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The royal family

Queen backs Camilla as future Queen Consort

262 replies

SnottyLottie · 05/02/2022 22:07

news.sky.com/story/queen-reveals-sincere-wish-that-camilla-becomes-queen-consort-when-charles-is-king-in-platinum-jubilee-message-12533906

How do you think this will go down? And will the British public ever accept Camilla as Queen Consort?

OP posts:
smilesy · 10/02/2022 10:19

Maybe the problem was that Charles and Diana should never have married in the first place and that the marriage would have broken down anyway. Diana was not happy and she too had affairs. As you say, Camilla was married to a man she thought she loved. It was Charles who had Camilla in his mind, so her “presence” in the marriage was an emotional connection that Charles had to her. This does not make her a “home-wrecker”, which is a horrible way to refer to someone anyway. If the “home” is happy and stable, then no third party can “wreck” it. Sometimes things are just not right in the first place.

DePfeffoff · 10/02/2022 10:20

@Monopolyiscrap

I think having a man as the Head of the Church of England who had affairs while married and is now married to a mistress, is not okay.
Do you know how the Church of England came into being?
Monopolyiscrap · 10/02/2022 10:21

@DePfeffoff no I am stupid.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 10/02/2022 10:21

She was only one of his lovers - The Crown has airbrushed out the other

Out of interest, are you thinking of Kanga or another one?

notanotheroneagain · 10/02/2022 10:22

Harry's cousins have a similar deal.
The Queen's own cousins have the same deal. Prince Michael of Kent and his wife were working royals, who have their own private company, write books under HRH title and do commentary on royal life, history etc. No, it has nothing to do with modernising, but that is what everyone kept on saying anyway, that this is a new role they are carving, trying to modernise etc.
And yes, something for another thread, but still relevant.

Just because Diana said something, or because The Crown hinted at it, does not mean it is true.
I will believe Diana who was there, and living that life. Thank you very much.
Were you there?

Monopolyiscrap · 10/02/2022 10:22

The reformation was a long time ago. Unlike those claiming that Diana dying is ancient history.

Or are you really saying that because of the reformation, a modern Head of the church can do whatever he wants?

Monopolyiscrap · 10/02/2022 10:26

I don't want to be banned, so will just drop this article in.

www.townandcountrymag.com/the-scene/g9158708/prince-charles-rumored-affairs/

Because you can say whatever you want about Harry and Meghan, but not about other RF members.

AuntieStella · 10/02/2022 10:32

I will believe Diana who was there, and living that life. Thank you very much

So you'll believe that she saw Camilla as only a decoy - as she left evidence to that effect with her lawyer

ajandjjmum · 10/02/2022 10:35

@EdithWeston

Camilla was not just simply this. She was Charles lover, ever present

She was only one of his lovers - The Crown has airbrushed out the other.

And of course Diana was so 'terrorised' that she told to her lawyer in 1995 (meeting, and a note in her handwriting) that Camilla was only a decoy for his real intention.

I assume you're referring to Tiggy.

Has it not been since established that she based this belief on what was said/shown her by Martin Bashir, which has since been proven as utter tosh.

As the boys, particularly Harry, remained very close to Tiggy (may be a godparent for Archie?), we can assume that it is known to be tosh within the family.

ajandjjmum · 10/02/2022 10:36

[quote Monopolyiscrap]@IcedPurple I know the Royal Family want us to believe that Charles and Camilla were only friends while Charles tried to make his marriage work. There is plenty of Palace PR giving that viewpoint.
The Crown strongly implied that was not the case as Diana was clear that was not the case.[/quote]
The Crown cannot be relied upon to be factual - much of it is total fiction.

Monopolyiscrap · 10/02/2022 11:14

No it is fictionalised. Totally different. Broadly based on true events.
And in reality the RF got off lightly. The episode about Mountbatten for example could have been much more shocking.

ajandjjmum · 10/02/2022 11:19

You're playing with words. Much of it is based upon the writer's interpretation of what happened at various times. I'm sure there are elements that are true/very close to the truth, but you can't rely on it as 'fact'.

smilesy · 10/02/2022 11:26

Broadly based on true events.. “Broadly based” means that it’s likely that the “details” may well have been embroidered for entertainment purposes.

