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The royal family

Prince Charles to alter the Letters Patent - Sussex Children won't become Prince/Princess

999 replies

Comeinoutoftherain · 20/06/2021 07:35

Apologies for the Daily Mail reference, but it's all I have so far.

Apparently PC told H&M shortly before the Oprah interview that his intention was to amend the Letters Patent so that only the children in direct line to the throne (aka William's children) would receive the Prince/Princess title.

So neither Archie nor Lilibet were going to be "upgraded" to Prince/Princess on the Queen's death.

That explains that slightly vague comments made in the OW interview about Archie not being made a Prince; and why relations between PC and H&M were clearly very fraught.

If this is true (and I accept it's hard to see the wood for the trees with the constant press briefings from both sides) I can see it from both points of view.

Harry is in Prince Andrew's position (as a royal, not as a person) which makes Archie and Lilibet on a par with Beatrice and Eugenie. As they get older, and William's children start their own families, the Sussex children drop down the pecking order pretty quickly.

I think Charles has it right that the British Public don't want to keep paying for an extended royal family, you can see that playing out in Europe at the moment. So even if H&M were working royals, their children likely won't be; and I can understand why he wants to present a limited number of royals to the public.

From Harry's perspective, it must feel like a downgrade. It must be difficult being the second (and only other) child in a hierarchical monarchy; being aware from the beginning of all that William is to inherit. Having his children lose something that is currently their birthright must sting a bit.

This should probably have been considered before William and Harry had kids. I doubt it would have been as big a deal when you are not considering actual children, just abstract ones. Or at the very least, it should have been done when the Letters Patent were altered for George, Charlotte and Louis.

It's clearly added to an already tense atmosphere and won't help family relations get back on track.

OP posts:
Mummy194 · 24/06/2021 11:56

They must read mumsnet as that was oddly, and repeatedly, suggested here.

That was my first thought.

MargaretFraggle · 24/06/2021 11:57

We fully discussed this on a previous thread

Some of us only join discussions as and when spare time permits. I personally can't trawl through all previous threads before posting a comment.

SallyLockheart · 24/06/2021 12:04

re the Omid Scobie tweet. per Mr Justice Warby again

"In the 20-page document, Mr Justice Warby said the application to stop the naming of Meghan's five friends was filed at 8.32am, with Mr Scobie tweeting the file's cover page at 9.30am on July 9."

are you saying he paid court officials etc to let him know?

Viviennemary · 24/06/2021 12:04

I don't blame them for rejecting Dumbarton especially in the USA. Imagine the teasing. Poor kid.

Mummy194 · 24/06/2021 12:07

@SallyLockheart

I have no idea what he did, but there is no proof of any calls or anything from the Sussexes either.

IrmaFayLear · 24/06/2021 12:09

@mummy195 - how would you know?

Wakeupin2022 · 24/06/2021 12:10

@Viviennemary

I don't blame them for rejecting Dumbarton especially in the USA. Imagine the teasing. Poor kid.
Did they not reject it when they were still in UK? Surely you are not saying they planned to go to US all along?

Kids will tease wherever you go!

Viviennemary · 24/06/2021 12:12

I am not one of those who believe it was always their plan to go to the USA even from the start.

Cacacoisfarraige · 24/06/2021 12:17

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Serenster · 24/06/2021 12:19

[quote Mummy194]@SallyLockheart

I have no idea what he did, but there is no proof of any calls or anything from the Sussexes either.[/quote]
It is quite clear that he was directly sent a copy, most likely by the couple’s legal team, once it was filed at court with instructions to tweet it out asap. Any other interpretation is simply fanciful.

Cacacoisfarraige · 24/06/2021 12:22

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

RickiTarr · 24/06/2021 12:45

@Mummy194

The Sussexes did not sue Omid, just like they did not sue LCC and the 6 other people who wrote a book about them last year.

In court, MM representatives said Omid was wring his own fanciful book full of suppositions and conclusions etc, just line anyone else who writes book. Omid himself admitted a hundred times, he wrote his own book from different sources.

The judge based his conclusion on the fact that MM's office said to correct a certain story (I think it was regarding her father), when Omid went to ask, he was given that correction. Therefore this counts as a kind of collaboration in court. If LCC had asked MM office she would have been given the same story, and in court it would have counted as collaboration (or atleast part collaboration or feeding).

We fully discussed this on a previous thread.

You can’t possibly really believe that the Sussexes have no preferential relationship with Scobie compared to other journalists?
Puzzledandpissedoff · 24/06/2021 12:47

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

RickiTarr · 24/06/2021 12:48

@Cacacoisfarraige

It’s very childish to decide that H&M are 100% right and the RF are 100% wrong. It’s just not that black and white

If you end up saying the most silly things and embarrassing yourself.

