Prince Andrew Thread 3

[Roussette]

Here is the previous thread...

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/the_royal_family/4443261-Prince-Andrew-Thread-2?watched=1&msgid=114083283#114083283

That description does make it sound Andrew was being set up for a blackmail opportunity. Some friend GM must have been.

@Roussette

I agree NiceShrubbery I've said this many a time on these threads.

Young girls going in and out of rooms, giving foot massages, girls looking about 14 or whatever. A human sized chess board in the NY mansion. A wall of tits. Erotic pictures everywhere. Massage rooms and so on...
Can he really be that dim.

This. The scene was almost of a brothel by all accounts with young girls having sex, and giving foot massages to older rich men. This was not the case of meeting a young woman at an ordinary party and having sex. It would be obvious that these teenagers were either prostitutes or were being coerced in some way. And at the very least it would be obvious that this was organised. Not some random young women who want to have sex with a Royal as is often portrayed. If you walk into something that looks like a brothel, can you really claim you didn't know what was going on?

@PlanktonsComputerWife

That description does make it sound Andrew was being set up for a blackmail opportunity. Some friend GM must have been.

Andrew knew what he was doing. I am sure Epstein made sure photos were taken so that he could blackmail people if he chose to. There will be other evidence I am sure yet to come out.

Plankton It's likely that JE/GM set all their clients up, for reasons not generally accepted by mumsnetters but easily researchable online. The records they kept were meticulous. That is why JE is no longer with us. Allegedly.

Potentially, PA was the only one thick and vain enough to get caught; also as a pp said on another thread a few months ago, being royal and without political clout put him in a weaker position than JE's other clients, who had the necessary contacts and real power to keep them out of the spotlight.

@NiceShrubbery

Let's not go there, prh47bridge. Let's really not even go there, it just takes up thread space.

PA is a proven liar and dodger of legal process who's now having to account for what he did and disprove for the benefit of his small fanclub what the rest of the world knows to be true. Those are the facts, sorry if you don't like them.

In your opinion. Which is no more worthwhile than anyone else's.

I can see he's a sleaze. But I knew that already.

I see no proof he even had sex with VG. There is none.

I see no proof he even had sex with VG. There is none.

Not even Judge Kaplan will get to see the sheets, what a ridiculous comment that is. It's about the trafficking.

There's plenty of proof that he was very good friends with JE who was even at Balmoral. It's also a proven fact that men were only "friends" with JE for one reason. But believe whatever you like, you will anyway!

Are you always this obtuse @derxa?! The queen was groomed by Philip who in turn was groomed by his uncle (Mountbatten) to help secure a better future for him. He may have been 'poor' but he was still the (extended) family so wouldn't have ended up on his arse claiming benefits somewhere! Everyone feels emotions- including the Queen- but she's from a different world where 'duty' to the throne trumps all. They've, in the past, got rid of 'their own' if they threatened their rule. The sooner the monarchy is abolished the better. I hope Andrew is the final nail in their coffin.

What is the betting that this is going to be spun as our fault for not protecting Andrew properly ? Seems to be the modern way.

The queen was groomed by Philip Extraordinary!

@SerendipityJane

What is the betting that this is going to be spun as our fault for not protecting Andrew properly ? Seems to be the modern way.

Probably. Because a grown man cant be expected to take responsibility for his own crimes.

Virginia on the other hand will be a 17-year-old scheming and manipulative trollop.

Who is paying VG's legal bills, by the way? Do we know?

There was an article in the Times (behind a paywall, but the Google result shows some of it) that her main lawyer is a guy called Boies and he's working pro bono??

@derxa

The queen was groomed by Philip Extraordinary!

In 1939, King George VI and Queen Elizabeth toured the Royal Naval College, Dartmouth. During the visit, the Queen and Lord Mountbatten asked his nephew Philip to escort the King's two daughters, Elizabeth and Margaret, who were Philip's third cousins through Queen Victoria, and second cousins once removed through King Christian IX of Denmark.[40] Elizabeth fell in love with Philip, and they began to exchange letters when she was 13.[41]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Philip,_Duke_of_Edinburgh#Marriage

@Puzzledandpissedoff

Who is paying VG's legal bills, by the way? Do we know?

There was an article in the Times (behind a paywall, but the Google result shows some of it) that her main lawyer is a guy called Boies and he's working pro bono??

Yes, no paywall here.

www.courthousenews.com/judge-advances-sex-abuse-suit-against-prince-andrew/

@NiceShrubbery

But believe whatever you like, you will anyway!

Right back at you. I concede there are other opinions your mind is closed and full of prejudice.

