Will Beatrice and Eugenie become full time royals?

[Flynnqwer]

When they’re Counsellors of State?

Currently the four Counsellors are Charles, William, Harry and Andrew. When Charles accedes the throne Beatrice will take her place as counsellor, and when William accedes so will Eugenie. Or perhaps they will sooner than that given that Harry and Andrew can, in reality, not represent the Queen any more.

Will they become full time royals at that point? Currently William and Kate are the only working royals of their generation. I know Charles is keen on a slimmed down monarchy, but William will need support from his own generation in the absence of Harry.

The elephant in the room is not being mentioned on this thread.

First of all, Andrew stepping away makes no real difference. Most of his engagements in the court circular were jollies. So visiting golf courses, attending dinners for the equivalent of Rotary clubs. If no one does these things it makes zero difference. And as far as I can see no one has for two years. The only person it affects is Andrew.

Secondly Harry and Meghan. Some of their engagements are still being carried out by them. Harry still has Invictus and they are both still Patrons of some charities. No one else needs to cover these. The other duties have not been done by them for over 2 years. If they were essential they would be picked up by someone else. If they haven't been they can be ignored.

The real elephant in the room is the Queen. Until recent months the Queen regularly did more engagements than William and Kate combined. Her ill health and eventual death does leave an enormous gap. It is well documented that the Queen and Anne do a lot of engagements. The trouble is this sense of duty does not appear to have been inherited. That is the real issue.
The Royal Family need either a smaller number of members doing a lot of engagements, or lots of members regularly doing a few engagements. It will soon have neither. That is the issue. But they wont admit that as it draws attention to the lack of engagements carried out by some others, especially William and Kate who outside royal tours average one engagement a week - often a meeting or a phone call, although also high profile things such as Kate playing piano at the carol concert, or the Bond premiere.
It is a conundrum the Royal Family don't seem able to know how to fix.
In terms of when they start being full time Royals, Ane started at 18 and the Queen became teh Queen at 25. There is no need to wait until they are 36 years old before beginning to work.

It looks like plans are afoot to boot Harry and Andrew out of the counsel anyway.

www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/officials-mull-ways-of-axing-andrew-and-harry-as-counsellors-of-state/ar-AASSxxq?ocid=msedgntp

Time to scale back no need for them.

@Comedycook

Handy they were very rich though

Very bitchy comment. They're the Queens granddaughters, who did you think they'd marry? They mix in certain circles don't they? Most of us marry those in similar social classes to ourselves.

Goodness that’s a bit of an overreaction

@AllThePogs

Well this is the big question

If the RF follow the Cambridge model of part time until 35 and then full time but with plenty of time for family life then they need more bodies.
I said in another thread, there is nothing wrong with prioritising family life. However if the slimmed down firm rule is enforced it is likely Edward, Sophie and Anne will have to do even more than they are currently doing and for at least a decade.

So either we slim down the RF and everyone works harder or we accept that we pay the same money and they do less. The second option is tricky since the tabloids have now conditioned the public post sussex and Andrew to question the value and worthiness of the family.

Absolutely right that the work horses of the enterprise - Anne, Charles and Queen are elderly. Edward and Sophie don't have an enviably position.

But I guess if you believe in the monarchy you believe that the heirs are inherently more valuable and deserving. So maybe Edward and Sophie will be thrilled to do more work and have less time with their child to allow the william and kate to have more time with their children.

It is ordained by God after all, their children are less important.

Princess Anne is 71, so I think her capacity to absorb more work is limited - I bet she'll get the Royal Marines though!

The Wessexes are 57/56, so yes I think they can be workhorses for at least another decade, probably longer, as I expect George will go to university and then in to the Forces for a while (as a kind of finishing school, even if it's not quite his thing). So even a slow start to duties for him is 15 years off.

