Prince Charles to alter the Letters Patent - Sussex Children won't become Prince/Princess

[Comeinoutoftherain]

Apologies for the Daily Mail reference, but it's all I have so far.

Apparently PC told H&M shortly before the Oprah interview that his intention was to amend the Letters Patent so that only the children in direct line to the throne (aka William's children) would receive the Prince/Princess title.

So neither Archie nor Lilibet were going to be "upgraded" to Prince/Princess on the Queen's death.

That explains that slightly vague comments made in the OW interview about Archie not being made a Prince; and why relations between PC and H&M were clearly very fraught.

If this is true (and I accept it's hard to see the wood for the trees with the constant press briefings from both sides) I can see it from both points of view.

Harry is in Prince Andrew's position (as a royal, not as a person) which makes Archie and Lilibet on a par with Beatrice and Eugenie. As they get older, and William's children start their own families, the Sussex children drop down the pecking order pretty quickly.

I think Charles has it right that the British Public don't want to keep paying for an extended royal family, you can see that playing out in Europe at the moment. So even if H&M were working royals, their children likely won't be; and I can understand why he wants to present a limited number of royals to the public.

From Harry's perspective, it must feel like a downgrade. It must be difficult being the second (and only other) child in a hierarchical monarchy; being aware from the beginning of all that William is to inherit. Having his children lose something that is currently their birthright must sting a bit.

This should probably have been considered before William and Harry had kids. I doubt it would have been as big a deal when you are not considering actual children, just abstract ones. Or at the very least, it should have been done when the Letters Patent were altered for George, Charlotte and Louis.

It's clearly added to an already tense atmosphere and won't help family relations get back on track.

The Met funded their security in Canada when they went on their extended break.

The funding stopped after they announced they were leaving the RF and jumped back on a flight to Canada.

They made the choices that resulted in security being withdrawn, in part because rather than consulting with anyone about what the implications of their departure were they just typed out a list of demands and assumed they would be met.

Titles, security, £2.5m p.a. Duchy funding, patronage's - were all to be kept. The only concessions they made was to payback Frogmore renovations (which they have now done) and forgo the sovereign grant at circa £250k p.a.

The cost of funding security for them overseas was estimated at up to 10x more than the £1.5m (I think) already being paid by the taxpayer - not even considering the price of asking Met officers to re-locate or do long tours away from their families.

So yes, feel free to make your own decisions but you don't get to write checks from someone else's bank account to enable your choices.

I think the security aspect showed up their 'entitlement' perfectly.

They clearly did not give any of the costs / difficulties / protection officers any consideration.

They were special and deserved it no matter what the cost was to taxpayers or the personal cost to the protection officers.

@SenecaFallsRedux - Oblivious is a better way of putting it - I did not mean to imply US people would go all a bit weepy for 2 estranged members of the RF Just don't live there - so don't know. All best x

@Cacacoisfarraige

excellent post - we once had a tiny violin on our Christmas tree - will try to locate it - but I think it is broken ( over 20 years old )

If I can find it - it is yours - ha ha

Sorry, @Mummy194 not sure what you mean by “all the money”?

I think the security thing showed up Harry's cluelessness as to the cost and the actual arranging of it all. It used to just happen. Trips abroad security all sorted out without it costing him a penny or even having to ask for it. I don't think he even thought of the logistics for security in the USA. Who would provide it. The met wouldn't/couldn't partly I think because of the different rules regarding fire arms. And then all the travel expenses for the security team.

@queenofarles

Do Edwards children get security ? Andrew, who is supposedly the Queens Darling was upset to see his Daughters security go , started paying for it, and if I’m not mistaken it was Charles who wanted it to end no? So I don’t get the whole Archie doesn’t get security because he is mixed race?

true.

Andrew, who is supposedly the Queens Darling was upset to see his Daughters security go, started paying for it

In fairness, and for balance, I'll ask the same about him as I do all the others: how do we know?

