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The royal family

Prince Philip, from an foreigner's perspective

489 replies

Kishkashta · 12/04/2021 14:00

I am not English, but have been living here for quite a while. And I just don't get what all the fuss is about with prince Philip.

Every single article I read (there are a lot of them lately...) mentions his unconventional personality and sense of humor. But the thing is, from my experience, this is just cookie cutter behavior of the (especially older male) members of the British upper class. These politically incorrect jokes that kind of just stir the water a bit and slightly off kilter behavior. I just find it weird how in these articles it is presented as something unique about him whereas in reality all these stories are just something that describes essentially his class rather than his personality.

Also I don't know how anybody can take seriously the attempts to paint his life as full of hardships (had to give up his "Navy career" to support the Queen - the only reason he had his kind of career is obviously his background and marriage, etc).

To me, from these descriptions, he just seems to be an extremely ordinary person who literally did nothing special other than existing until age 99...

Is there something I don't get about this?

OP posts:
osbertthesyrianhamster · 12/04/2021 14:49

I'm foreign, too. I completely disagree with your analysis. I find it really condescending and quite insulting and your post seethes with a lot of ill-feeling towards the country you're in. If you really feel that way, why stay? I've had moments where I swither, I've been here a long time, too, but if in my country, it's very much if you don't like it here, there's the door.

YABVU.

MissyB1 · 12/04/2021 14:50

I’ve reported this thread. I’m no Royalist by any means (far from it). But when someone (whoever they are) has just died, to start a thread about them just to sneer at them and pick holes in their life is bloody spiteful and purely goady.
I hope HQ decide the thread is inappropriate and take it down.

JudgeJ · 12/04/2021 14:50

@Butchyrestingface

Also I don't know how anybody can take seriously the attempts to paint his life as full of hardships (had to give up his "Navy career" to support the Queen - the only reason he had his kind of career is obviously his background and marriage, etc).

He joined the Navy long prior to his marriage. And assuredly, you don't have to marry a monarch to enlist in the Navy in this country.

He also had a very difficult start to his life, his father left the family, he was evacuated from Greece in a fruit crate and his mother was imprisoned in a mental hospital, he was then brought to England and brought up by distant relatives, albeit not hard-up people but it must have had a negative impact on him.
picklemewalnuts · 12/04/2021 14:50

He seems to have been an extraordinary person. The more I read, the more interesting he seems.

I would have agreed with you 10 years ago, but since then I've learned how extraordinarily hard he was worked, long into old age. When I hear people I respect talking about his awesome intellect, I pay attention and recognise I know enough to contradict them.

picklemewalnuts · 12/04/2021 14:51

I think it's very hard to see someone of his age and recognise them as having been a moderniser- as it seems he was modernising before I was born.

CaveMum · 12/04/2021 14:51

You can educate your self on his "naval career" (your quotation marks) simply by reading Wikipedia. He was a highly talented naval officer, and whilst yes he likely got into Dartmouth due to his connections, everything that followed was under his own steam:

Naval and wartime service

Philip served aboard HMS Valiant in the Battle of the Mediterranean
After leaving Gordonstoun in early 1939, Philip completed a term as a cadet at the Royal Naval College, Dartmouth, then repatriated to Greece, living with his mother in Athens for a month in mid-1939. At the behest of the Greek king, George II (his first-cousin), he returned to Britain in September to resume training for the Royal Navy.[24] He graduated from Dartmouth the next year as the best cadet in his course.[25] During the Second World War, he continued to serve in the British forces, while two of his brothers-in-law, Prince Christoph of Hesse and Berthold, Margrave of Baden, fought on the opposing German side.[26] Philip was appointed as a midshipman in January 1940. He spent four months on the battleship HMS Ramillies, protecting convoys of the Australian Expeditionary Force in the Indian Ocean, followed by shorter postings on HMS Kent, on HMS Shropshire, and in British Ceylon.[27] After the invasion of Greece by Italy in October 1940, he was transferred from the Indian Ocean to the battleship HMS Valiant in the Mediterranean Fleet.[28]

