Prince Philip, from an foreigner's perspective

[Kishkashta]

I am not English, but have been living here for quite a while. And I just don't get what all the fuss is about with prince Philip.

Every single article I read (there are a lot of them lately...) mentions his unconventional personality and sense of humor. But the thing is, from my experience, this is just cookie cutter behavior of the (especially older male) members of the British upper class. These politically incorrect jokes that kind of just stir the water a bit and slightly off kilter behavior. I just find it weird how in these articles it is presented as something unique about him whereas in reality all these stories are just something that describes essentially his class rather than his personality.

Also I don't know how anybody can take seriously the attempts to paint his life as full of hardships (had to give up his "Navy career" to support the Queen - the only reason he had his kind of career is obviously his background and marriage, etc).

To me, from these descriptions, he just seems to be an extremely ordinary person who literally did nothing special other than existing until age 99...

Is there something I don't get about this?

Nah, nobody "allowed" me to live here, I am not a refugee. Like most foreigners in this country I am here because my profession is useful for this country. It will do you well to remember this when you deal with people like me in the future.

Fucking hell. Denigrates refugees. Doesn’t understand that visas are a legal instrument “allowing” you to be in a particular nation state. What an asset to any country you sound. Not.

@marchishere

Let’s have someone follow you around for the rest of your days with a notebook jotting down every slightly inappropriate comment you make. I’m not sure any of us would get off without a black mark against our names.

But actually I think most people would be able to go their whole adult life without making extremely belittling and cruel comments to children. Especially adults in an extremely exalted position like the D of E.

I was fairly ambivalent towards him until reading some of his worse comments, not just the lazy racism and sexism to lots of adults, but racist and offensive comments to children.

As one of the "children" on the receiving end of one of his "offensive" comments when collecting my dofe award, I can assure you he was hilarious.

The room was split into smaller groups of about 6or7 and he came to greet each group in turn, often with a sharp quip. Not a single person in that room appeared offended. I won't say what he said to me, as, with all things, context and intent is everything. It's a fond memory of mine: he really made that room of people feel special and like we had all achieved something.

@badacorn I think op does get it too. op is obviously not stupid. They have a job and set of skills that is very much invaluable to the uk, a job that no uk native can do and they were specifically invited to live in the uk to do this very job, they were not allowed to live here, like a mere refugee, and we will do very well to remember this when dealing with people like them in the future. Whatever that means.

And the slightly rude older gent is not limited to a UC British aristocrat, trust me. My grandpa was wildly inappropriate until his death at 95 🤣🤣

Yeah they’re universal and I like them.

thank you CaveMum, that's a lovely story and picture.

@CleverCatty

Nah, nobody "allowed" me to live here, I am not a refugee. Like most foreigners in this country I am here because my profession is useful for this country. It will do you well to remember this when you deal with people like me in the future.

Nice end to your sentence there... and putting people in their place. Refugees FYI flee from war torn etc situations, my GF was similar abroad.

He was a foreigner. And, as an infant, a literal refugee.

Nah, nobody "allowed" me to live here, I am not a refugee. Like most foreigners in this country I am here because my profession is useful for this country. It will do you well to remember this when you deal with people like me in the future.

😂😂😂 But it's not on to 'bow' to establishments. Nice sneer at refugees, how disgusting. Good one, OP! 6/10.

VladmirsPoutine

I will never not find it remarkable that some people think immigrants or non Brits should feel some sense of 'pride' or reverence to this country for "allowing" them to be here. It's almost as though they haven't a clue about their history.

This is ironic give who the thread is about and the OP's lack of knowledge on the history of the subject.

This is ironic give who the thread is about and the OP's lack of knowledge on the history of the subject.

Absolutely. Well said.

My (immigrant) gran absolutely adored PP and always made that point when he was under media attack. She had been a displaced person after WW2 and, in that sense, Philip Mountbatten had something in common with the postwar migrant influx to Britain.

One way or another he captured something of the postwar zeitgeist when he married Princess Elizabeth; Despite his royal background, he had had an impoverished, itinerant childhood, shuffled around Europe, then there was that orange crate story, his stellar war record...and the courtiers at the palace considered him “rough” and unsuitable for Elizabeth so he must have been doing something right.

We’d have a much stuffier, more aristocratic BRF without his influence, which would be unbearable.

@RickiTarr

Nah, nobody "allowed" me to live here, I am not a refugee. Like most foreigners in this country I am here because my profession is useful for this country. It will do you well to remember this when you deal with people like me in the future.

