Heir and Spare

[Nard75]

Looking to the future and all the problems that have happened with Harry being the spare and being treated differently to his older brother. How do you think William will handle this with his 2 children seeing as he has spare X2. I feel William has been unsympathetic towards the position that Harry has been in so how will he feel when it is his 2 children are going through the same thing that their Uncle did.

The whole heir and spare thing will be very different with William’s children. Charlotte’s future spouse won’t be expected to be a working royal. Her children won’t automatically be titled. There will be much less pressure on that side of things and she could be a Princess Anne style working royal.

Louis will have the freedom that Edward had as he’s not the spare.

^ The mother of the child who gave the flowers to Meghan did a Twitter thread about it, explaining why the child asked Meghan to personally lay the flowers, and explaining what actually happened in the interaction with the aide and being very thankful to Meghan and the care Meghan took with her child.

Meghan did nothing wrong, the people most directly involved praised her and said she did nothing wrong. A child asked her a direct favour, the child wanted Meghan personally to put the flowers down. Kate was directly laying flowers down too. Meghan was trying to deliver her promise to a child, and a rude pushy aide refused to let her. Why shouldn't she be allowed to put the flowers down? Why does it matter? Just people looking for an excuse to trash her, as always.

Nice that the TV channels can be so sensitive.

You are very important, until the heir provides an heir. Then, you're redundant but still expected to devote your life to serving someone's else's interests. Who the fuck would do that?

Ladies and gentlemen, I give you, Princess Anne.

I don’t agree that the aide was rude or pushy. She could have given him the flowers and explained quietly she needed to lay a particular bunch at the end. The royals did the laying at the end as it’s logical. Harry himself had to explain to her the logic. Often there is logic at these things.

talking about an exchange Omid Scobie felt happy to post is not ‘bashing’ Meghan.

The difference is Peter and Zara are monarchs grandchildren, nephew / neice, cousin.

Charlotte and Louis are grandchildren, children, sibling.
I think they will be expected to go into military then become working Royals.

I don't think Meghan did anything wrong, and defended her on this point on another thread. But I don't think the aide was wrong either, royals do often hand flowers to aides, Harry and Meghan both subsequently did this on this occasion as well. I think he was trying to help, and so was she.

So Louis' kids' could be titled, but Charlotte's won't be? Is that because she's a girl? I thought now she can rank above her brother and they'd stopped all that discriminatory stuff. Although accepting a royal title can end badly.

Couldn't agree more! Looking at this from a fresh perspective. Enlightening. Merci!

One thing that Anne benefited from is that she was a girl growing up in an era where it was the norm for wealthy women to not work or have careers. That's not really the case anymore. Look at the scale of negative press the York sisters used to receive.

If Charlotte grew up to never earn her own living or have a career, and lived her whole life in a house William paid for, the press coverage would not be positive. Because expectations are different now.

It's sort of a shame that someone with Anne's formidable personality and work ethic didn't really have the opportunity to pursue a career outside of royal duties (apart from her years horse riding). She's near universally respected for her duty and the number of engagements she does, but surely had the potential to do so much more than shake hands and open supermarkets?

And wasn’t she absolutely marvellous during the whole time?
staying by her mother - that long journey first to Edinburgh and then down to London.
honest, forthright, hardworking and devoted.

completely admirable.

she is a credit to both her parents and a daughter anyone would be proud of.

I do think multiple Olympic medals and then four decades ish service to charities she loves passionately is not “sort of a shame”.

Reducing her to a woman that “opens supermarkets” reveals a fundamental lack of understanding of her role and life in service as a royal.

If Charlotte grew up to never earn her own living or have a career, and lived her whole life in a house William paid for, the press coverage would not be positive. Because expectations are different now.

i think that will depend on when her grandfather dies.

If she does very part time royal duties until 30 and doesn’t have a job then I’d agree.

If she ends up into full time royal duties from young then less so

However you spin it, hereditary monarchy is a messed up business, doubly so when as massively high profile and under the spotlight as the British monarchy. The question about Harry (and any other children not no1 or no2 in line to the throne) surely shouldn’t be “why did he want away?” but rather “why the hell would he want to stay?”.

This
The heir and the spare is such a horrible term.

Absolutely

You seam certain he’s had affairs. Has Kate as well? and Harry? He’s got the same father and grandfather.

Perhaps they have an open marriage and any extra curricular activity wouldn’t be a problem for them. None of our business either way really.

"The trouble between W & H started with Meghan, who William saw straight through! Harry didn't want to hear it and its got progressively worse from there."

And you have iron clad proof of this? No, thought not...

But if you go back a century or so, actually there were heirs that weren’t great. Not quite sure how they were portrayed in the media at the time.

Victoria preferred Vicky her eldest daughter to Edward, George V had an older brother who from all accounts was fairly unpleasant and obviously there were massive doubts about Edward VIII. And in the last 120 years (say 5 monarchs) the ‘spare’ has been needed twice.

That’s a myth perpetuated during George’s own reign. He was a very insecure, shy man who felt he never lived up. The brother, whose name escapes me, was wildly popular and apparently a very good egg who looked to be shaping up well.

but then so did Edward VIiI who was very popular and a real man of the people…their were other problems.

I think Bea and Eug just moved out to get in line to go with the cars. They moved slightly back. I can’t imagine any other reason.

It seems to have been toxic between the Q and Margaret and with William and Harry, but not between Charles and Anne. Perhaps it's easier with opposite sex siblings?

But I also remember a couple of royal biographer types saying the boys were raised to be very equal - which you would think was good - but it meant it was a nasty shock for Harry when he came out of the military, and William was pretty much his boss. They shared an office and team, and Harry's interests had to be run past him so there wasn't a clash.

I think life will be easier if Charlotte grows up understanding that while they are equals as people, George will be her boss one day. It doesn't seem to bother Anne.

There's absolutely no evidence for it. Maybe he did of course, but there is no reason to think so.

100%

Although to a large extent I agree with your point that there seems to be a problem with the second son (or daughter), in the case of the late Queen's father this was obviously not the case. It was actually Edward VIII who was the scandalous one, having the affaires, not wanting to do all the 'work' of a royal, but have all the fun, etc.
However, we should also remember that the Duke of Gloucester (late Queen's cousin, who was 5th in line to the throne when he was born, now 30th), actually had a proper career as an architect. He was a second son, and only became the Duke after his elder brother and then father died (1972, and then 1974). He is someone I am full of admiration for, because he is one of the few who actually did work, and his Danish wife was formerly a secretary, I think.
So, it is possible for a second son (or daughter), especially in this day and age, to have a proper job.
I think the main thing is that as the 'spare', P. Harry had to undertake some Royal 'duties', in case something had happened to William, and he would know all about being Royal.
I always understood that Diana insisted on them being treated equally, and even spoiled him, for the simple reason he was second.
Sadly, Harry could have been a huge benefit to the RF, like P. Anne is.