On 1 February 1941,[29] Philip was commissioned as a sub-lieutenant after a series of courses at Portsmouth, in which he gained the top grade in four out of five sections of the qualifying examination.[30] Among other engagements, he was involved in the battle of Crete, and was mentioned in dispatches for his service during the battle of Cape Matapan, in which he controlled the battleship's searchlights. He was also awarded the Greek War Cross.[25] In June 1942, he was appointed to the destroyer HMS Wallace, which was involved in convoy escort tasks on the east coast of Britain, as well as the Allied invasion of Sicily.[31]

Promotion to lieutenant followed on 16 July 1942.[32] In October of the same year, he became first lieutenant of HMS Wallace, at 21 years old one of the youngest first lieutenants in the Royal Navy. During the invasion of Sicily, in July 1943, as second in command of Wallace, he saved his ship from a night bomber attack. He devised a plan to launch a raft with smoke floats that successfully distracted the bombers, allowing the ship to slip away unnoticed.[31] In 1944, he moved on to the new destroyer, HMS Whelp, where he saw service with the British Pacific Fleet in the 27th Destroyer Flotilla.[33][34] He was present in Tokyo Bay when the instrument of Japanese surrender was signed. Philip returned to the United Kingdom on the Whelp in January 1946, and was posted as an instructor at HMS Royal Arthur, the Petty Officers' School in Corsham, Wiltshire.[35]

ApplyWithin · 12/04/2021 14:52

Also I don't know how anybody can take seriously the attempts to paint his life as full of hardships (had to give up his "Navy career" to support the Queen - the only reason he had his kind of career is obviously his background and marriage, etc)

Wrong. His career as a naval officer was actually cut short by his marriage. He gave a lot up to marry the Queen. He was born royal on both sides of his family. It is often said he was more royal than the Queen as her mother wasn’t a blood princess. He had a terrible childhood in a fractured family full of happiness and tragedy. He has never once complained about that part of his life or the strange world he married into afterwards. He has only ever served the British people and his wife and is well-liked.

Let’s have someone follow you around for the rest of your days with a notebook jotting down every slightly inappropriate comment you make. I’m not sure any of us would get off without a black mark against our names.

Give over with your faux “me know nothing, just naive little foreigner routine”. You’re stirring up shit about an elderly man not yet in his grave.

Thedogscollar · 12/04/2021 14:52

@Kishkashta
Dear God go look up how he started of as a midship man, then climbed the ranks. I'm glad this thread has been reported as it is in very bad taste.

ApplyWithin · 12/04/2021 14:53

happiness is obviously meant to say unhappiness!

Lauren15 · 12/04/2021 14:53

@osbertthesyrianhamster

I'm foreign, too. I completely disagree with your analysis. I find it really condescending and quite insulting and your post seethes with a lot of ill-feeling towards the country you're in. If you really feel that way, why stay? I've had moments where I swither, I've been here a long time, too, but if in my country, it's very much if you don't like it here, there's the door.

YABVU.

Great post.
MarshaBradyo · 12/04/2021 14:53

Yes put bluntly he was that but it’s not really done to write obituaries like that.

The DofE scheme is a good thing though

Tanith · 12/04/2021 14:54

It’s interesting to see that many of those who were actually on the receiving end of those comments he made did think he was being humorous and some joined in the banter. I suppose it’s the same as some people not “getting” a comedian that others find hilariously funny.

I can only comment second hand because I never met him. However, my parents did when my DF was in the Army. DF was not an officer, he was just a soldier, but the DofE spent a long time chatting and joking with the rank and file. It meant a great deal to them all that he took the time for them.

dizzydizzydizzy · 12/04/2021 14:54

Totally agree, OP. And I'm British, brought up in the Windsor area. I won't be watching any news until at least Sunday.

Thedogscollar · 12/04/2021 14:54

Thank you @CaveMum
OP needs to see what D of E achieved during his naval career.

Goblin74 · 12/04/2021 14:55

I glad you said it.

Imagine insulting someone else's lack of knowledge by using your own incorrect statements

BustopherPonsonbyJones · 12/04/2021 14:55

Well, Netflix seems to think that Philip (and his family) are quite interesting...

