Prince Charles to alter the Letters Patent - Sussex Children won't become Prince/Princess

[Comeinoutoftherain]

Apologies for the Daily Mail reference, but it's all I have so far.

Apparently PC told H&M shortly before the Oprah interview that his intention was to amend the Letters Patent so that only the children in direct line to the throne (aka William's children) would receive the Prince/Princess title.

So neither Archie nor Lilibet were going to be "upgraded" to Prince/Princess on the Queen's death.

That explains that slightly vague comments made in the OW interview about Archie not being made a Prince; and why relations between PC and H&M were clearly very fraught.

If this is true (and I accept it's hard to see the wood for the trees with the constant press briefings from both sides) I can see it from both points of view.

Harry is in Prince Andrew's position (as a royal, not as a person) which makes Archie and Lilibet on a par with Beatrice and Eugenie. As they get older, and William's children start their own families, the Sussex children drop down the pecking order pretty quickly.

I think Charles has it right that the British Public don't want to keep paying for an extended royal family, you can see that playing out in Europe at the moment. So even if H&M were working royals, their children likely won't be; and I can understand why he wants to present a limited number of royals to the public.

From Harry's perspective, it must feel like a downgrade. It must be difficult being the second (and only other) child in a hierarchical monarchy; being aware from the beginning of all that William is to inherit. Having his children lose something that is currently their birthright must sting a bit.

This should probably have been considered before William and Harry had kids. I doubt it would have been as big a deal when you are not considering actual children, just abstract ones. Or at the very least, it should have been done when the Letters Patent were altered for George, Charlotte and Louis.

It's clearly added to an already tense atmosphere and won't help family relations get back on track.

Ach well - I do wish them well - but on a different tack at 36 - ( & I know he is different to most of us ) why would you be on TV whinging about having to use your mother's millions & Daddy won't pay for you . FFS Harry you have been in the military and your wife has negotiated Hollywood ( or whatever - not my world ) Don't whinge about not being paid for.

It is their choice whether they keep choosing their connections to earn them money. ( Duchess of York did )

Not tomorrow and nor the next days - and if they end up being fabulous TV producers - good luck to them but At the moment I don't see them being skilled TV producers without the RF link. If they are - well bloody good luck them.

Are they popular in the US ( outwith Oprah - I have no idea ) - Anyone know ?

I wish they had taken a role in RF ( & I know not all like the RF - that I understand ( not my choice - their's ) because I could have seen them doing so much for various charities & money would not have been a problem for them.

But hey ho - not my problem .

Best wishes all

You’ve pretty much summed up how I feel. I remember seeing M visit a diverse secondary school in London just before she left and she had a great rapport with the pupils. It’s a shame they didn’t stay and concentrate on that stuff.

Totally agree IrmaFayLear.

Yes, Meghan could really have ascended to be the “Queen of Hearts” had she and Harry stayed. The wedding went down incredibly well and there was so much good will for the pair of them. I remember thinking that a mature actress was a great choice as she’d be able to “smile and wave” a la Princess Grace and of course injecting some glamour into the proceedings.

I am firmly convinced that the whole trouble was the cold hard reality that being royal is actually a royal pain in the arse a lot of the time. Dreary visits to dreary places, following stuffy protocol, being told off for conspicuous consumption (eg baby shower) and to top it off having to stand behind and bow and scrape to frosty Kate Middleton. “I’m a Hollywood star - get me out of heeeeere !!”

I agree I think there is fault on both sides. I did applaud H&M for walking away from something that sounds quite toxic and still think the absolute hounding Meghan gets from the press is wildly out of proportion but I lost a lot of respect for them after the Oprah interview after they complained about the money and Archie not being a Prince. I had more respect for them when I thought theyd turned down all titles for Archie and if they want to make their own money, they should know that would include security. I suspect Harry, as hes had everything done for him and paid for has no clue what it's like to budget within an income or how much things cost, because none of the Royals do. I thought the name was provocative for the sake of it too, although I suspect a bit of mischief making there about the permission thing from a member of staff within the Palace household. A lot of hassle for a not particularly nice name that they arent even going to use!