We've seen plenty of times that Andrew's very keen on tapping others for money and isn't too bothered about where it comes from, and the idea he'd put his hand in his pocket for anything - especially something he believes his family should have had anyway - beggars the imagination

On the security I agree Harry has never for a single second has to think about it, what it costs, who pays for it, what his protection officers might think about having to travel with him when he leaves the U.K. etc etc
His description of himself as an “internationally protected person” gives his assumptions away. He really did think he would go on getting security wherever he lived in the world and presumably the British public would be perfectly ok about paying for it.
I imagine the reality really did come as a shock to him.

My impression is that Andrew is very entitled. An impression - I do not know the man . But maybe it has come back to kick him in the teeth because I am not sure he is terribly well respected. Still, got a lovely house and not short of a bob or two - but I am not sure the cloud will lift until he addresses it properly - no matter how lovely his life is. I suspect he thinks he can live with that.

Do Edwards children get security?

Edward, Sophie, and Anne only get security while on official engagements, not generally day to day (unlike The Queen, Charles and Camilla, William and Kate). So I wouldn’t imagine Edward’s children have any.

So what is the true cost of living a similar life to the one they had in the UK? Housing, security, travel? I don’t think the money they received from Charles covers half of it?

Oooh. Channel 5 is showing a programme about Kensington Palace!

Yes, and then an hour on Diana

@queenofarles

Do Edwards children get security ? Andrew, who is supposedly the Queens Darling was upset to see his Daughters security go , started paying for it, and if I’m not mistaken it was Charles who wanted it to end no? So I don’t get the whole Archie doesn’t get security because he is mixed race?

It was nothing to do with Charles. The Met and Home Office had a major review of diplomatic security spending - it should be remembered that the Good Friday Agreement likely made a large impact on security risk assessments for lots of people at that time - and the budget for royal security was cut as several members were deemed to need less, or no, security than they currently have.

It plays out in the press as Charles Vs Andrew but it wasn’t anywhere near as simple or clear as that.
The two princesses were at Uni and their father still wanted them to be full time royals after. That was most likely the Charles V Andrew part of it:

I really don't think H and M realised that when they quit their job (senior royals) they also lost the perks.

Bit like if I quit my job tomorrow I wouldn't receive a salary, my private health care package or my free glasses.

But because Harry is institutionalised he doesn't really think outside the institutions box.

So I think it was more shock than hurt that he lost his employment package deal, because for him he always assumed he was born with the package not employed with a package if you see what I mean.

@MaleficentsCrow I think you’ve hit the nail on the head there. He really didn’t understand that leaving actually meant, well, leaving and all that that entails in terms of not having access to things he had previously. He was shocked to find that in the grand scheme of thing, he was really not that important.

@MaleficentsCrow

I really don't think H and M realised that when they quit their job (senior royals) they also lost the perks.

Bit like if I quit my job tomorrow I wouldn't receive a salary, my private health care package or my free glasses.

But because Harry is institutionalised he doesn't really think outside the institutions box.

So I think it was more shock than hurt that he lost his employment package deal, because for him he always assumed he was born with the package not employed with a package if you see what I mean.

Totally agree.

Bit like people who bought their Council houses and then we're surprised they had to arrange and pay for their own repairs. Family member worked for a Council and said this happened quite a few times.

Were

I'd agree they didn't quite get that quitting meant loosing the perks.

Or more to the point I think they were told that they'd loose the perks but thought Charles was bluffing trying to discourage them from quitting.

Not quite getting that the "Internationally protected person" status is outwith PCs control and reliant on them being working Royals.

I mean no disrespect to H, I'm sure he is a nice enough bloke but he's never really been known as the sharpest tool in the shed, and also he probably never once before in his life had to ponder how his life was funded by who/how and what he had to do to get some of it. And you can't blame M for not knowing either, why would she, all she can really do is support him with his decisions and then support him with the fall out. 🤷🏻‍♀️

It's just one big mess, and a arguments and hurt. Time will heal, but the dust needs to be left to settle.

I think Harry is impulsive and once they got the idea to move to Canada and then the US it didn't occur to him to take advice or check the fine print. He has probably never paid a utility bill in his life before.

Is my memory correct they announced to the press they were quitting before it was fully agreed with the remaining Royals?