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The royal family

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Tom Bower's book on Meghan Markle

1000 replies

SmileyFaces12 · 13/07/2022 10:49

It's out next week, titled 'Revenge'. I've ordered it already!

OP posts:
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50
Roussette · 20/07/2022 09:16

Samcro · 20/07/2022 08:57

@MaulPerton so tell me what do the duchess of York do`/ duke of York?
surely if you have decided that the duke and duchess of Sussex should not retain their titles, you have to look at others.
also surely they will then become known as Prince Harry and Princess Henry(as he will always be a Prince) so M will be called Princess Meghan. would you prefer that?

Absolutely sod all. Except SF brings out Mills & Boon books and publicises them on the Royal Lodge 98acre estate where she lives in splendour, courtesy of us. Andrew does nothing quite obviously, except brood about how wronged he is as an honourable man. Oh, and probably drive round the Royal Estate in his £230,000 custom green Bentley. That we paid for.

Roussette · 20/07/2022 09:18

notanotheroneagain · 20/07/2022 09:15

BTW, someone came on here and put up a doctored video of H&M holding hands.
Here is the undoctored version. Let's try to keep MN not as bottom feeding as BG, shall we.

twitter.com/InvictusbyPepp/status/1549302670753775618

Thank you for that. I knew I'd seen something like this elsewhere and thought the clip on here was weird. They look happy enough to me, chatting away like a normal couple and both of them reaching out for each other.

HeddaGarbled · 20/07/2022 09:22

@notanotheroneagain

Thank you - that is completely different than the one posted earlier!

Samcro · 20/07/2022 09:33

Roussette · 20/07/2022 09:16

Absolutely sod all. Except SF brings out Mills & Boon books and publicises them on the Royal Lodge 98acre estate where she lives in splendour, courtesy of us. Andrew does nothing quite obviously, except brood about how wronged he is as an honourable man. Oh, and probably drive round the Royal Estate in his £230,000 custom green Bentley. That we paid for.

exactly. its very telling that M gets more hate than the yorks.

Roussette · 20/07/2022 09:39

Samcro · 20/07/2022 09:33

exactly. its very telling that M gets more hate than the yorks.

I just don't understand why there isn't a massive outcry on MN about PA and wife still retaining their titles. There is for H&M, yet every time the Yorks are mentioned it's called whataboutery.
Cue someone saying... start a thread then. I do. I have done. Tumbleweed

Cue someone saying... well they haven't left, and they don't criticise the RF.
Course they don't. It's their neverending meal ticket and gravy train. How can they live in luxury and splendour on massive Royal Estates without taxpayer and Mummy's funding, they won't bite the hand that feeds them.

notanotheroneagain · 20/07/2022 10:13

HeddaGarbled · 20/07/2022 09:22

@notanotheroneagain

Thank you - that is completely different than the one posted earlier!

Yes, because the first one was doctored to make it look like Harry doesn't want to be held by MM. They spliced together Harry' serious face as he listened, and made it look like he was angry at the handholding.

notanotheroneagain · 20/07/2022 10:15

Roussette · 20/07/2022 09:39

I just don't understand why there isn't a massive outcry on MN about PA and wife still retaining their titles. There is for H&M, yet every time the Yorks are mentioned it's called whataboutery.
Cue someone saying... start a thread then. I do. I have done. Tumbleweed

Cue someone saying... well they haven't left, and they don't criticise the RF.
Course they don't. It's their neverending meal ticket and gravy train. How can they live in luxury and splendour on massive Royal Estates without taxpayer and Mummy's funding, they won't bite the hand that feeds them.

This.

KatharineofAragon · 20/07/2022 10:22

Samcro · 20/07/2022 08:57

@MaulPerton so tell me what do the duchess of York do`/ duke of York?
surely if you have decided that the duke and duchess of Sussex should not retain their titles, you have to look at others.
also surely they will then become known as Prince Harry and Princess Henry(as he will always be a Prince) so M will be called Princess Meghan. would you prefer that?

They can be Harry and Meghan. US citizens and D list ‘celebrities’. They despise the RF. They’ve made that clear so they should stick to their principles and stop using their status as a platform to make money.

I really don’t understand why the Duchess of York hasn’t had her title removed either. She has tried to trade on her connections for years. If she had moved with Andrew to the US and slagged off his family on TV she probably would have lost her title. Quite rightly. Eugenie and Beatrice are part of the family and have good relationships with all as far as we know. Archie and Lilibet have no relationship with the wider family. Harry and Meghan are completely removed now from everything and just use the titles to benefit themselves.

Tillsforthrills · 20/07/2022 10:27

notanotheroneagain · 20/07/2022 08:58

Your question is disingenuous, because it has been answered plenty of times.

If a person tells you, my father abused me, you don't say to them, no don't tell anyone because he's been feeding you and taking care of you. You also don't say give me the details and show me the exact things he did and show me positions etc. You don't also then go on and tell the victims to change their name just because they don't want to be associated with their parent - why should they be the ones who relinquish their identifier.

You also don't go ask the parent, they say recollections vary' and you say, see there, all done, it never happened.

