Prince Philip, from an foreigner's perspective

[Kishkashta]

I am not English, but have been living here for quite a while. And I just don't get what all the fuss is about with prince Philip.

Every single article I read (there are a lot of them lately...) mentions his unconventional personality and sense of humor. But the thing is, from my experience, this is just cookie cutter behavior of the (especially older male) members of the British upper class. These politically incorrect jokes that kind of just stir the water a bit and slightly off kilter behavior. I just find it weird how in these articles it is presented as something unique about him whereas in reality all these stories are just something that describes essentially his class rather than his personality.

Also I don't know how anybody can take seriously the attempts to paint his life as full of hardships (had to give up his "Navy career" to support the Queen - the only reason he had his kind of career is obviously his background and marriage, etc).

To me, from these descriptions, he just seems to be an extremely ordinary person who literally did nothing special other than existing until age 99...

Is there something I don't get about this?

Apparently Andrew and Harry are the only two to have seen active service so for them to be in suits whilst the others dress up in their honorary costumes would have been a difficult look.

@mermaidsariel

Yes, fancy dress might be the answer to all this...

Well you are talking to the person who went to a funeral with Christmas decorations in her hair...

@JayAlfredPrufrock

Apparently Andrew and Harry are the only two to have seen active service so for them to be in suits whilst the others dress up in their honorary costumes would have been a difficult look.

So in effect most of their uniforms are fancy dress Pantomime horse seems pretty reasonable then.

Harry and Andrew are the only people to have been shot at for their country, but William did real work flying helicopters for both the RAF and the Navy for a while, so it’s slightly harsh to call it fancy dress. And Charles did some proper naval service in his youth. Fun fact, the Prince’s Trust was originally set up with his severance pay from the Royal Navy.

@JayAlfredPrufrock that’s true but as retired servicemen, they wouldn’t normally wear their uniforms to a funeral. I think this actually shines a light on how ludicrous these honorary uniforms are. Andrew wanted to wear the uniform of an admiral, a rank he clearly was incapable of earning as he didn’t achieve it in 20 or so years of service. It also winds me up when I see Anne wearing military uniform. Why didn’t she join up if she fancied wearing one? Her mother did.

@JayAlfredPrufrock

Apparently Andrew and Harry are the only two to have seen active service so for them to be in suits whilst the others dress up in their honorary costumes would have been a difficult look.

It would only be a difficult look to the uninitiated. Retired service personnel have no entitlement to wear uniform. The Royal family’s entitlement comes from their honorary positions as colonels in chief, etc, which is why Anne, who has never served in any of the armed services, has that entitlement. Neither Andrew or Harry have those honorary positions any more. The DofE didn’t either after he stepped back.

I have recently attended the funeral of a family member, and I can assure you that how to limit the attendees to 30 without causing offence was difficult. That is, not me organising it. Obviously the RF reducing the attendees from a prospective 800 is much worse, in my view.
What to wear, was also a concern at the funeral I attended, so I am not surprised the issue was raised.
In other words, who is going, and what to wear, are perfectly normal concerns.
Family tension can also be a common occurrence, although this did not feature in the one I attended on this occassion, it has in the past.
Personally, I think normal suits would be just fine, but I am currently wondering if they are now scrambling around for the right clothes (OK, not them personally, an aide or something), especially those who are currently self isolating in preparation!
I am not a Royalty fan, but did feel quite emotional at hearing some of his German relatives are going.

I think I’m becoming more of a royalist as I get older tbh.
I liked Prince Philip.
I think he had a fascinating life, and he certainly endured hardships. I don’t think all the money or titles in the world would be enough for the issues he faced growing up tbh.

I’m also side eyeing all the people (and there seem to many) who talk about his making racist comments, but yet can’t halp themselves pointing out he was GERMAN and had a GERMAN name, and did you know, he WASNT ENGLISH?

Yea, we know. He wasn’t English, so fucking what?
Why do you get so much joy pointing this out?
Pot and kettle......

LouiseBelchersBunnyEars

Very good point!

@LouiseBelchersBunnyEars

I think I’m becoming more of a royalist as I get older tbh. I liked Prince Philip. I think he had a fascinating life, and he certainly endured hardships. I don’t think all the money or titles in the world would be enough for the issues he faced growing up tbh.

