the TV and MPs every day is part of my 'lived experience'. Ah well, if I switch the telly off I won't hear them and I'll save electricity.

P. Anne lives at Gatcombe Park, which since has hosted the Gatcombe Horse Trials. This was presumably designed, worked on by Anne and her then husband Captain Mark Phillips, so work of a sort. It happens every year, so not sure how involved, or how much work it would be now.
In other words, P. Anne has been instrumental in attempting to boost her income, without monetising the Royal Family.
I think the 'spares' have a bit of a problem in that they should aim to have some kind of career, that is not too contentious, in case they later become the heir.
As someone said earlier, until recently the female 'spares' were just expected to marry well and become some chatelaine of some other country estate.

Yes, exactly.

Also on Princess Margaret's problems with marrying the man she loved, it is rarely commented on that Peter Townsend knew her since she was 12 (as he was an equerry). My memory of Ma'am Darling is hazy and Craig Brown isn't the most reliable source, but doesn't he quote diary entries there that suggest Townsend was attracted to her when she was 15? Then he posits that a date on her car numberplate may have been when she lost her virginity to him at 18. And didn't Townsend meet his future wife, Marie, who resembled Margaret, when she was underage too? It all seems a bit strange - not exactly the ideal husband?

sorry, just found this - www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-5216399/Did-Princess-Margarets-lover-sleep-17.html

I obtained a copy of Ma'am Darling thanks to someone leaving a copy lying around in the work coffee room, where I left it after reading. I don't normally read Royal books but I do recommend this. It's entertaining, somewhat bitchy an enjoyable mix of gossip and thorough research.
I was shocked at the details regarding Townsend. This wasn't a grand romance of star crossed lovers sadly thwarted by class and The Crown. He was at best a cad and at worst a borderline paedophile.
At some point he was sent off to Belgium for a year, in the hope Margaret would forget him. Whilst there he met his next wife, a 14 year old girl who fell off her horse at his feet leading him to ingratiate himself with her family. Once Margaret gave up on him, he headed back to Belgium and married her.
Margaret gave up on him probably because she realised being the somewhat financially straightened boring old Mrs Townsend wasn't going to be a recipe for her long term happiness.
Why

Timeline:

Peter Townsend DOB 22/11/1914
Appointed temporary equerry to King George V1 1944
Divorce 1952
Air Attaché in Brussels 1953-1956

Princess Margaret DOB 21/8/1930
Statement renouncing Townsend 1955

Marie-Luce Jamagne DOB 1939
Married Townsend 1959 age 20
I think it must have been 1954 when he met Marie-Luce , when he was still involved with Margaret and she was just 14.

Very creepy.

And I've no sympathy for the romance with Margaret. An honourable man would have removed himself from her vicinity. I have sometimes wondered if he secretly wanted to stick it to the Monarchy, by seducing the young Princess.

Prince Philip first met the Queen when she was 13. Does that make him a paedophile? The definition is someone who likes sex with children. I assume PT didn’t have sex with his future wife whilst she was a child. Nor is there any evidence of attraction to children generally.

Prince Philip was just five years older than Her Majesty The Queen.
Due to the war they had very limited time together while she was so young.
My own mother married at 19, my father was 21, as Mum put it, if you wanted to have sex you had to get married. So people did get married at a younger age.
Which isn't the same as a married man of 30 hitting on a 14 year old, and then another 14 year old ten years later at the age of 40.

But fine. He was a thoroughly disreputable cad.

He married her and it was a very happy marriage.

Shamed - thanks for the details. That is really creepy, especially it happened more than once.

I always remember my Mum saying 'they should have let her marry Peter Townsend' - she was the same age as the Queen, and I suspect this view was pretty common amongst her generation.

It's only now that more information is available, it is clear that Margaret matured whilst he was in Belgium and realised that he wasn't the man she wanted to spend her life with, but used her Christianity and loyalty to the Crown as an excuse to back away, so that she didn't lose face.

Yes and it's always presented as "oh but he was a divorcee" what a shame that came between them and true love. But most of the affair was carried out while he was still married. Not a divorcee at all.
He/they were fortunate that his wife didn't go for full on revenge by citing Margaret as co-respondent in the divorce.

Harry's latest on Archwell is to lecture us on disinformation. Can he get more ridiculous?

With today's mores Townshend was a paedophile.

Paedophile is a word misused on Prince Andrew threads, to convey a serious dislike of him as an individual. I share that dislike but it has never been suggested that he was a paedophile.

*'a primary or exclusive sexual interest in prepubescent children aged 13 or younger.

Yes I see the word misused a
lot. Even about Peter Townsend on another thread.

A sorry, THIS thread!

My words were "borderline paedophile".

He was at best a cad and at worst a borderline paedophile.

As it happens I agree with you re Prince Andrew, I'm no fan but I don't think he deserves that label, and there is no evidence I have seen to suggest he does.

As for Peter Townsend, it's true, girls married younger then, as my mother did, and a bit of an age gap wasn't considered unacceptable.
There's no reason to believe anything sexual happened while the girls were under age.
So I'll go with cad. Which is probably kind. There's a kind of man who hits on teenagers, and massages his ego with their adoration. Not a paedophile, but I think these days we could talk grooming. And in his case I think a massive chip on the shoulder. Boosting their ego by having a much younger innocent young woman dancing attendance.