Monopolyiscrap · 10/02/2022 11:35

The exact details of conversations are not known. So it can never be a fact, it is always a fictionalised account. Very exact unimportant details may not be correct. But all the general facts are true.

ajandjjmum · 10/02/2022 11:40

But all the general facts are true.

That's rubbish - none of us know, we weren't there. You are saying that the writers know every conversation/action that occurred between an extended group of people, over decades. Simply not possible.

It's entertainment, and was written as such.

Monopolyiscrap · 10/02/2022 11:41

Some scenes are created to tell facts. For example, Prince Philip's mother Princess Alice did not give an in-depth interview to a journalist named John Armstrong at The Guardian. But that scene allows us to know more about Alice than would be possible in an episode showing what happened at the time.
The RF PR points out these things to pretend that the general facts are wrong, but they are not.

Monopolyiscrap · 10/02/2022 11:42

@ajandjjmum I specifically said that no one knows exactly what was said. Even the people who said things won't now remember what they said.

ajandjjmum · 10/02/2022 11:47

But you also said 'the general facts are true'. You nor I can possibly know this.

Monopolyiscrap · 10/02/2022 11:51

But we do. Check the general facts portrayed in the Crown.
So the example I gave, Alice did not give that interview. It was a device to tell viewers her fascinating story quickly. But the story of her life portrayed is true.
This is the same as any film about real people. No one knows exact conversations, and at times filming scenes in a documentary style would make for an extremely long drama. So journalistic devices are used.

smilesy · 10/02/2022 12:03

You said up thread “ The Crown strongly implied that was not the case as Diana was clear that was not the case”
That is not a “general fact”. That is a detail that has been included as a “fact” in a fictionalised drama. Diana talking about three people in the marriage may well have been referring to Tiggy L-B and that was something that was fed to her by Martin Bashir as PP have said. Camilla was never mentioned by name.

Monopolyiscrap · 10/02/2022 12:14

Camilla was widely reported in the gossip column at the time to be having an affair with Charles.
I think it is true, but until the hacked phone calls, no one can provide proof that would stand up in court. Not unusual for affairs though.

Cabriolelegs99 · 10/02/2022 12:18

Anyone interested should read 'The Power, Passion and Defence of Prince Charles' by Tom Bower.

I read it with a fairly sceptical eye, but if any of you, like me, are veering towards republicanism, then this book will give you the final push.

There are some interesting snippets in it relating to Camilla. I think the great British public have really been duped about her true character and there was a reason behind her being dubbed "The Rottweiler", beyond the obvious I mean!

For example, it was allegedly Camilla, not Charles, who found and hired the spin doctor Mark Bolland, to "rehabilitate" their image. And it was Mark Bolland who, in rebuilding C & C's public image, allegedly trashed Diana's in the process. Many of the negative stories you hear being repeated and believed about Diana today were allegedly originally spun by Mark Bolland. (Diana obviously had her faults but they were hugely amplified and distorted in the press.) All this stuff about her loving pop music when she preferred classical and was a reasonably good classical pianist. Even worse were the stories about her mental stability. It's the oldest game in the book isn't it? When Victorian gentleman wanted to rid themselves of their wives, they belittled them, declared them mad, and locked them up! The whole process was imho pretty despicable. And Charles is on record as having paid for this PR spin and let it happen. Remember this man was allegedly endorsing the briefing against the mother of his children! Bolland even allegedly used Prince William as a porn in this process and PW was allegedly pretty unhappy when stories about him and Harry meeting Camilla privately to talk about a charity event - and the occasion going swimmingly - were somehow "leaked" to the press. It's all so shoddy and doesn't show Charles or Camilla in a good light at all.

Of course we have no choice in who becomes our King & Queen, as that is how a monarchy works, but come the day of the coronation, I for one won't be cheering them on. It's not really about the marriage breakdown really. That happens to many people. It's more about how a young woman was used and abused by the institution. And what was done to Diana and how Charles & Camilla behaved throughout and afterwards, and how how he allegedly briefed friends and employees to behave and brief against her.

smilesy · 10/02/2022 12:20

Camilla was widely reported in the gossip column at the time to be having an affair with Charles.

Err gossip is just that. It’s not fact. So by implication, “The Crown” is also not dealing in facts 🤷‍♀️ But the point still is that the world and public opinion have moved on.

ajandjjmum · 10/02/2022 12:24

Hugo Vickers' article on The Crown - points out facts vs. truth. Interesting read.