The York princesses won't get anything (or anything much) extra until after all legal proceedings involving their father are concluded and only then if they were not caught up in any part of it themselves (mutterings that testimony might be sought from at least one of them, and who knows what that might cover)

*their children being less important = wessex children

[quote nottodaybatman]@AllThePogs

Well this is the big question

If the RF follow the Cambridge model of part time until 35 and then full time but with plenty of time for family life then they need more bodies.
I said in another thread, there is nothing wrong with prioritising family life. However if the slimmed down firm rule is enforced it is likely Edward, Sophie and Anne will have to do even more than they are currently doing and for at least a decade.

So either we slim down the RF and everyone works harder or we accept that we pay the same money and they do less. The second option is tricky since the tabloids have now conditioned the public post sussex and Andrew to question the value and worthiness of the family.

Absolutely right that the work horses of the enterprise - Anne, Charles and Queen are elderly. Edward and Sophie don't have an enviably position.[/quote]
They won’t be able to allow the Cambridge children to follow the way William and Harry did. They’ll have to be full time from post Uni/military. It also meant that the younger two will, if the RF want to have the same number of engagements, will both be full time royals rather than part-time royals.

The age difference between Edward and Charles is going to be their best asset. It’s likely Edward and Sophie will bridge both Charles and William’s reign. If he wasn’t 16 years younger than Charles there would be a massive gap in the coverage.

I wouldn’t be remotely surprised if that’s the reason William seems so pissed off with his brother, and also Andrew - it’s changed the paths of his kids’ future roles quite considerably.

@nottodaybatman

But I guess if you believe in the monarchy you believe that the heirs are inherently more valuable and deserving. So maybe Edward and Sophie will be thrilled to do more work and have less time with their child to allow the william and kate to have more time with their children.

It is ordained by God after all, their children are less important.

And of course their DC are 14 and 18, so how much time spent with parents is quite different to when they are 3, 6 and 8.

I thought the York girls explicitly did not want to be working royals and Charles ruled them out pre the Andrew blow up. I cannot see them be added back in.

The fab 7
Q, Charles, will, Kate, Edward, Sophie and camilla

The average age is very high and the youngest have set their work benchmark low.

Andrew, Harry and Meghan would have covered around 900 engagements each at a basic level. With Harry likely increasing that number when his father became King - that would have been the planning that he, William and their wives would pick up more as Charles became King and more ‘big’ stuff that was the Queen’s or his needed covered.

Atm there are 8 full time royals - Charles, Camilla, Anne, William, Kate, Edward, Sophie & the Duke of Gloucester (he does way more, especially military stuff than is realised).
Plus 4 part timers - the Queen (I’m assuming she’s not going to go back to pre-covid levels of work at her age), the Duke of Kent, Princess Alexandra and the Duchess of Gloucester.

In 15 years when George is 23/24 the only full-timers are likely to be William, Kate, Edward and Sophie.
None of the current part time ones will be working and Charles, Camilla, Anne and the Duke of Gloucester will likely be part time at most. If they have that part time back up then they’ll probably not lose too many engagements. The big issue for them will be if they lose that because then their capacity, and therefore their visibility, wanes considerably.

Yes the wessex children are older.

But Edward and Sophie have grafted continuously and as they get older in the last few years with their youngest they will need to work even harder s, in the least glamorous events indefinitely. The Cambridge children will replace anne, C & C.

The wessexes don't have obvious replacements. I am not sure the Charles' plan is keen on paying for their children. So the wessex kids need to get jobs.

I have always felt the angry response to the Sussexes stepping back was to prevent anyone else trying to leave. @JustLyra I do think the Cambridge irritation was that they and their children would need to do more

If the RF follow the Cambridge model of part time until 35 and then full time but with plenty of time for family life then they need more bodies.

Only if they keep up the same level of total engagements though. What do other royal families do, in Spain, Denmark etc? I’m not an expert and could be wrong but I thought they had fewer “working” royals and I assume they just did fewer things in total, with the RF just generally having a smaller role? Or is that not right? Do they have extended family members involved?

I sense that Spain and the scandi RF put in the work. The scandals in Spain mean that letizia and Co have to work very hard and be seen to do so.

As mentioned previously some work looks distinctly unwork like to me. The bond thing, phone calls, the Wimbledon matches and golf jollies can easily be let go.