'and to top it off having to stand behind and bow and scrape to frosty Kate Middleton'

@IrmaFayLear - Kate is not frosty - she is glamorous, elegant, gracious, friendly and regal - and follows the rules. She is a fantastic asset to the RF.

@MagicSummer

'and to top it off having to stand behind and bow and scrape to frosty Kate Middleton'

@IrmaFayLear - Kate is not frosty - she is glamorous, elegant, gracious, friendly and regal - and follows the rules. She is a fantastic asset to the RF.

Please can both teams take a day off?

Are they popular in the US ( outwith Oprah - I have no idea ) - Anyone know ? I think they are quite popular, have you seen what are dubbed as the Sussexs quad ? They are scary

@RickiTarr I get your point - I don't think I am a team - it was just a point - at 36 - with a great deal of privilege - if what you have done is what you want , do it. But it sounds a little sad when he throws stuff against his family. & I will stand up for this - at 36 - come on Harry you are old enough not not complain about about having to make your own way with having your mother's and ( potentially not ) father's money ( who knows ) whilst relying on the name . Just my point .

I don’t blame Kate for being, as I said, “frosty” because I think she and William had eyeballed Meghan and had their reasons for thinking she was not playing with a straight bat.

@IrmaFayLear

Another take on you post on why they left.

According to the timelines.

Yes, H&M were doing very well with their duties, infact a bit too well. Disturbing the status quo, after all the ones in line to be king are supposed to shine. Someone took exception and leaked lies to the media - none of this Prince of Hearts nonsense for MM. Being a hungry beast, the media needed more and more. Till it all got out of hand. H&M were not happy with this, obviously.

In the meantime, within the palace someone raises concerns about the baby's skin tone, at the same time H&M are told that their babies will not be Prince and Princess. This is apparently due to slim down, too many prince/ess apparently, despite the fact that the palace went out of their way to change Charlotte and Louis - instead of saying first born is to be titled wether boy or girl and we just stick to that line. So H&M figure, too many princes is not the problem here. What if W&K had 5 children. Also the rule is not extended to H himself who may have had his own 6 children. So at the time of the rule, you never know if there could eventually be 11 prince/es.

To top it off they are told that because of this lack of prince title, the baby will not have protection. H&M ask why, no answer (they are well aware that security is about threat, from the Met because H did ask that question on an unrelated matter). They are well aware at this point that the palace can alter rules as they wish.

Archie is born, and without consultation, he is titled Master. A statement is put out as such, with a brief that H&M wanted it so to protect the baby. Except, they never said any such thing.

At this point H&M realise that it could well be a reality that LPs really could be changed for their DC.

They ask themselves, what is the point of them being senior working royals and getting the brunt of the criticism, working at a senior level with all the threats, when babies will not even be protected. They could be like the cousins B&E etc. They can go out make a living (does not have to be a 9-5, could be different projects like the Philipps etc.), but they will be there if HMQ needs them for something. Sussex Royal umbrella will take care of the existing charities if need be. They will set up shop on CW country of Canada to make working together easy.

They are told, eff off, you are either in or out. No changes are made.

So they set off.

They are given an extension of a year. They spend that time wrapping things up with the charities etc. - it's Covid, so mostly phone calls, zoom and letters. They are still doing their job for another year - till 2021. They pay off Frogmore and rent. Brainstorm.

PC cuts the funds and security. H asks if the risk has been assessed as lowered. No. They scramble around. Tyler Perry to the rescue - come live at my empty house and security will be provided. (I have to say at this point that PC was likely instructed at this point to cut the funds, don't think he would have just done in personally, with a grandchild this young). Yes, they go. Advice from old friends about a way forward. Netflix, Spotify etc. are concluded.

H&M were hurt that security was taken from baby Archie definitely, and were also hurt by what they saw as racism against him. What parent would not be. They were not whinging and complaining. They had resigned themselves to what took place. There were lots of questions about why they left. I think they just came to recount a certain time and the events that took place.