@derxa

The queen was groomed by Philip Extraordinary!

I take that as a big, fat YES then 😂

FYI: Prince Philip was well-aware of Mountbatten’s ambitions. He appeared to be a willing participant and honestly, who can blame him? If he never married the future Queen of Britain, he would have been destined to live as a penniless prince supported by the generosity of his affluent family.
At some point, King George VI and his wife, Elizabeth, learned of Mountbatten’s machinations. They were aghast at the prospect of their beloved daughter marrying Philip. According to diarist, Harold Nicolson, they believed Philip was “rough, ill-mannered, uneducated, and would probably not be faithful.”
Although there were apprehensions, Elizabeth was adamant to not let Philip go. Elizabeth’s innocent crush at thirteen manifested into deep desire. The two spent many happy days together and by many accounts, enjoyed each other’s company.

medium.com/lessons-from-history/prince-philip-was-groomed-to-marry-elizabeth-when-she-was-thirteen-4c84e0d679ca

You're welcome.

[quote AndAnotherNewOne]@NiceShrubbery

But believe whatever you like, you will anyway!

Right back at you. I concede there are other opinions your mind is closed and full of prejudice.[/quote]
That first phrase is so cringey. How about look at some facts and try to differentiate them from silly opinions.

But I admit, I am extremely prejudiced against thieving monarchs, liars and sex offenders. I shall pray for deliverance of my tarnished soul.

Being royal and without political clout put him in a weaker position than JE's other clients, who had the necessary contacts and real power to keep them out of the spotlight

I wouldn't quite go that far, since at least in the UK Andrew's got plenty of clout through mummy protecting him
However this isn't being tried in the UK, and a damned good thing too

And thanks for the paywall-free link, NIceShrubbery - I see it says the work was pro bono for the Dershowitz case, but I'd be surprised if the arrangement wasn't the same for this one

wouldn't quite go that far, since at least in the UK Andrew's got plenty of clout through mummy protecting him

Yes he does, but more in the sense of having protection from disclosure, rather than having the contacts in the government organisations that engineer things.

He is not Clinton, for example. JE's outrageous 2007 (?) plea bargain and joke prison sentence was pure corruption, by whoever was able to engineer it.

Lots of other famous people should be on trial too, so why aren't they?

*I take that as a big, fat YES then 😂

FYI: Prince Philip was well-aware of Mountbatten’s ambitions. He appeared to be a willing participant and honestly, who can blame him? If he never married the future Queen of Britain, he would have been destined to live as a penniless prince supported by the generosity of his affluent family.
At some point, King George VI and his wife, Elizabeth, learned of Mountbatten’s machinations. They were aghast at the prospect of their beloved daughter marrying Philip. According to diarist, Harold Nicolson, they believed Philip was “rough, ill-mannered, uneducated, and would probably not be faithful.”
Although there were apprehensions, Elizabeth was adamant to not let Philip go. Elizabeth’s innocent crush at thirteen manifested into deep desire. The two spent many happy days together and by many accounts, enjoyed each other’s company.

medium.com/lessons-from-history/prince-philip-was-groomed-to-marry-elizabeth-when-she-was-thirteen-4c84e0d679ca

You're welcome.*
But I know all of this already. The Queen adored her husband. What else is there to say.

But I know all of this already. The Queen adored her husband. What else is there to say.

So it's OK for 18 year old men to pursue 13 year old girls on your planet ?

The Queen adored her husband. What else is there to say.

Only about another 500 threads' worth.

The RF belongs to a different era, when grooming young girls, hanging and persecuting gay people, murdering animals for sport and being racist was all accepted and normal.

Can they not leave their disgusting morals in the 20th century and stop trying to make us accept them?

It's not a very fruitful line of discussion. 18-year-old Philip was a dangerous predator but 17-year-old VG lacked all and any agency, capacity and responsibility, by virtue of her age? The difference is a year.

I wish the wheels of justice didn't turn so slowly. I am keen to find out how Andrew is going to play this- defend or run away.

Nobody is saying Virginia lacks all agency. Even a 5-year-old child does not lack all agency.
But she was trafficked.

My gran was born in 1910, loved the Queen. but if she had seen an 18-year-old pursuing a 13-year-old girl on her street, would have been appalled.
It wasn't a different time that much. It is simply that people had been raised to apply different standards to the Royal Family.

The difference is a year.

I'm not calling DofE a "dangerous predator", those are your words. He did come from a different era and did things that many (clearly not all) people now find repellent.

And VG was first trafficked at 14, along with several other girls, some as young as 12.