The victim is telling you about the abuse and what took place, more than anything they would like the parent to change and not do the same to others, maybe grandchildren etc. (this is not just an example of sexual abuse, mind you, could be any sort of abuse, wether emotional, verbal etc.).

Why don’t you answer the original question without going into all that?

Roussette · 20/07/2022 10:31

If she had moved with Andrew to the US and slagged off his family on TV she probably would have lost her title

She slagged off the institution endlessly. She might have avoided the racist bit obviously, but she was derogatory about the whole set up. She escaped doing this because there was no SM at the time like there is now.

As I said in a previous long post, if they didn't have their titles, it wouldn't make a jot of difference. They'd still be known, they'd still be doing what they do. There'd still be threads on here binning them off.

Tillsforthrills · 20/07/2022 10:31

notanotheroneagain · 20/07/2022 10:15

This.

This is also true.

If PA is no longer ‘serving’ there’s no way he should enjoy the privileges associated with his titles. I don’t think M&H should either but on balance they haven’t had to pay out millions because they’re a pedophile which is so much worse than anything M&H have ever done.

So absolutely keep the same energy for PA! And I am really not a fan of M&H but fair is fair.

Roussette · 20/07/2022 10:32

p.s. SF did two Oprah's and wrote a book about it all.

38DegreesAndRising · 20/07/2022 10:54

Roussette · 20/07/2022 09:10

I think what would be a very helpful addition to this debate is if anyone could lay out a clear and logical argument as to why H&M should retain royal titles now

Apart from why should they, and the obvious and very relevant fact that the disgraced Royal still his has, plus ex wife.... my question to you is.. what difference would it make?

They will still be known.

In the US they will carry on calling them Prince Harry, Duchess Meghan, Princess Meghan, with or without titles. Absolutely nothing will change. They will still give talks, they will still be prominent, they will still carry on doing what they're doing.

And detractors of them will find something else to go on and on about that they should or shouldn't do. Goal post moving has been massive all the way through.

Would you all not put threads up if they were just plain Harry and Meghan, funding themselves and living their lives doing what they want? NO NO NO.

Because Harry will forever be connected to the RF in a big way by dint of being either grandson, son or brother of the Monarch. And these threads will forever be criticising them... because - as I said years ago - they can't do a thing right for some.

Re: my question to you is.. what difference would it make?

I think it would make a huge and symbolic difference, especially in the UK.
So why won't they do it? No one can who defends them can - or wishes to - answer that question.

The answers are all whataboutery and avoidance.

38DegreesAndRising · 20/07/2022 10:54

Excuse my typo above..

No one who defends them can - or wishes to - answer that question.

Samcro · 20/07/2022 11:00

The answers are all whataboutery and avoidance
you can't discuss them having their titles taken away without "whataboutery"
when you have a Duke who has done actual wrong still keeping his title.
anyways the only title they could give up /have taken away is the Duke
stuff. he will always be a prince.

Serenster · 20/07/2022 11:01

Once again this thread is throwing up some extraordinary double standards and confirmation bias.

Let’s start with Tom Bower. He has never been a “tabloid hack” as people on this thread are so quick to label him. He is a seasoned investigative reporter (25 years at e BBC, mostly on Panorama) who has been writing biographies of controversial and powerful preople since the 1980s. The subjects of those biographies, well used to strictly controlling their public image, by and large did not like his books (sound familiar?).

Several have sued him for defamation – including Richard Branson, Richard Desmond, Conrad Black. None have succeeded with their actions. Just a reminder – you win a claim of defamation by proving that the things you wrote are true. So the lawsuits you refer to actually show he can prove everything he wrote, not that he’s a liar (quite the reverse!).

There is one error that he has corrected in his entire writing career – he made false allegation that the group Palestinian Return Centre was known to blame the Jews for the holocaust in his book on Jeremy Corbyn (note – he didn’t make this up – he was repeating an allegation that had been made in the House of Lords). He apologised for this and removed the statement from his book. The PRC sued the Mail, who had serialised the novel – doubtless because they had deeper pockets.

So, one proven error in a 40 year career writing biographies of the rich and powerful, many of whom have challenged him in court. That’s not exactly a spotty record. But apparently, he’s given up all his principles now and everything he has written in this book is a lie. How likely is that?

Even if Tom Bower did write for the tabloids, that’s also not a reason to immediately decide everything he has discovered is a lie. Those who constantly bring up Prince Andrew on this thread - how on earth do you think we know about his relationship with Epstein, the photo with Virginia Giuffre, the money lent to Fergie? It’s because of the investigative reporters at the tabloids, that’s why. How can you explain why everything they write against Prince Andrew is clearly true, but everything they write against the Sussexes is clearly a lie? Why any criticism of Virginia Giuffre was beyond the pale, as her account was clearly completely true, but those who spoke to the Times about being bullied by the Duchess of Sussex were incompetent/liars/jealous/lazy/racist?

This doublethink is even more incredible to me because it relies on taking everything said and done by the Duchess – who for literally years has been relying on a Hollywood PR firm to “craft” her image 👀 – as gospel truth even when it is provably not the case. So the Hollywood PR firm and their adherents is are pumping out puff and misinformation, and some of the most respected investigative journalists around are scum and liars.