Goblin74 · 12/04/2021 14:55

Why doesn't that bloody quote thing carry over sometimes

EverythingRuined · 12/04/2021 14:56

OP, I am British but I really don’t understand the fuss. I’ve nothing against him but I do not feel sad that he has died as I didn’t know him. I am always sorry for family members when a loved one dies but my sorrow for the Queen is no more than the sorry I feel for the family members of all those thousands of people who have died of COVID this past 12 months.

He had a fantastically privileged life. He lived to be 99. That’s not bad going.
There is no place in modern society for royal families. It’s an antiquated concept that needs to disappear.

squarespecs · 12/04/2021 14:58

I've lived abroad, OP.

In these circumstances I wouldn't have dreamt of posting criticisms of a prominent person of that country on a forum in that country a few days after the death.

Whether your opinions are valid or not it's inappropriate.

enigma16 · 12/04/2021 14:58

It’s interesting to see that many of those who were actually on the receiving end of those comments he made did think he was being humorous and some joined in the banter.

People in privilege and power get away with a lot. It's very difficult to challenge such comments if they come from someone in power. I've gone along with sexist banter directed at me from those in positions of power because I didn't want to cause a scene, make myself look like a victim or make the person angry.

Kishkashta · 12/04/2021 14:59

@osbertthesyrianhamster

I'm foreign, too. I completely disagree with your analysis. I find it really condescending and quite insulting and your post seethes with a lot of ill-feeling towards the country you're in. If you really feel that way, why stay? I've had moments where I swither, I've been here a long time, too, but if in my country, it's very much if you don't like it here, there's the door.

YABVU.

Seriously?

There is so much more about this country than (in my understanding, quite baseless) adoration of Prince Philip. There is a pletora of scientists, writers, politicians, social reformers and millions of simple people who achieved remarkable things through their lives. There are some also bad things as well as things I don't quite understand here.

Being foreign doesn't mean you have to bow to all things establishment you know., at least in a democratic country such as the UK.

OP posts:
LunaNorth · 12/04/2021 14:59

My late FIL was in the Navy and met him.

His nickname on the ship was ‘Gannet’. Quite the appetite, apparently Smile

marchishere · 12/04/2021 15:00

Let’s have someone follow you around for the rest of your days with a notebook jotting down every slightly inappropriate comment you make. I’m not sure any of us would get off without a black mark against our names.

But actually I think most people would be able to go their whole adult life without making extremely belittling and cruel comments to children. Especially adults in an extremely exalted position like the D of E.

I was fairly ambivalent towards him until reading some of his worse comments, not just the lazy racism and sexism to lots of adults, but racist and offensive comments to children.Sad

Ineedaneasteregg · 12/04/2021 15:01

The title Duke of Edinburgh should maybe give a clue that being English maybe isn't necessary to have a view on Prince Philip OP.

It is also possible for people to be a complex mixture of things, a conservationist who shot.
A person seemingly very British who was actually anything but.
A well traveled man with a very European background also capable of eye wateringly racist statements.
A very hard worker without a formal job.
A modernizer who also believed in traditional monarchy.

People aren't just cardboard cutout pantomime characters.

NeverDropYourMoonCup · 12/04/2021 15:02

Rich but not particularly wanted by his immediate family.

Shipped off to various relatives in Europe whilst his mother was hospitalised, his father was off shagging and his older sisters weren't interested in taking on the kid brother and were rather busy being married to Germans just as Hitler and the like were crawling out from under stones and gaining power.

Shipped off to another set of relatives who sent him to a tough/character building boarding school. Probably meant it for the best as he had nobody 'close' and would need to grow up to be independent.

Turned out to be a very talented, intelligent and effective naval recruit and officer (obviously the family connections helped, but rich guys got blown up on ships as well as the working class ones - he wasn't sailing a desk, not that desk/shorebased work was pointless during wartime anyhow, but the men who served in the RN at the same time held him in high regard, which isn't guaranteed in the slightest). Carried on in the Navy after marriage until he had to pack it in because the missus had a new job.

Other than that, did lots of things afterwards, probably out of a desire to be useful rather than merely decorative when he could have just been the richest cocklodger in history.

Not a royal fan, but can you imagine an eight year old boy being passed from pillar to post across Europe because his immediate family doesn't want him and the only people who would take him were probably doing it out because they thought somebody should at least try to give a shit for a little boy on his own?