Prince Andrew has bolted to Balmoral

[Viviennemary]

This according to guess who. The DM of course. To avoid getting papers served says the article. Maybe he's just gone for a nice break. Accompanied by Fergie.

Making the claim go away may be the goal of most defendants, but this claim isn’t going to go away

Well, the actual claim might - for example if we the RF pay VG to shut up - but the impression it's left certainly won't

As a republican it suits me just fine, but even I can see there's a certain sadness that Charles is largely known for talking to tulips and wanting to be a tampon, and now his brother's renowned for paedophile friendships and a deeply murky case with a teenager

Of course Charles is pretty keen on befriending paedophiles too, but for whatever reason this gets little comment

I more or less agree with @Puzzledandpissedoff. The general stink around Andrew’s relationship with Epstein isn’t going anywhere.

But if I was Andrew and looking to rehabilitate myself (I personally don’t think that’s a realistic option, and that he should just skulk off, but looking at this from his perspective…) his best case scenario here is to get the NY court case shut down whichever way he can. He then needs to cross every finger and toe he has that the FBI decide they have bigger fish to fry, and take no action against him.

He then at least gets to rely on the fact that he has denied all the abuse allegations, and no-one has proved anything against him.

This strategy has worked perfectly well for men like, for example, Woody Allen, who have had all sorts of allegations floating around him for years now, but still remains working, with actors still wanting to work with him

Settling with Virginia Roberts would be a worse outcome than managing to get her claim struck out (you may dismiss that as a technicality, but technicalities like fairness and due process matter a lot), but its still a better one than being found liable.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.insider.com/prince-charles-history-with-pedophile-priest-peter-ball-2020-1%3famp

Thanks @Puzzledandpissedoff, I'd forgotten about that one!

This strategy has worked perfectly well for men like, for example, Woody Allen, who have had all sorts of allegations floating around him for years now, but still remains working, with actors still wanting to work with him

Because he has a actual skill - but even then I wouldn’t say he has been accepted back. He certainly doesn’t expect to join the president on official occasions, which is the level of rehabilitation Andrew is aiming for.

There is also the issue that the Maxwell case isn’t going away.

I'd forgotten about that one! (Peter Ball)

Many do, Church, and I really don't know why
Whatever we all think about Andrew, there's no realistic prospect of him taking the throne, but this is our future monarch we're talking about - and that's before you get to his fascination with Mountbatten, Savile, Laurens van der Post, etc, and the point that the activities of some of them were known at the time he befriended them

That might be some people's idea of a thoroughly decent, caring man, but it's certainly not mine

Agree Puzzled it’s all very odd.

The problem isn’t just that he sets a bad example, but, that like Andrew, his ego and sense of self importance makes him an easy target for dodgy characters.

I'd forgotten about that one!

That's the one he bought a house for...

@Puzzledandpissedoff

The use of a high profile lawyer linked to Bill Cosby to argue over a technicality seems like an astonishingly bad PR move, and likely to guarantee that the assumption of guilt will hang over his head for the rest of his life

Indeed, but as ever so much hinges on "how it looks", and it's clear they don't give a stuff just so long as their position's secure - and it's unlikely to be anything else at least during Andrew's lifetime

What with this kind of thing and Charles's upcoming reign I've every hope Mantel won't be far wrong with her "two generations", but I won't be here to see it

Madness isn't it?

After the kickback from him continuing a friendship with Epstein even after he was a convicted sex offender, he's chosen to pay money to a legal representative who has argued on behalf of another prolific sex offender. One who drugged and raped his victims.

He either doesn't give a shit about his image as long as he isn't convicted of anything or he's so arrogant he doesn't believe he's at any real risk of consequences. Most likely both.

It's sickening. A decent human being couldn't pay money to a man who on an international stage defended a high profile, prolific sex offender.

He really doesn't give a fuck.

He either doesn't give a shit about his image as long as he isn't convicted of anything

I think this.

He will get out of anything whichever way possible and money is no object hiring the best legal defence to do that for him.

It's really grubby

An interesting article...

inews.co.uk/news/prince-andrew-could-face-us-criminal-investigation-loses-virginia-giuffre-civil-case-1199251?ito=twitter_share_article-top

Nothing has changed in a lot of Andrews little world. His mother is still the Queen. He still has the adoring Fergie. A policeman on the gate to take his court papers. Best lawyers money can buy. Staff still bowing and catering to his every whim. Military titles still held. For now.