I’m also side eyeing all the people (and there seem to many) who talk about his making racist comments, but yet can’t halp themselves pointing out he was GERMAN and had a GERMAN name, and did you know, he WASNT ENGLISH?

Yea, we know. He wasn’t English, so fucking what?
Why do you get so much joy pointing this out?
Pot and kettle......

Yes very good point. The QM used to call him The Hun apparently. A bit rich considering most of the RF are essentially German.

@LouiseBelchersBunnyEars

I think I’m becoming more of a royalist as I get older tbh. I liked Prince Philip. I think he had a fascinating life, and he certainly endured hardships. I don’t think all the money or titles in the world would be enough for the issues he faced growing up tbh.

I’m also side eyeing all the people (and there seem to many) who talk about his making racist comments, but yet can’t halp themselves pointing out he was GERMAN and had a GERMAN name, and did you know, he WASNT ENGLISH?

Yea, we know. He wasn’t English, so fucking what?
Why do you get so much joy pointing this out?
Pot and kettle......

They're maybe making the point that one might legitimately expect someone who was himself of mixed and complex national identities who was reportedly referred to as 'the Hun' by his MIL to be a bit more circumspect about throwing around 'slitty-eyed' remarks.

I don’t think that’s it, tbh, TheFourOhFour

The amount of people, particularly on Twitter, who are calling him just ‘an old racist white
Nazi who died’ is actually unreal. That fact he fought a war against the Nazis seems to have entirely passed them by.

You’ll see it again and again once you notice it the first time, dim people who think anyone who is German is a Nazi, whose whole entire worldview is based on race and nationality.

Who point out again and again that the royal family are German, as if it’s an inherent evil.

It’s less to do with pointing out any perceived hypocrisy, and more to do with them associating any and all Germans with being Nazis.

I don’t think many of them know what a nazi actually is on all honesty.

They also seem to be the only ones who think it’s a problem that the royal family aren’t ‘English’, they point it out as a sort of ‘gotcha’, but most people know that already..... and don’t care!

They betray their own thinking with their accusations, they project their own need to see racial purity onto others, under the guise of ‘progression’.

Apparently the beeb has had almost 11, 000 complaints about the excessive coverage.

On the day of PP's death none of the BBC stations offered anything except the same programme for several hours. Even Radio 3.

They're maybe making the point that one might legitimately expect someone who was himself of mixed and complex national identities who was reportedly referred to as 'the Hun' by his MIL to be a bit more circumspect about throwing around 'slitty-eyed' remarks

As always, context is all. Apparently the Chinese used to joke that students who stayed too long in the west returned with round eyes. That remark simply reversed the joke and the Chinese people who heard it were highly amused. It was only western journalists who objected to and gleefully reported it as racist.

@Alsohuman

They're maybe making the point that one might legitimately expect someone who was himself of mixed and complex national identities who was reportedly referred to as 'the Hun' by his MIL to be a bit more circumspect about throwing around 'slitty-eyed' remarks

As always, context is all. Apparently the Chinese used to joke that students who stayed too long in the west returned with round eyes. That remark simply reversed the joke and the Chinese people who heard it were highly amused. It was only western journalists who objected to and gleefully reported it as racist.

I’ve heard that too. Also the ‘spears’ comment was apparently taken out of context, as it followed on from a prior conversation he had had. As you say, context is everything.

@Alsohuman

They're maybe making the point that one might legitimately expect someone who was himself of mixed and complex national identities who was reportedly referred to as 'the Hun' by his MIL to be a bit more circumspect about throwing around 'slitty-eyed' remarks

As always, context is all. Apparently the Chinese used to joke that students who stayed too long in the west returned with round eyes. That remark simply reversed the joke and the Chinese people who heard it were highly amused. It was only western journalists who objected to and gleefully reported it as racist.

And we're sure, are we that PP was (1) thoroughly familiar with Chinese cultural norms about 'round eyes', and (2) was for some reason making an only apparently racist remark to westerners in China, but which was (3) in fact really culturally savvy and (4) actually intended for the amusement of the Chinese people hearing it rather than to people to whom it was apparently addressed?

And that in fact all of his other 'gaffes' were really culturally-attuned witticisms, and if we'd only been there we would have understood the true hilarity of asking Australian Aboriginal people whether they still threw spears at one another, Cayman Islanders whether they were all descended from pirates, Scottish driving instructors how they kept 'the natives' off the booze during the test, or saying that an old fuse box looked as 'if it had been put in by an Indian' (for which the Palace actually issued an apology)?

