Prince Andrew Thread 3

[Roussette]

Here is the previous thread...

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/the_royal_family/4443261-Prince-Andrew-Thread-2?watched=1&msgid=114083283#114083283

@SerendipityJane

Yes, it does come across as if they could be attempting a hatchet job

But surely it's conventional to try to hatchet your opponent, not your own client ?

I wonder if after all the Queen is paying Andrews legal team. They certainly seem to be confused about who they are supposed to be helping.

In the US it certainly is, particularly in a case like this where VG's credibility as a witness is central to her case. Absolutely normal for US lawyers to ask for disclosure of things from the other side whilst fighting against a request for a similar disclosure from their own side.

@OverByYer
2100

Both the Carol concert and Earthshot underperformed for viewing figures expected in their respective slots.
I think this is why ITV is feeling feisty.

I believe the Queen is paying the legal fees stating that A is undertaking this as a private individual is smoke and mirrors. In what other capacity would he defend himself. I guess it is the bat signal to the tabloids that they can mock A and know that the RF considers the mud as only sticking to him
I am not sure this logic works due to the question of who is paying the bill and also the fact that they are family until a week ago that family was being supportive.

I think it is more common to ask for disclosures in the US system, but that is just my hunch. I seems brutal though

I think the 'private' citizen' bit is firing a warning shot across the bow saying 'don't think you can come for the RF's money in the US to settle the case, he's a private citizen for this'
(whilst quietly paying his now £3million legal fees for him)

I am not lawyer no idea what it means for damages.
Only the Q and Charles have a proper private duchy income. Everyone else is a tenant in their respective castles and gets a stipend. Although the cash for honours, loan from paeophiles and Fake sheikh stuff proves they are all trying to hustle for cash.

However I don't think VG wants cash, she wants the truth and her day in court.

This is why I think that statement re private individuals is for the tabloids

@Roussette

The 'private citizen' thing was just a statement from the RF it doesn't hold any actual legal bearing does it ?

Of course, to a republican, the absolute bollocks of trying to pretend someone born to the title "His Royal Highness" (you didn't think that little pantomime you played out with the press would fool a Serendipity did you ?) is ever a "private citizen" (point of order, it's private subject. You need equality to be a citizen in my book) is merely fuel to the fire.

However, looking ahead, it seems there may be someone at the wheel on Team Peado. It's a little like winning the lottery, in that all the numbers would need to come up, but if the case against Prince Andrew does proceed, and if it were to be decided in favour of the plaintiff, and if there were to be certain revelations in it's course, then maybe it could become the stepping stone for some sort of further action against the Royal Family as somehow being complicit in the damage.

Much as there have been cases where families of victims have tried to sue gunmakers, people who sold guns etc etc.

I imagine the starting point would be "these events would never have happened if the Royal Family were doing their job".

Now I think that's a stretch (before anyone assumes it's my point of view). However as with most things Royal, it doesn't matter a flying fuck what I - or anyone here - thinks. The real question is would it have any hope in hells chance of even getting to a case ?

All complete speculation on my part - and probably way off the mark.

I don't know if any of you watched Ranvir on GMB this morning, but it was very moving. I won't say anymore as I know how touchy people get about spoilers. Also in the news today neither Andrew or Harry will be getting Jubilee medals

Now I think that's a stretch (before anyone assumes it's my point of view). However as with most things Royal, it doesn't matter a flying fuck what I - or anyone here - thinks. The real question is would it have any hope in hells chance of even getting to a case ?

In the UK, definitely not. In the US, I wouldn't put it beyond someone to try (although the only "someone" in a position to do so would appear to be VG) but I still don't think they would succeed. Simply being related isn't enough. They would have to show that the RF was complicit.

@prh47bridge

Now I think that's a stretch (before anyone assumes it's my point of view). However as with most things Royal, it doesn't matter a flying fuck what I - or anyone here - thinks. The real question is would it have any hope in hells chance of even getting to a case ?

In the UK, definitely not. In the US, I wouldn't put it beyond someone to try (although the only "someone" in a position to do so would appear to be VG) but I still don't think they would succeed. Simply being related isn't enough. They would have to show that the RF was complicit.

Hence the current manoeuvring.

If it can be established as a matter of fact that Prince Andrew can be a private citizen (we need to remember that no US law firm would have the faintest clue where to start with such matters. The UK has never been stupid enough to write it's constitution down) then the defence would be "he was a private citizen and thus disconnected from Royalty".

Obviously no UK court would accept that (we return to whose coat of arms the judges sit under). However it might secure some form of US judgement ????

Lots of question marks because this is all so much kite-flying from me.

He's still HRH though. No matter what the press may try to tell you.

Anyone remember the story of the Jian Ghomeshi? He was infamous for having a teddy hooked up with recording equipment to capture his encounters of assaulting women. He claims the assaults were consensual 🙄
Every time I see teddy bears on this thread I think of that.

I think the money is just not relevant here

I think statements in open court about the when, where, who and how are more powerful. The problem is that Andrew was undertaking these activities and friendships as a prince and trade envoy fully backed the RF and establishment

Saying he is a private citizen is a bit like the met saying Wayne couzens was a former police officer. It is tone deaf and irrelevant. Andrew was with these people because he was a prince.

