Meghan court case live today

[callmeadoctor]

Just about every single communication the two of them sent to Thomas was in the media - from their side - well before the letter was published. The exact texts themselves may not have been published right away, but it was widely reported that they sent several frantic texts. I don't believe for a second that Harry flew all the way out there, Thomas refused to see him, and they just never said a word about it for several years.

I agree, Purple. I was just pointing out that Meghan herself says not. I have always wondered how these friends had a separate yet simultaneous epiphany that they must save Meghan’s honour by talking to People Magazine 🙄😂

@PurpleOkapi

Just about every single communication the two of them sent to Thomas was in the media - from their side - well before the letter was published. The exact texts themselves may not have been published right away, but it was widely reported that they sent several frantic texts. I don't believe for a second that Harry flew all the way out there, Thomas refused to see him, and they just never said a word about it for several years.

Never ever heard of this.

The txt were a revelation to me, during the first court case. I was surprised and I follow close - not close as you apparently.

The texts were mentioned in Finding Freedom. Not included word-for-word, but described well enough that I immediately recognized them from that.

@smilesy

I agree, Purple. I was just pointing out that Meghan herself says not. I have always wondered how these friends had a separate yet simultaneous epiphany that they must save Meghan’s honour by talking to People Magazine 🙄😂

What makes you think the friends do not communicate with each other. The friend, Janina, definitely said MM kept them in the loop about what she felt, she said it was a group of them. She said they wondered what to do to help. I can see how she could be one of those friends, and how they could all group up to try and clear her name. She said they were reading with disbelief wha was printed about MM.

Well he had no problem crossing the border and go deliver his letter asking Oprah to give him an interview, so not really hard for him.

Hey, rubics, we're agreeing! Would have been easy to arrange to meet in LA. So it's definitely odd it didn't happen. And weird that all sides have said the royals were pushing for Harry and Meghan to meet with him ahead of the wedding, but with no indication of why they were reluctant to do so (which they obviously were, from their description of Harry being 'berated' about it)

@PurpleOkapi

The texts were mentioned in Finding Freedom. Not included word-for-word, but described well enough that I immediately recognized them from that.

Didn't FF come out after the trial?

@Gilmorehill

JK and Dan Wootton attended the same university? Which one was it?

This one.

No, Finding Freedom originally came out August 2020.

Yes, there’s a question about the Finding Freedom timeline. Jason Knauf’s witness statement makes it clear that he doesn’t know what happened between Meghan, Harry and the authors after he left his role in 2019. He does mention in the disclosed contemporaneous texts that the book is intended to be published to coincide with Archie’s birth.

In reality of course, it was published much later, after the couple announced they were leaving the Royal family. Equally, it contains a lot more personal detail (far more than Jason passed onto them at any rate) that it seems likely must have come directly from the Sussexes. It seems pretty likely that after Jason Knauf left the Sussexes’ service they continued to collabaorate extremely closely with the authors.

Didn't FF come out after the trial?

I don't remember. But it was originally intended to come out earlier than it did, and was delayed so it could be updated to include their move to North America. Everything other than that would already have been written by that point.

@smilesy

It has been reported that Harry flew out to meet her dad and he didn't make himself available

Meghan herself said that she did not think that there was any practical way she could fly out to see her father in a small border town that she had never been to, turning up out of the blue, with lots of journalists lying in wait (this is referenced in the texts released today). So how on Earth would Harry have managed it as a member of the British Royal family rocking up to meet a complete stranger in a small town crawling with paps?

I hadn’t heard before that Meghan had never been to see her dad in Mexico - according to this report he had moved there in 2011 (www.businessinsider.com/meghan-markles-dad-is-a-total-recluse-living-in-a-cliff-top-house-in-mexico-2017-12?r=US&IR=T).

I know that he was at her first wedding in 2011, but I wonder if she had even seen him since?

What makes you think the friends do not communicate with each other. The friend, Janina, definitely said MM kept them in the loop about what she felt, she said it was a group of them. She said they wondered what to do to help. I can see how she could be one of those friends, and how they could all group up to try and clear her name. She said they were reading with disbelief wha was printed about MM.

Of course they communicated - that much is obvious enough, whichever version of events you believe. But you're telling me five different adult women, all with a sincere desire to help their best friend, all decided that the best way to help her would be for every last one of them to speak to the media about the contents of this friend's very personal letter to her father ... without so much as running this past the friend in advance?

