Prince Philip, from an foreigner's perspective

[Kishkashta]

I am not English, but have been living here for quite a while. And I just don't get what all the fuss is about with prince Philip.

Every single article I read (there are a lot of them lately...) mentions his unconventional personality and sense of humor. But the thing is, from my experience, this is just cookie cutter behavior of the (especially older male) members of the British upper class. These politically incorrect jokes that kind of just stir the water a bit and slightly off kilter behavior. I just find it weird how in these articles it is presented as something unique about him whereas in reality all these stories are just something that describes essentially his class rather than his personality.

Also I don't know how anybody can take seriously the attempts to paint his life as full of hardships (had to give up his "Navy career" to support the Queen - the only reason he had his kind of career is obviously his background and marriage, etc).

To me, from these descriptions, he just seems to be an extremely ordinary person who literally did nothing special other than existing until age 99...

Is there something I don't get about this?

I agree our system is as good as others and arguably better than some.
Having given it a fair bit of thought, I genuinely do like the inherited aspects like the Queen. I like that it is stable, that we have a clear line of succession, Charles, William then George and no one argues, everyone accepts it and life carries on. And we still get a voting democracy every 4 years where we can cast our vote and kick our prime ministers out if we don’t like them.
It’s not perfect but it works pretty well. The monarchy is 2000 years old.
If others just think the monarchy is about celebrity and wearing frocks and Oprah interviews and not stable governance then that shows their ignorance imo.

When posters talk of radical changes, what do they have in mind?

ApplyWithin In short abolish the entire monarchy. It's archaic and after the current Queen I can see support for it really waning. There's really no need to be head of state as a result of luck birth right.

I don’t think the majority will want to abolish the Monarchy. Even the Aussies voted to retain it, which was somewhat of a surprise to me.

If Charles and William follow through with slimming down the Monarchy, that will be enough to satisfy the majority of the population, I think. Especially as we’re going to be busy with referendums over Scottish independence and, very likely, over Irish reunification. (Brexit supporters will learn that they should have been careful what they wished for.)

Having said all that, I would be happy for there to be a vote on the future of the Monarchy so that we can have a proper discussion about it.

@Alsohuman

It certainly doesn’t seem easy to me. Every day dressed up, driven or flown to another corner of the country to shake hundreds more hands. Make small talk to strangers. Look fascinated when you’re bored shitless. Wave when you leave. Drive ten or twenty miles and do it all again.

She did 540 of those engagements in 2017. I’ve seen her in action and somehow she makes it look as if it’s the first time she’s ever done it. She’s a better woman than me, my boredom would make an appearance very quickly.

Absolutely. I couldn’t do it for all the tea in China. If you wake up with a headache or period pain, or you have diorreah, you have to do it. If your pet has died or your marriage is crumbling, or your children are ill, you have to do it. There is no hiding. No excuses. You can’t pop out to the shops, go on normal holidays or have a row with your husband or the servants will hear. Everywhere you go there are protection officers watching your every move. You are slated in the papers. No way would I want that, ever.

I can’t see the British public voting to abolish the monarchy. Not in my life time. Anyone tat wants to would need to come up with a credible alternative system that wasn’t hugely disruptive and upsetting to many.
I wasn’t really a monarchist 10 years ago but I am now. I think people get more affection for the monarchy as they get older.

I think attitudes shift over time. In the same way that zoomers and millennials today aren't going to be able to afford a 4-bed detached house in a leafy suburb for £14.99 like their grandparents, or indeed enjoy job security and prospects etc means that the idea of a special family sitting about in grand palaces, draped in regal gowns and foreign diamonds won't hold much appeal. I think people are beginning to have more discussions about things that up until recently were pretty much accepted as a given. I don't doubt for a second that many people would be besides themselves should the royal family cease to exist in its current form but I think they're increasingly a minority... but again perhaps it's just that I don't tend to hang around hard core royalists so maybe I'm in the minority...

VladmirsPoutine

I would much prefer a reduced monarchy than what we have know, even to the extent where the monarch has a 'job' and gets wheeled out for special occasions.

I can't see the monarchy going that far.

But I much prefer a hereditary head of state than a voted in politician and I have made my dislike of the vast majority of politicians clear on many threads.

@VladmirsPoutine

I think attitudes shift over time. In the same way that zoomers and millennials today aren't going to be able to afford a 4-bed detached house in a leafy suburb for £14.99 like their grandparents, or indeed enjoy job security and prospects etc means that the idea of a special family sitting about in grand palaces, draped in regal gowns and foreign diamonds won't hold much appeal. I think people are beginning to have more discussions about things that up until recently were pretty much accepted as a given. I don't doubt for a second that many people would be besides themselves should the royal family cease to exist in its current form but I think they're increasingly a minority... but again perhaps it's just that I don't tend to hang around hard core royalists so maybe I'm in the minority...

I actually agree with some of this. I don’t think the royal family will continue in its present form once the Queen’s gone and I believe Charles and William recognise that. We’re going to see it radically slimmed down and the majority of the British public who want a monarchy will support that. There are plenty of European royal families we could look to for inspiration.

Mittens030869

The vote in Australia was close despite the whole thing being derailed by a lack of clarity regarding the model for a Republic.

Since then the demographic of Australia has changed and people are just waiting for the Queen to pass and then it will kick off again.