Fucking hell. Denigrates refugees. Doesn’t understand that visas are a legal instrument “allowing” you to be in a particular nation state. What an asset to any country you sound. Not.

I think "fucking hell" is an expression more appropriate to use when someone is implying that foreigners have less rights than native citizens to express their opinions about British institutions (like the poster to whom I was replying in this quote). Also why do you think I denigrated refugees? Can you explain?

fyi there is no requirement to withhold criticism of British institutions when applying for a visa, or even citizenship.

I think "fucking hell" is an expression more appropriate to use when someone is implying that foreigners have less rights than native citizens to express their opinions about British institutions (like the poster to whom I was replying in this quote).

Everyone is entitled to an opinion. Informed opinions will always be better received than clueless ones, even if opinions still differ.

“Fucking hell” is appropriate whenever the user feels it is.

Also why do you think I denigrated refugees? Can you explain?

Just your need to differentiate yourself from them. Why do you feel it is a distinction worth making in this context?

Why do you think refugees have been “allowed” into any given country but skilled migrants haven’t? Can you explain?

fyi there is no requirement to withhold criticism of British institutions when applying for a visa, or even citizenship.

No, but it’s always a good idea to do your homework before you start criticising.

@VladmirsPoutine

Wow the bootlicking on this thread is off the charts. OP much like you I don't really get the fuss either but I'd absolutely love to be a royal - never having to do any work and being fawned over. Fancy an egg McMuffin at 3am in the morning and it's yours!

You don't think Prince Philip worked? He did keep "not working" til 95, he had a naval career til he was 31( I think) so then 60 years of royal duties after that - averaged out even if he didn't do a 9-5 day every day I reckon he did quite well.

@RickiTarr

This is ironic give who the thread is about and the OP's lack of knowledge on the history of the subject.

Absolutely. Well said.

My (immigrant) gran absolutely adored PP and always made that point when he was under media attack. She had been a displaced person after WW2 and, in that sense, Philip Mountbatten had something in common with the postwar migrant influx to Britain.

One way or another he captured something of the postwar zeitgeist when he married Princess Elizabeth; Despite his royal background, he had had an impoverished, itinerant childhood, shuffled around Europe, then there was that orange crate story, his stellar war record...and the courtiers at the palace considered him “rough” and unsuitable for Elizabeth so he must have been doing something right.

We’d have a much stuffier, more aristocratic BRF without his influence, which would be unbearable.

Some people would say your way of seeing the story is naive, but on the emotional level I do get it, it is nice for once to feel yourself somewhat similar to Philip Mountbatten.

I think the royalists on this thread have really let themselves down by giving the OP a kicking for daring to be a foreigner expressing an opinion. The OP did not denigrate refugees, that is just clutching to try and justify the base xenophobia exhibited by the royal toadies.

Loads of Brits agree with the OP in any case.

Some people would say your way of seeing the story is naive, but on the emotional level I do get it, it is nice for once to feel yourself somewhat similar to Philip Mountbatten.

I would say that until you’ve acquainted yourself with more of the facts you cannot possibly make that judgement. Of course there’s sentiment involved, for my gran and in memory of my gran, but there was a factual basis for her view (to a degree).

You really should better acquaint yourself with his life story. It’s interesting.

I would actually rather have a republic, but HMQ & PP are both admirable people in many ways (the best we had in the BRF) and you’ve only managed to grasp a very one dimensional portrayal of PP.

Some people would say your way of seeing the story is naive, but on the emotional level I do get it, it is nice for once to feel yourself somewhat similar to Philip Mountbatten.

Yes, naive to think that people might share experiences in common rather than focusing on what divides us. Definitely a tendency to be sneered at.

I think some of the media coverage has been OTT. However, when someone significant dies, then it is usual to have something about their lives. Just as when a film star dies, the TV will often show one of their films.
However, full blown coverage on BBC1 and BBC2 both the same is way OTT.
PP DID have a rather hard childhood. His mother had a breakdown, became a nun, his father abandoned him. His sisters married Nazis. His favourtie sister, pregnant and with her family were all killed in a plane crash. He fought in WWII, and I believe mentioned in despatches.
There is bound to be a documentary on his life, if you want to know exactly what he did.
After marrying the Queen (then Princess Elizabeth), he remained a good consort throughout her reign.
There have been some rumours in the early years about some affaires, but if so, these were kept quiet, and very discreet.
I feel sad, but not specifically about the death of someone age 99. He had a long life, and more opportunities after his marriage to support various causes, etc than many other people. I feel sad, just because it feels like the end of an era.
The Queen is in her 90s, and stistically, will not have many years left.
I am not a monarchist, and dont really want them abolished, but I would like them to lose some of the reverence they seem to inspire.