@Viviennemary

Nothing has changed in a lot of Andrews little world. His mother is still the Queen. He still has the adoring Fergie. A policeman on the gate to take his court papers. Best lawyers money can buy. Staff still bowing and catering to his every whim. Military titles still held. For now.

I expect there are fucktons of a few more reporters he wouldn't mind spraying with paint though...

@ChurchofLatterDayPaints

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.insider.com/prince-charles-history-with-pedophile-priest-peter-ball-2020-1%3famp

Thanks @Puzzledandpissedoff, I'd forgotten about that one!

Oh no, that gives me the chills. I met Peter Ball a couple of times - and really liked him! I thought he was great, a fine character. So did most people.

Sheesh.

You never really know people do you.

How on earth did Jimmy Savile inveigle his way into the royal confidence? He was apparently even asked to act as mediator between Charles and Diana! Even if he hadn't given the impression of being a total creep (I didn't grow up in the U.K. but seriously, people let their kids near him??), I don't know what sort of marriage advice a lifelong bachelor would've had to offer.

Sincere question to those who are already convinced that he's guilty: what would he have to prove for you to change your mind, and believe that he's completely innocent? I don't think it can be done, not because he's necessarily guilty, but because he'll never be able to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that he's innocent. Many people will believe he's guilty no matter what he does at this point, so his best option is to cut his losses and not cause himself additional legal problems while trying to solve unsolvable PR problems. I suspect that's what his attorneys have advised.

@BeckyWithTheAverageHair

How on earth did Jimmy Savile inveigle his way into the royal confidence? He was apparently even asked to act as mediator between Charles and Diana! Even if he hadn't given the impression of being a total creep (I didn't grow up in the U.K. but seriously, people let their kids near him??), I don't know what sort of marriage advice a lifelong bachelor would've had to offer.

I don't believe he was asked to be a 'mediator' between Charles and Diana but he was extremely popular and much admired from when I was at school. There were TV documentaries devoted to how 'good' he was. People supported the charities he fronted. He came and gave a talk at the school one of my friends went to and they were all excited, milling around asking him questions and getting his autograph afterwards.

I did know a girl at school in the 1960s who knew him personally and was mad about him. Amongst other things he used to get her into Top of the Pops, you'd often see her there on television.

When we once had to write an essay about somebody we admired, she wrote about him in great detail. She appeared to be almost 'in love' with the man. That all seems quite bizarre now.

However Saville, though 'friendly' with people from all walks of life, never made any really close friends and was very much a loner. His eccentric facade was a disguise and charity ventures a cover. Not at all unusual for someone with his predilections.

The two Louis Theroux documentaries about Saville are very good (L Theroux liked him at first, afterwards didn't understand how he could have been so duped but he certainly wasn't alone in that).

Another one was the Liberal MP, Cyril Smith, who was well respected and came over as an upright man.

Yeuch.

Even if he hadn't given the impression of being a total creep (I didn't grow up in the U.K. but seriously, people let their kids near him??)

What now seems like creepiness was just seen as eccentricity then. Although we now know people who worked with him had had suspicions for a long time, the general public didn’t know anything about this and he had the stamp of respectability you get from working for the BBC.

We now know that he worked as a hospital porter to get closer to victims, but at the time it seemed like a selfless act.

He isn’t the only Saturday tea time celebrity to be convicted of child abuse.

Charles’ relationship with him is less easy to explain, (grown man, wasn’t just seeing him through a screen) but, for various reasons he doesn’t appear to be a good judge of character, and Saville would have known how to exploit his weaknesses.

www.theguardian.com/media/2012/oct/29/jimmy-savile-behaviour-prince-charles

PurpleOkapi Interesting question.

I dob't think it's a case of being 'convinced he's guilty'. I have no idea whether he actually slept with her or not. He was in every one of Epstein's properties time and time again. There is footage, there are witnesses, there are flight logs on the 'Lolita Express', there were dinner parties in his honour and so on... he actively sought the man out, probably against advice from his aides.
So the chance he slept with no one at all these properties is pretty unlikely. I imagine VG was personally picked for him by E.

So... let's say he didn't sleep with her or any other girl in these properties.... I think he could have been more vehement in his denials (no, the carcrash interview doesn't count, that was all bollocks). I think he could've handled all this better. But he didn't. He hoped it would just go away. He carried on with his friendship with Epstein after he'd been convicted, he felt untouchable, which he has for the whole of his life. If you are totally innocent, you don't handle it like he has. But no, that isn't conviction of guilt on my part, it's just a feeling.