And as always the problem for the RF is that its a family or a firm when convenient.
The household is exempt from discrimination legislation, apparently has a deeply ineffectual HR, and the CEO changes laws to benefit her organisation.

Outside of the UK most do not know or care about the inner workings of the RF. But GMA and fox news explaining that a British prince has no money or real skills but was appointed a trade envoy with no line manager or proper records kept.... its a disaster on Trump levels of classiness

This is all very interesting.

I just read somewhere that the RF had assets in the US and assumed the private citizen bit was about them being siezed or something.

I had a poke about and apparently (allegedly) the Queen owns a horse farm in Kentucky and prime real estate on Park Avenue in NYC.
We, the public, know nothing do we....

Wheeling out royal reporters to talk about who gets what trinket from mummy's dressing up box at her Jubilee in that context looks mad to anyone not British. The more random jubilee nonsense is thrown out there as news, the more the batshittery of the RF and tabloid coordination is obvious.
There has been a hell of a lot of deflection, distraction and arse covering for a private individual

I hope VG gets everything on the record in court. No more anonymous royal sources and deferential what about mummy op eds.

The problem is that Andrew was undertaking these activities and friendships as a prince and trade envoy fully backed the RF and establishment

Yes to this. When he was visiting Epstein he was on Trade Envoy business and was offered accommodation at the consul-general's residence which he declined in favour of Epstein's mansion.

The destruction of records I think is doubly helpful for all concerned.

No record of this RPO flagging concerns to line managers
No record of where Andrew was or wasn't
No record of whether it was RF or trade envoy "work" he was travelling for
No records of who paid or where the expenses were coded to
No HR issues recorded

^^ what normal business behaves like this

Hence why I think the money and damages were never the point.

I just read somewhere that the RF had assets in the US and assumed the private citizen bit was about them being seized or something.

I would be amazed to the extent of calling you a liar if you tried to tell me the RF did not have a portfolio of investments that spreads their risk - and that means they'd have US assets in the mix.

Whether they would be subject to a US court order is another matter. As is actually locating them. Much as I might conceivably hold Apple, IBM or Microsoft shares as part of my ISA, PEP, pension, or other investment vehicle. Plus shares in property or properties etc etc.

Yes Serendipity it's very opaque so we don't really know.

Batman totally agree with your post... how can you run something like this... no checks at all.
I did read somewhere that because of all the patronages of the best golf clubs in the world he had... he would always tack on a visit to them and a few days after Trade Envoy business... he would be golfing.
For him to lose that is sweet justice. He will never be able to do that again.
Good.

I hasten to add... I need to qualify 'Trade Envoy business'.

That was cosying up to the worst of the worst... despots and oligarchs and those extremely wealthy shady character he was in awe of. They must've seen him coming... a hapless easily impressed fool.

Well the QM died with large debts and they were settled by the Queen.

If huge damages were awarded, say $50m
(Made up) basically a number big enough that Andrew cannot pay. I can not see him hiding in plain sight in Windsor, Balmoral for Xmas etc with the RF repeatedly stating that they are not paying a penny towards it.

Will and Kate are constantly hinting they want to go the US for earth shot or some state visit or other. That is incompatible with Andrew not paying... basically this is bad for the firm and family.

I don't think W&K would have a successful US trip at all. Whatever anyone likes to think, M&H are popular in pockets of the US, and some people do think they have been treated badly by the RF

What with that... and the Andrew debacle... I think they'd be very sensible to steer clear for a while

Will and Kate are constantly hinting they want to go the US for earth shot or some state visit or other. That is incompatible with Andrew not paying... basically this is bad for the firm and family.

The prospect of any US politician making a media circus out of a royal visit in the event of Andrew losing and becoming liable and not paying is a hell of a risk to have to factor into the equation.

A bit of crossover from this thread to my line of work - York Racecourse are seeking permission from the Racing Authorities to alter the title of one of their races - The Duke of York Stakes. The race has no connection to Prince Andrew, having been first run in 1895 and named after the then Duke of York who went on to become George V, but they are keen to put distance between the two.

It’s complicated to explain why they can’t just change the name of the race altogether - tracking of race results through time and comparison to previous years, etc. Their current plan is to rename the race “The 1895 Duke of York Stakes”

www.racingpost.com/news/latest/york-to-distance-itself-from-prince-andrew-by-renaming-group-2-duke-of-york/532692

Thinking about it the amount doesn't matter

If Andrew or RF pays or doesn't pay, the American media is not deferential to RF they will flat out ask about the sussexs and Andrew.
The RF are used to being treated with kid gloves. They will steer clear.

@nottodaybatman

Thinking about it the amount doesn't matter

If Andrew or RF pays or doesn't pay, the American media is not deferential to RF they will flat out ask about the sussexs and Andrew.
The RF are used to being treated with kid gloves. They will steer clear.

Having a Royal Family that can't visit the US isn't really the greatest argument for keeping them, is it ?