Because that really does contravene Occam's razor.

Some people really are wedded to their prejudices, aren’t they @TheFourOhFour? It was nothing to do with Chinese cultural norms and everything to do with an oft repeated joke among Chinese academics.

www.france24.com/en/live-news/20210409-the-story-behind-prince-philip-s-greatest-gaffe

A comment said in an informal setting to put people at ease in reverse of cultural joke - the Sun newspaper were intruding in an area they weren't meant to be in and overhead (didn't understand the cultural reverse of the joke, bit like you). That's how very bright you can congratulate yourself on being - like a Sun royal news reporter laughing at you, not with you there.

Maybe you're not familiar with that "joke" - I am very aware of Chinese cultural jokes about the West - maybe educate yourself (to coin an over used phrase).

Wonder if these people that are so confident that this comment or similar sums PP up: if people came up and listened into every situation you've been when either nervous or tongue tied etc - an interview situation or whatever - and that comment was endlessly repeated back as definite "proof" about you of something or other.

It wasn't a public comment made in front of anyone, it was between PP and a group of university students with press barging in where they weren't. A reverse cultural joke was overhead and the Sun span it that it was "Wong" etc ie trying to punish PP.

It is ridiculous that this is continuously used as "proof". IME the people continuously banging on like this to suit their agenda reveal a very nasty steak of the "holier than thou".

Truly horrible and no-one except fellow "holier than thou" believe such an agenda is used only to create division with a bonus point of foolishly thinking it makes you a better person. It doesn't, makes you look a bit thick I'm afraid.....not an often used phrase of mine at all, but really there is nothing left but being "thick" by going on and on about the "slitty" racist....etc and unable to look at the actual events.

Doesn't change anything for you of course - because you're RIGHT about what ever it is you think and free to spout abuse as it's the correct type of abuse....calling people racist, abuse. Nice.

Bore on and on and on.

@Alsohuman

Some people really are wedded to their prejudices, aren’t they *@TheFourOhFour*? It was nothing to do with Chinese cultural norms and everything to do with an oft repeated joke among Chinese academics.

And Prince Philip would be au fait with the in-jokes of Chinese academics how exactly?

Some people really are wedded to increasingly risible attempts to excuse someone whose sense of ‘humour’ diverged from Bernard Manning’s mostly in being delivered in RP.

@TheFourOhFour and how do you know he wasn't. For someone who was very well travelled and read he probably did

Are you serious - how old are you that you've never come across Chinese jokes about the West??

it really is the equivalent of talking to a Sun newspaper reporter I said that a Sun reporter didn't understand at the time because they're not very "aware" of much more than what's in front of them, you really are very similar in that respect. So really makes sense.

Yes, some people may not be aware, but lots are - you're in the group of not being very aware - about lots of things and revealing you're not picking up much more in life other than group think of who said/thought the wrong thing.

And Prince Philip would be au fait with the in-jokes of Chinese academics how exactly?

No idea but he clearly was in order to reverse it.

You sound uneducated and purposely ignorant. Why comment when you say you know nothing.

The phase empty vessels make most sound comes to mind

The blinkered types can't see any good as it get obliterated behind the huge signs required to be pinned to everything for group guidance.

No such thing as thinking for oneself....or perspective or reflection. Only hatred of things with the wrong label.

It's a very big fear of having the wrong label attached to themselves.

The right insults are fine and make you kind, good and really, really nice. Honestly. Everything they say about PP makes them a really nice person....

@Marmaladeagain

Are you serious - how old are you that you've never come across Chinese jokes about the West?? it really is the equivalent of talking to a Sun newspaper reporter I said that a Sun reporter didn't understand at the time because they're not very "aware" of much more than what's in front of them, you really are very similar in that respect. So really makes sense.

Yes, some people may not be aware, but lots are - you're in the group of not being very aware - about lots of things and revealing you're not picking up much more in life other than group think of who said/thought the wrong thing.

It’s quite funny actually, because I’m sure if you used the sun as your source of info, you’d be shot down and ridiculed. The daily Mail gets enough hate on here, so the Sun is pretty much unmentionable. Due to its past disgraceful reporting, many people still won’t even type the word, and still say the S*n.

However, in this case, the sun is gospel? Yeah, alright 🤣