Why? Because they are trying to make money of her? Who’s also making money out of their position? Why, that would be the Sussexes. Propaganda over investigative journalism – that’s the choice some of you are going for (but only when it come to the Sussexes. Lord knows you’d never fall for the PR put out by anyone else, you regularly tell us that).

notanotheroneagain · 20/07/2022 11:01

Tillsforthrills · 20/07/2022 10:27

Why don’t you answer the original question without going into all that?

Read it again.

That is the answer. All of it.

Racism is a type of abuse and should be treated as seriously as other types of abuse. I think that is where the problem is with people who are dismissive of it.

And I see the person who asked the question is now sidestepping it again, so they can come back here saying their question was never answered.

Roussette · 20/07/2022 11:01

38DegreesAndRising · 20/07/2022 10:54

Re: my question to you is.. what difference would it make?

I think it would make a huge and symbolic difference, especially in the UK.
So why won't they do it? No one can who defends them can - or wishes to - answer that question.

The answers are all whataboutery and avoidance.

OK I'll answer that.

It's the same as before and you haven't answered my questions. It would make no difference. Why should they. Other disgraced member of the RF hasn't. And so on.
What a symbolic difference it would make if HMQ started the ball rolling with PA. Call it whataboutery if you like, I don't care because it is relevant.

No avoidance here.

38DegreesAndRising · 20/07/2022 11:06

notanotheroneagain · 20/07/2022 08:58

Your question is disingenuous, because it has been answered plenty of times.

If a person tells you, my father abused me, you don't say to them, no don't tell anyone because he's been feeding you and taking care of you. You also don't say give me the details and show me the exact things he did and show me positions etc. You don't also then go on and tell the victims to change their name just because they don't want to be associated with their parent - why should they be the ones who relinquish their identifier.

You also don't go ask the parent, they say recollections vary' and you say, see there, all done, it never happened.

The victim is telling you about the abuse and what took place, more than anything they would like the parent to change and not do the same to others, maybe grandchildren etc. (this is not just an example of sexual abuse, mind you, could be any sort of abuse, wether emotional, verbal etc.).

What? !
I have no idea what is it you are trying to articulate here.
But by all means don't answer the question.

It seems no one ever does.

Roussette · 20/07/2022 11:06

38DegreesAndRising · 20/07/2022 11:06

What? !
I have no idea what is it you are trying to articulate here.
But by all means don't answer the question.

It seems no one ever does.

Yes they do.

You just don't like the answers you're reading.

notanotheroneagain · 20/07/2022 11:10

@Serenster you can write as many long essays as you wish.
We just literally linked his lies. The fact that the tabloids who printed his lies does not absolve him in the list bit, just shows he can hide behind others if they let him, just like the times just did right now without checking. So the Times will have to apologise and you will come on here and say, see he did not lie because it was the times who apologised.

VG showed her face and account.
So much so that Andrew had to pay her off.
Supposed 'victims' of MM did not. They are not even named, nor have they written any accusations, just Knauf gossiping about MM and passing on his lies to Valentine. Infact, other than JK saying it, they may not even exist.
Not only does VG exist, she even has a picture showing her with Andrew, then she went and made a proper formal complaint going to the law and court - FBI involvement, everything.

Yet you want to equate the two.

38DegreesAndRising · 20/07/2022 11:12

Roussette · 20/07/2022 11:06

Yes they do.

You just don't like the answers you're reading.

If they do then what is the answer?
Why won't H&M relinquish the titles they so loathe?

I have no skin in this game, not a royalist, but am intrigued at how difficult it is to get a straight answer on this.
A search online implies it's tied up with the Netflix 100mm deal, which would be a logical answer. And who would blame them. I'll assume that is the why, seeing as no one has anything else to add.

Serenster · 20/07/2022 11:15

We just literally linked his lies

No, you didn’t (you posted a load of obfuscatory guff that doesn’t actually disprove the truth of anything published to date - the only thing that has now been refuted is the fact that the VF journalist reported Meghan saying about his stutter).

But I know from past experience that we can point that out til we’re blue in the face and you’ll never change your view, so I won’t waste my time. Let’s just say opinions differ. 😄

Roussette · 20/07/2022 11:15

Why won't H&M relinquish the titles they so loathe?

Why don't you read my posts?

You might not like my answers but at least read them. They have not said 'we loathe the titles of Duke and Duchess of Sussex.
Not that I'm aware anyway.

notanotheroneagain · 20/07/2022 11:20

That is their identity. Who they are. Just as your name was given.

It does not matter why they want to retain it. Why do you want to retain your name? Your DC names etc. Why does anyone you know retain their name?

Why should they give up their identifier would be the question.

I say this, because they do not hate the RF, as always said on here. They never said that. They clearly said they have nothing against the queen, they made that clear. They did however, criticise the people around her - and I assume that means the likes of Edward Young (who denied Harry security and seeing his grandmother) and other 'sources' who lie about him. Why would he make these individuals happy by giving up his dukedom. Now you are saying they must throw this supposed gift back in her face.

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