However the money needs to go down too.

In other RF they seem to educate the heirs with the role in mind - international relations and languages etc. We do not do that but equally we do not educate the spares to get jobs and support themselves. The British RF is set up to be reliant. Only the reigning monarch and the heir have any income everyone else is granted pocket money and a lease.

Personally I think wessex children should run far and fast from the RF. The sussexes were right to leave. It is unsustainable

I have always felt the angry response to the Sussexes stepping back was to prevent anyone else trying to leave. @JustLyra I do think the Cambridge irritation was that they and their children would need to do more

I don't think it was that they'll need to do more - the model was always that William, Harry and their spouses would pick up more and more as the Queen and Charles age. William and Kate will have full time schedules well planned (I think they'll all know well in advance what roles they'll take over as they go). The loss of Andrew, Harry and Meghan will mean tey have to do a wee bit more, but not a lot as they won't have capacity.

It will completely change the plans for their children though. All three will likely have to be full time in the way the Queen's children were and that will completely go against everything they've wanted to do with their kids so far.

There is a bit of an irony that it does seem to go like that - the Queen's generation were affected by the abdication which meant full time roles younger and siblings and cousins that wouldn't have been working royals had to be.
Then the Queen had enough children that it then seemed overkill when they had partners and children so vocalising about "slimming down" was needed.

Now it'll be back to young royals and discussions about cousins needed! Though I think of William's cousins the only ones that will do anything of note will be the Wessex children being heavily involved in the DofE scheme.

The main thing will depend entirely on how long Charles can be a full time royal for. If he matches his mother in longevity and stamina then it'll be one thing, but if he doesn't then it'll be more problematic. Especially as I doubt Camilla will continue doing many engagements if he goes first (either death or part-time role).

The Q and A and I believe do significantly more than W and K.

Either W & K step up now, or the Wessexes need to fill the gap. If M and H were still here, the Cambridge plan would be workable as it is they need to do more, much more especially without A.

The alternative is that the sovereign grant goes down. But Charles plan of slimming down never seemed to mention less money. Either way Charlotte and Louis will be heavily pressured to get out there to work and stay in the firm.
I am not the sure the public is happy to pay for a group of middle aged people to live in extreme comfort and be only seen for a tennis or football final.

Surely to goodness they must realise they need to slim down now?

I am not the sure the public is happy to pay for a group of middle aged people to live in extreme comfort and be only seen for a tennis or football final.

But that is only due to press coverage.
The press don't cover the thousands upon thousands of engagements that various royals attend every year.... I understand that both Anne and Charles each do almost 400 in a typical year, but how often do the press show them? However, because several million are watching the Cup Final or the Wimbledon Final, then all those people see that engagement (which is no doubt enjoyable if you are a tennis or football fan), then several million have noted that appearance, and not the visit to the event where only 200 people attended and the TV didn't report.

The cousins that haven't been mentioned Zara and Peter I think they could be asked to step up more than B & E.

The RF would probably rather PA is never mentioned B & E as working Royals means for years people would ask Who's B? Ah she's the Kings neice / cousin her Dad was the sex abuser. It would constantly come up.
Zara and Peter Kings nephew / neice cousin Oh their mum was a really hard worker.

Why should Zara and Peter step up? They have no titles, they don't do duties for the RF, I wouldn't if I were them!
They have privileged wonderful lives outside the scrutiny and horrible press over here.

Not saying that's right or wrong, but it's hardly something they'd want to do.

OK They don't have titles only because their mum didn't think they'd ever be full time working Royals.

Ann wouldn't have thought that one nephew would effectively abandoned ship, and two neices higher up the pecking order would be under a dirty big cloud.

They are the eldest of the Queens grandchildren and if it wasn't for the Ann being jumped by her younger brothers because of sex at the time they would be higher up.

It's all to do with whether they want that public life and I can't think for one minute... they would.

Peter is a businessman (he even get on the VIP fast lane for PPE!) and has a new girlfriend.
Zara can indulge her love of horses and live an enviable life doing her own thing..
Who'd want it??