This is not normal behaviour. It's incredibly disrespectful to Meghan, and a huge violation of her privacy - just like it was a violation of her privacy when Thomas did it later, but worse, because he was at least a party to the conversation. No one would want their friends publishing their private correspondence with their relatives just because those friends took it upon themselves to decide that it would help. And no one whose friends did such a thing would remain close with them and continue sharing personal information.

What makes this more serious in this matter is that one of Schillings partners filed a witness statement in court offering her own testimony as evidence that Meghan and Harry had not collaborated with the authors of Finding Freedom. This is something that obviously she cannot have personal knowledge of - she has relied on her client to tell her the position and then signed and filed a witness statement in her own name

Many thanks for your insights, Serenster - in particular I was unaware of this bit, which even as a layperson sounds to me like a hell of a risk

Honestly not sure about the Burrell thing though. I absolutely accept the point about inappropriate briefing, but it just seems incredible that a well-informed monarch known to read the press wouldn't have seen the many articles about one of her old staff and asked for details

It's also been reported - I don't know how truthfully - that there was pressure from Charles to "make the whole thing go away". Hard not to wonder if the Queen hoped that's exactly what would happen, and the "recollection" was produced because it didn't

Anyway, back with the thread topic I agree with what so many have said ... as with Andrew, whether there's a trial or not and whatever the outcome, the damage is done and the loss of credibility after lying to the court will become Meghan's Tampongate/Virginia Giuffre moment

@Roussette

Maybe posters should read this? Read at your leisure....

twitter.com/InvictusbyPepp/status/1459215824032518149

Her credibility isn't damaged in my book.

I’m not sure why this is meant to show she still has credibility? I haven’t seen anything to suggest this contradicts anything JK has said although I’ve not seen his statement in full so happy to be corrected.

as with Andrew, whether there's a trial or not and whatever the outcome, the damage is done and the loss of credibility after lying to the court will become Meghan's Tampongate/Virginia Giuffre moment

I really think this is not remotely comparable to Andrew and Virginia Giuffre.

No, I agree. But lying to the court is a criminal offence, no matter how you sugar coat it.

We don’t have proof that Meghan deliberately lied, of course, but she has accepted she misled them, and she has allowed others to mislead the court, the press and the public on her behalf. Some people may genuinely believe her account that this was a mistake. Many others will not think that is at all credible.

@rubicscubicle I’m very surprised an American citizen would attend a university in New Zealand. Attending the same institution at the same time doesn’t carry much weight anyway. I speak with experience.

This is what Meghan claimed happened regarding the People article in her court documents

c) In fact, the Claimant did not know that a number of her friends agreed to give an interview about her to People magazine.

(d) As she later discovered, following visits to see her in London at the beginning of 2019, some of her close circle of friends became extremely concerned at the aggressive attacks upon her in the media and the palpable and profound impact which this was having upon her, especially as she was vulnerable as well as heavily pregnant at the time. As a result, one of her closest friends decided that they should help by arranging to give anonymous interviews to this American magazine whose Editor was a very good friend of hers in which they might explain what the Claimant was truly like (as opposed to the tabloid portrayal of her).

(e) In particular, the Claimant had no knowledge that her friends would make any reference to the Letter or its contents, the intention of sending it, or the response that her father sent, nor would she ever have agreed to this being done had she been made so aware.

This is very clear in her statement that she had no knowledge or authorised her friends. I didn’t believe this last year when I first read it and this week’s revelations with FF just reinforces my belief even more.

So is lying to the court a criminal offence even if you apologise and say it was a mistake. When you were caught out lying by another witness.

I really think this is not remotely comparable to Andrew and Virginia Giuffre

Of course it isn't, but my intention wasn't to compare them - simply to mention these are the things which will most likely stick in peoples' minds

[quote Gilmorehill]@rubicscubicle I’m very surprised an American citizen would attend a university in New Zealand. Attending the same institution at the same time doesn’t carry much weight anyway. I speak with experience.[/quote]
Which American citizen?
Jason Knauf and Dan Wootton are both from New Zealand.

There are only 8 universities in New Zealand. I don’t think this is significant.

Jason Knauf is American. Born in Texas, lived in the US with his parents, then started university in Pittsburg before moving to New Zealand.

Oh I didn’t realise. I’m sure I’ve read articles referring to him as a kiwi.