The lavish sets and gripping storylines have, once again, hooked the nation. The third series of The Crown, which covers the tumultuous, modernising years from 1964 to 1977, also has a new A-list cast, with Oscar-winning Olivia Colman taking on a starring role as the Queen.

There are dramatic, memorable scenes: the Queen at Winston Churchill’s deathbed, the Monarch apparently faking emotion at the scene of the Aberfan colliery disaster, a Russian spy at the heart of the Monarchy, political conspiracies to overthrow Harold Wilson’s government and the blossoming romance between a young Prince Charles and Camilla Shand.

Enjoyable drama it may be. But there are grave problems with the sweeping liberties taken by The Crown. For as the popular Netflix series creeps closer to the present day, it is important to consider just how closely the storylines resemble real events.

A little poetic licence can dramatise otherwise staid facts. But when those facts are distorted so convincingly that viewers come to accept it as truth, then it becomes problematic, for historians as well as for the Monarchy.

The Crown, after all, portrays real people whom the writers frequently place in fictional situations. There is often no regard to the facts. Events often happen in the wrong sequence and this is intentional. The film-makers need to create conflict and dramatic viewing, and they seek it even where none existed.

The truth, admittedly, might be a little dull. In the first series, an entire episode is devoted to Prince Philip refusing to kneel before his wife at the Coronation. The reality is that he was perfectly happy to do so, but such compliance would not have sustained 45 minutes of prime-time television.

The second series takes two truthful events and links them together to create a completely false storyline. The Queen did entertain America’s First Lady, Jackie Kennedy, at a dinner at Buckingham Palace in 1961. It is also correct that, shortly afterwards, she made a courageous trip to Ghana, a country which was then verging on becoming a dictatorship.

The Queen’s visit was designed – successfully, as it turned out – to keep Ghana in the Commonwealth.

But The Crown’s version is very different. It suggests the Queen, who had felt herself in Mrs Kennedy’s glamorous shadow, had planned the trip, knowing it would receive significant publicity, in order to upstage her.

Without doubt the meanest example involves Prince Philip’s time at the Scottish boarding school, Gordonstoun. The storyline has the young Prince punching another schoolboy when he did no such thing, and having his half-term cancelled as a result – when half-terms did not exist.

The plot goes on to claim that his detention in the Highlands was why he did not travel to visit his pregnant sister Cecile in the German city of Darmstadt – and why she, in turn, took a fatal decision to fly to London instead.

The facts are impossibly tragic. Cecile died with her family when their plane crashed at Ostend in heavy fog. Adding to the unimaginable heartache for Philip, her baby boy had been born during the trauma of the accident and died alongside them. According to Anne Griffiths, Philip’s archivist, being told this by his headmaster was one of the worst moments in his life. But to cook up a scene, as the creators of The Crown did, in which Prince Philip’s father blames him for the deaths, is horrible.

The facts show that Philip never had any plans to fly to Darmstadt – and Cecile was coming to London anyway to attend a wedding. In reality, Philip and his father travelled to the funeral in Darmstadt together, which must have been the saddest journey.

The unswerving message from the series is that the Queen and some Royals are cold and bound by tradition, while others, such as Princess Margaret, are to be applauded for choosing to live for love. It is even suggested that Prince Charles, consumed by his affair with Camilla, admired the disgraced Duke of Windsor – who abdicated in 1936 to marry American divorcee Wallis Simpson – and considered following his example.

So it goes on, travesty after travesty, with viewers being brainwashed into thinking this version of events is what truly happened.

I wonder if there is a subplot here, one which passes unnoticed to the casual viewer. The show’s creator, Peter Morgan, once confessed to being a staunch republican. He has since backtracked, claiming that working on The Crown has turned him into a firm Royalist. But, surrounded by so much obfuscation, who knows what is true any more?

Now, when called upon to confirm whether a certain storyline in the show is true or not, I have only one reply: ‘Don’t tell me what it is. I can tell you it is false.’

notanotheroneagain · 10/02/2022 12:26

Can people go and listen to Diana in her own words please. She was talking about Camilla. Stop trying to rewrite history.

While like most movies, and paper articles even, no one except the two people in the room can know what the exact words used were. The Crown in this case base their story on Diana's words about them going on their honeymoon, the jewellery he made for Camilla, that Diana had initially thought was hers etc. So you cannot call this fiction.

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