I know it's not fair if he didn't sleep with her, the press about it all etc... but his handling of this whole thing from the minute Epstein was convicted for the first time .... to now... he has brought this on himself. I bet he looks back and wishes he took different steps a decade ago.
If he'd made one phone call straight after Epstein's first conviction cutting the friendship, he might not be in this position now. But no... he invited Epstein to Beatrice's 18th birthday party at Windsor Castle, and no doubt the Queen even met him there. She could've even danced with him lol

It's sickening. A decent human being couldn't pay money to a man who on an international stage defended a high profile, prolific sex offender.

Oh, honestly! For the second time, a defence lawyer is just doing their (very important) job. Sometimes their clients will be wrongly accused, like the Birmingham Six etc, and sometimes they will be scumbags like Bill Cosby. They are all entitled to be defended to the best of their lawyer’s ability.

@PurpleOkapi He's guilty of so much more that can't be decides in any court.

So for me to change my mind about PA, he would have to publicly apologise for treating women like shit, get a non-public job, have a personality transplant, give up his military titles voluntarily, stop shooting pheasants and be ring-fenced in at Balmoral with the rest of the RF where they can do their own housework, be given apprenticeships in agricultural trades and start giving instead of take take take.

Whatever the outcome, the VG court case is just symbolic of what these people get up to with our money. He's guilty AF.

@PurpleOkapi

Sincere question to those who are already convinced that he's guilty: what would he have to prove for you to change your mind, and believe that he's completely innocent? I don't think it can be done, not because he's necessarily guilty, but because he'll never be able to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that he's innocent. Many people will believe he's guilty no matter what he does at this point, so his best option is to cut his losses and not cause himself additional legal problems while trying to solve unsolvable PR problems. I suspect that's what his attorneys have advised.

His lack of cooperation with the American authorities from the very start, combined with his repeated declarations he was happy to cooperate with them showed he was lying. From the start. An innocent person wishing to clear their name would cooperate. He never did.

I also think most people (me included) are heavily influenced by the fact he remained friends with a convicted sex offender after he was charged and sentenced. I don't personally know anyone who would do that. His refusal to say he regretted the friendship despite knowing what he then knew (in the TV interview) showed him to have a total lack of moral compass.

He has shown his character repeatedly.

Totally agree. It would've been so easy for him to say... Yes, I bitterly regret the friendship, if only I'd been more aware and more questioning of JE, and my sympathies are with every one of those victims.
Maybe he then would not have been in this untenable position.

But no..his go-to answers were to save his skin. No thought about anyone else, just himself.
Horrible

I don't believe he was asked to be a 'mediator' between Charles and Diana

He was:

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/nov/06/sick-of-us-news

It'll be interesting to see whether Charles' murky alliances are brought under scrutiny when he does finally become king but I have a feeling it's more likely to be wall to wall forelock tugging on MSM much like the death of DoE.

It would've been so easy for him to say... Yes, I bitterly regret the friendship, if only I'd been more aware and more questioning of JE, and my sympathies are with every one of those victims

Exactly; we can't know if he was guilty of the alleged crimes or not because he'll never submit to process, but it's the behaviour and the attitude behind it that's been laid bare, not just over this but throughout

As with the disgrace over Charles and Peter Ball (and the rest) he seems a complete judgement-free zone - but then that's what can easily happen when there's a total lack of accountability or any question whatsoever of real challenge
It's not so much any single incident that's being laid bare, but the whole stinking attitude - and it ain't pretty

It'll be interesting to see whether Charles' murky alliances are brought under scrutiny when he does finally become king but I have a feeling it's more likely to be wall to wall forelock tugging on MSM much like the death of DoE

Initially, yes; as said, there'll be a barrage of PR to make the mind spin, and less enquiring minds may well swallow it wholesale

But these things have a way of being revisited once the initial fuss has died down, and if he lives long enough I'm pretty sure that'll happen - not least around why the report on the legality of his second marriage has been sealed for his lifetime

I don’t put too much blame on Charles for the Jimmy Saville alliance, he had a whole country fooled. Psychopaths are very good at charming and manipulating people. It’s different to Andrew visiting Epstein after his conviction.