@IrmaFayLear - but who knows - not me. - possibly not a straight bat But perhaps she has whacked a 6 over the boundary

Do Edwards children get security ?
Andrew, who is supposedly the Queens Darling was upset to see his Daughters security go , started paying for it, and if I’m not mistaken it was Charles who wanted it to end no?
So I don’t get the whole Archie doesn’t get security because he is mixed race?

Do you truly believe in the absence of any racist press,, and if Archie had been a Prince with the security they desired, that Meghan would have been trotting round a sausage factory in Grimsby on a Thursday in February?

Many of the working royals do not get 24/7 security. They get it when the work for the Queen. Just being “hurt”does not entitle you to have your security paid by the UK taxpayer. Particularly when you have chosen to live overseas. And for the umpteenth time it is the Met that advise on security. Not the Palace.

“Queen, Duke of Edinburgh, Prince Charles, Camilla, Prince William and Kate all get 24/7 police protection
Princess Anne, Prince Edward and Sophie are guarded only when on official duties and engagements
Queen's granddaughters Zara Tindall, Princess Beatrice and Eugenie do not have state-funded security
Prince Andrew lost his protection after stepping down and Princess Diana famously jettisoned hers in 1993”

Do you truly believe in the absence of any racist press,, and if Archie had been a Prince with the security they desired, that Meghan would have been trotting round a sausage factory in Grimsby on a Thursday in February No, but i think M&H had more options to pick and choose from, they were not forced to do anything, in fact I think it’s Will&C who were doing the boring bits*

smilesy I think the visit to Canada House just prior to their departure, is to test the waters about Canada paying their security bills?

Right one last point - it must be hard for Harry to be younger brother - but that is how it works. Unless PW and all family go under a bus he had the choice to be a serving member of the RF ( which I know not all like ) but he was doing a decent job I think. Who cares about what names their children are given. If his choice is west coast and hiring himself out on the RF name - well - get on with it Harry. - I hope they make a go go of it but - just understand you are trading off RF names at the moment - bit tawdry - but maybe US people rather like it.

@queenofarles

Do Edwards children get security ? Andrew, who is supposedly the Queens Darling was upset to see his Daughters security go , started paying for it, and if I’m not mistaken it was Charles who wanted it to end no? So I don’t get the whole Archie doesn’t get security because he is mixed race?

I’m not sure Sophie and Edward have security. She did an engagement near me and it was said she drove herself there. I’m not sure if that means there was security there or not.

Security was taken away from H, M and Archie because they left the U.K. The cost of Met police protection in the US was huge and the taxpayer was never going to stomach it. Anyway as private citizens they are not entitled to it any more than a high profile celebrity who worries about his or her dcs.

@Sylvan92

Security was taken away from H, M and Archie because they left the U.K. The cost of Met police protection in the US was huge and the taxpayer was never going to stomach it. Anyway as private citizens they are not entitled to it any more than a high profile celebrity who worries about his or her dcs.

Once more, the security was taken away in Canada, not the US.

but maybe US people rather like it

I think the vast majority of people in the US are mostly oblivious to Harry and Meghan. Not from disliking them, but more from the sheer size of our country and the fact that so many other news stories, national, state, and local, compete for attention, especially during the last couple of years.

And once more, they left. They are not entitled to taxpayer funded security either in Canada or the US as private citizens. It was bound to be removed at some point.

@smilesy

And once more, they left. They are not entitled to taxpayer funded security either in Canada or the US as private citizens. It was bound to be removed at some point.

Isn't one of the points that it was removed with all the money too, meaning it would not be paid for privately either.

[quote BasiliskStare]@RickiTarr I get your point - I don't think I am a team - it was just a point - at 36 - with a great deal of privilege - if what you have done is what you want , do it. But it sounds a little sad when he throws stuff against his family. & I will stand up for this - at 36 - come on Harry you are old enough not not complain about about having to make your own way with having your mother's and ( potentially not ) father's money ( who knows ) whilst relying on the name . Just my point .[/quote]
Fair enough.

I just don’t like the feeling of standing between two really determined fan clubs. I get jumpy.

Canada? The US? It doesn’t make a difference. They were no longer in the U.K. so the cost of protecting them by British police was prohibitive and no other country was prepared to fund. H and M fans can argue til they’re blue in the face about it but facts are facts.