HeadNorth

It is somewhat ironic calling people supporting a "foreigner" "xenophobic"

@RickiTarr

I think "fucking hell" is an expression more appropriate to use when someone is implying that foreigners have less rights than native citizens to express their opinions about British institutions (like the poster to whom I was replying in this quote).

Everyone is entitled to an opinion. Informed opinions will always be better received than clueless ones, even if opinions still differ.

“Fucking hell” is appropriate whenever the user feels it is.

Also why do you think I denigrated refugees? Can you explain?

Just your need to differentiate yourself from them. Why do you feel it is a distinction worth making in this context?

Why do you think refugees have been “allowed” into any given country but skilled migrants haven’t? Can you explain?

fyi there is no requirement to withhold criticism of British institutions when applying for a visa, or even citizenship.

No, but it’s always a good idea to do your homework before you start criticising.

Why do you think refugees have been “allowed” into any given country but skilled migrants haven’t? Can you explain?

I personally would have never used the phrase "allowed to come* against any migrant, skilled or refugee, in this context. I think they have the same right to express their opinion as anyone else. Do you agree?

I think you’re missing the point @HeadNorth

It’s not a pantomime. People aren’t all good or all bad. Personally, I think the monarchy is now an outdated institution, but the people within it are complicated human beings and Prince Philip was probably one of the most complicated, interesting, multi-faceted members of the BRF, who did good and bad things and lived a more complex life than most people seem to be aware of.

You can’t reduce this to two teams and cardboard cutouts.

Some people would say your way of seeing the story is naive, but on the emotional level I do get it, it is nice for once to feel yourself somewhat similar to Philip Mountbatten

You mean the man born in the Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glücksburg family? Who changed to use an Anglicized version of his mother's family name (as the actual one was also German, leading to it being changed during WWI because there was a German family member serving in the Royal Navy at the time)?

@FrippEnos

HeadNorth

It is somewhat ironic calling people supporting a "foreigner" "xenophobic"

Sorry, I can't make head nor tail of your post. Is Philip the 'forgeigner' you are referring to? In which I case I am pretty sure he would be a British citizen by marriage? Honestly, who knows or cares. The point is, a non Brit has just as right to their opinion as a Brit, even (especially) if it makes royal groupies froth.

I personally would have never used the phrase "allowed to come against any migrant, skilled or refugee, in this context. I think they have the same right to express their opinion as anyone else. Do you agree?*

All immigration laws are based around who is allowed to visit, work, live, settle somewhere.

You’re being incredibly over sensitive.

I’ve already said that everybody is allowed an opinion. The pushback you’re getting for yours isn’t because of nationality but because you’re not very well informed, to put it mildly.

HeadNorth

Ah yes the faux stupid response. Always a good comeback.

even (especiallygrin) if it makes royal groupies froth.

Wouldn't that fit under the definition of being a troll?

The point is, a non Brit has just as right to their opinion as a Brit

No one has said otherwise.

@Mamamia456

He was far from ordinary OP. Among other things he was the longest serving consort, a war hero, environmentalist, artist and designer and wrote several books.

Maybe you should read up about him.

Hhm.

"Longest serving consort"; because he stayed alive for 99 years?
Environmentalist - Again, not really, he was very into shooting and hunting.
Wrote many books - Well, yes, but people in very privileged positions do, don't they? Because they sell. It's not like he didn't have ghost writers, and have to scraping about publishers begging to be published.
War hero - his uncle was the head of the Navy.

He's an old man who has died and I feel sorry for his family. And yes, having been in the public eye for so long I guess it is rather the end of an era. But I do agree with the OP that (from what we saw of him) he was fairly typical of an upper class gent of his generation.

It is what it is, the man has died and it's a shame, but he lived a long life, and a life full of opportunities. Opportunities that most people would not have had, so I'm not inclined to fawn over his achievements as I do believe they are very much due to his circumstances.

Incidentally, having caught one of the programmes (the Duke in his own words) he was quite dismissive of his "legacy", saying that wasn't why he did anything and that was for others to decide etc.
He kept busy doing what he was doing (restoring Windsor etc) because I guess he had to do something. I think it is setting the bar too low to applaud these people for everything they do because, well, everybody has to do something.