There are a lot of blind supporters in this saga, aren’t there? For both teams. I’m sure there are profound messages in there about tribalism and identity and whatnot, but it is very perplexing.
IrmaFayLear · 24/06/2021 12:55

Same here. I can see a lot of wrong in the rf’s behaviour, as well as H&M’s.

I simply can’t fathom absolutely refusing to admit that Harry and Meghan have ever put a foot wrong. It’s bizarre because prior to meeting Meghan Harry was hardly the poster boy for all things progressive. In fact both H&M embody privilege and the love of the good life. Why are these two held up as ambassadors of virtue?

DeRigueurMortis · 24/06/2021 12:57

@IrmaFayLear

Same here. I can see a lot of wrong in the rf’s behaviour, as well as H&M’s.

I simply can’t fathom absolutely refusing to admit that Harry and Meghan have ever put a foot wrong. It’s bizarre because prior to meeting Meghan Harry was hardly the poster boy for all things progressive. In fact both H&M embody privilege and the love of the good life. Why are these two held up as ambassadors of virtue?

Completely agree.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 24/06/2021 12:57

It is quite clear that he was directly sent a copy, most likely by the couple’s legal team, once it was filed at court with instructions to tweet it out asap. Any other interpretation is simply fanciful

Yes it is, but it wouldn't surprise me if you were now told the legal team had been "got at" by the palace as well

TBF it wouldn't be the first time the RF had used their influence to affect legal matters (Burrell, etc.) but it seems no flight of fancy is so great that it can't be dragged into the discussion

Serenster · 24/06/2021 13:12

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SenecaFallsRedux · 24/06/2021 13:21

There is one example, it came up last time, I’ll have to check back as I can’t remember which exact one it was (I want to say one of the Connaught s but I’m not sure).

Princess Patricia of Connaught maybe? She relinquished that title and became Lady Patricia Ramsay when she married a commoner. Her story is really quite romantic; she was very beautiful and accomplished and all manner of kings and princes wanted to marry her. But she married for love and chose Alexander Ramsay.

Her sister Princess Margaret of Connaught married into the Swedish RF, eventually becoming Crown Princess. She is the grandmother of King Carl Gustav and also Queen Margrethe of Denmark, who was named for her.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 24/06/2021 13:30

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Oldbutstillgotit · 24/06/2021 13:33

@ Serenster
“It’s being reported that ANL has been given the right to appeal Justice Warby’s decision, by the way, with an update expected early next month. So that circus rumbles on…”

I have just been reading that . MM will have to wait a bit longer for her front page apology.

JustLyra · 24/06/2021 13:42

@SenecaFallsRedux

There is one example, it came up last time, I’ll have to check back as I can’t remember which exact one it was (I want to say one of the Connaught s but I’m not sure).

Princess Patricia of Connaught maybe? She relinquished that title and became Lady Patricia Ramsay when she married a commoner. Her story is really quite romantic; she was very beautiful and accomplished and all manner of kings and princes wanted to marry her. But she married for love and chose Alexander Ramsay.

Her sister Princess Margaret of Connaught married into the Swedish RF, eventually becoming Crown Princess. She is the grandmother of King Carl Gustav and also Queen Margrethe of Denmark, who was named for her.

It is a lovely story, but no. It’s a son using his fathers title but not the “main” available one
Viviennemary · 24/06/2021 13:42

Yes I just read that too. Its the right decision but can't see it going to trial. Still you never know!

Sylvan92 · 24/06/2021 14:06

@IrmaFayLear

Same here. I can see a lot of wrong in the rf’s behaviour, as well as H&M’s.

I simply can’t fathom absolutely refusing to admit that Harry and Meghan have ever put a foot wrong. It’s bizarre because prior to meeting Meghan Harry was hardly the poster boy for all things progressive. In fact both H&M embody privilege and the love of the good life. Why are these two held up as ambassadors of virtue?

Exactly.
Nanasueathome · 24/06/2021 14:12

@IrmaFayLear

Same here. I can see a lot of wrong in the rf’s behaviour, as well as H&M’s.

I simply can’t fathom absolutely refusing to admit that Harry and Meghan have ever put a foot wrong. It’s bizarre because prior to meeting Meghan Harry was hardly the poster boy for all things progressive. In fact both H&M embody privilege and the love of the good life. Why are these two held up as ambassadors of virtue?

Totally agree with you
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