@tonystarksrighthand educate yourself- Queen of England? Really?

www.google.com.au/amp/s/theconversation.com/amp/is-australia-ready-for-another-republic-referendum-these-consensus-models-could-work-142646

Im not a royalist but the DofE scheme gave opportunities to many young people (as an alternative to academic work) to gain confidence and self assurance and to learn the value of working in teams.

He served with distinction in the navy in WW2 quite apart from any connection to the queen and the rf. He probably would have risen high on his own merit had he never married Princess Elizabeth (as she then was).

I found it utterly and totally baffling that anyone can defend an hereditary head of state in this day and age. It blows my mind.

It’s an utterly indefensible idea that anyone should be given that much power, deference and money simply as an accident of birth.

Baffling.

The DofE award wasn’t his idea! He simply put his name to it .

It was a suggestion from his old headmaster, but he made it happen! He put a lot of his energy and focus into it.

hesterstanhope

That figures. It may well be that Canada will go the same way.

If they become Republics, then there will be more pressure in the UK for there to be a referendum here too. I think it’s a discussion that will have to happen at some point.

@sashagabadon

I agree our system is as good as others and arguably better than some. Having given it a fair bit of thought, I genuinely do like the inherited aspects like the Queen. I like that it is stable, that we have a clear line of succession, Charles, William then George and no one argues, everyone accepts it and life carries on. And we still get a voting democracy every 4 years where we can cast our vote and kick our prime ministers out if we don’t like them. It’s not perfect but it works pretty well. The monarchy is 2000 years old. If others just think the monarchy is about celebrity and wearing frocks and Oprah interviews and not stable governance then that shows their ignorance imo.

very well said on all counts there - maybe a public discussion in time will help take the discussion away from "better than us" etc and compare with other systems.

Just the arrogance of lots who believe it's about deference bore the arse off me and they're out in abundance at the moment showing their ignorance.

RF, like newspapers - reflect opinions rather than set opinions - if you don't like the paper you buy a different one that reflects your views.

The RF reflect what we want from them (over history). That's a strength in this system is the adapting of monarchs to the population etc rather than just appealing to the electorate to get "elected". Would be a shoddy idea.

Some people are in awe of them. Some people will curtsy and bow the same way people salute in the army etc it's part of the ceremonial aspects etc. Some will refuse to curtsy/bow that's their choice and no-one cares about their little act of "rebellion".

You don't have to be deferential if you don't want to, some do and that's their choice. Some will be very excited to meet the RF or Davina McCall; some like to acknowledge service of the Queen etc and happy to join in the ceremonial side of that. Some like to think saying overthrow the monarchy makes them sound very well read...

I enjoy the pageant side more as I get older and discuss with dc about how our system works etc. Carry on reforming and slimming down and keep the good bits.

Any thinking person thinks about it and doesn't go around loving the RF because they're better than us etc it's that the RF earn someone's respect as we come across them as we get older and look around at other systems.

The DofE award wasn’t his idea! He simply put his name to it hmm.

I wonder how successful it would have been if he hadn’t bothered.

I think the Queen being head of state has kept the union going (so far!). If we had an elected head of state the smaller nations would be stuck with whoever England voted for, its bad enough with Prime Ministers but at least the Queen is good at showing a genuine connection to eg. Scotland that is a long term relationship.
Also, its cheap, only costs about £1 per person per year, provides plenty of entertainment and brings in lots of revenue for the exchequer.

the mean spiritedness of those saying "he put his name to it" etc - I haven't particularly read whose "idea" it was - could you link it would be interesting I keep hearing this on MN at the moment.

However, that would be spectacularly missing the point anyhow....

DofE was heavily involved and supporting and establishing the award. He would visit schools round the country meeting the participants and it wasn't the huge, huge thing back then that it is now.

Clive Myrie - born 1964 spoke on his news slot very movingly of his experience of the award - black guy from Bolton now BBC newsreader - it was a life enhancing experience from him. He spoke of the DofE arrived by helicopter at his school to hand out the award and how infectious the enthusiasm of the Duke was.

I mention he's black as it doesn't really suit the MN brigade who want to negate everything to racist comments - black guy speaking movingly at what an impact the Dof E visiting his school had on him as a boy.

I know you're all going, racist - one black person speaking well of him etc. - how many people do you inspire, ever? This chap is discussing racism he experiences and is also able to hold the concept that DofE did some inspirational things in his life.
His view doesn't matter either? No, didn't think so - it's the wrong view.
www.theboltonnews.co.uk/news/19054933.double-award-scoop-bolton-journalist/

People like the whole mythology surrounding royalty. He had an incredible life that’s for sure yet he was just an ordinary man in reality that makes him a higher human being. Yet the public enjoy the royal myth, it’s part of our spirituality.

@Marmaladeagain great post, think I might love you a little bit after reading that

but where is all the information that it's nothing to do with DofE? Can't say I've gone around looking to pick holes in him as such so not cropped up on my radar. I know back in the 80s it was a thing to meet him and receive the award - he was very, very much part of where that award scheme is at now.

So mean spirited, they must spit dust these people. It wasn't his idea, sounds like the most pathetic thing to bother to go to the trouble of saying... I laugh in disbelief at the idea of a mean little minded person typing with the shrill voice in their empty head - "but it wasn't his idea".

There's a bit more to everything than an idea anyhow. I had an idea once too. That's all it amounted to, an idea - took an extreme amount of effort and commitment to get the idea into action and I didn't bother. If someone steals my idea ....waves fist in the air.... grrrr.

OppsUpsSide why thank you, always good to spread a bit of love - so you can have some right back at ya