Prince Philip, from an foreigner's perspective

[Kishkashta]

I am not English, but have been living here for quite a while. And I just don't get what all the fuss is about with prince Philip.

Every single article I read (there are a lot of them lately...) mentions his unconventional personality and sense of humor. But the thing is, from my experience, this is just cookie cutter behavior of the (especially older male) members of the British upper class. These politically incorrect jokes that kind of just stir the water a bit and slightly off kilter behavior. I just find it weird how in these articles it is presented as something unique about him whereas in reality all these stories are just something that describes essentially his class rather than his personality.

Also I don't know how anybody can take seriously the attempts to paint his life as full of hardships (had to give up his "Navy career" to support the Queen - the only reason he had his kind of career is obviously his background and marriage, etc).

To me, from these descriptions, he just seems to be an extremely ordinary person who literally did nothing special other than existing until age 99...

Is there something I don't get about this?

Marmaladeagain Nice to have a bit of love on one of these threads

We’ve had some great kings and Queens over the centuries and some not so great ones. I like the randomness of it, the twists and turns it brings and the manoeuvres back in the day to get your man or woman on the throne.

'Not so great ones' may seem like an amusing quirk of history when they're in the distant past, but you had a Nazi sympathiser briefly on the throne shortly before WWII, and if Andrew had been the first born, the heir to the throne would now be a man who consorted with paedophiles and had sex with underage girls. Not so quirkily amusing.

Another foreign take on the construction of Prince Philip as Icon of British Tradition from Fintan O'Toole in the Irish Times.

Basically, it's OK to be a multi-cultural, stateless asylum seeker, literally smuggled out of his birth country in an orange box, followed by an adolescence with several shifts of identity, name, religion, nationality -- as long as you're rich and white. PP hits every possible trope of the anti-cosmopolitan, implicitly racist 'Bad Citizen of Nowhere' trope from Tory Brexit spewings, only somehow it's fine. What if he hadn't been blonde and blue-eyed, if he'd been dark-skinned, or if he'd actually been Greek?

www.irishtimes.com/opinion/fintan-o-toole-prince-philip-asylum-seeker-and-citizen-of-nowhere-but-rich-and-white-1.4535155

Another foreign take on the construction of Prince Philip as Icon of British Tradition from Fintan O'Toole in the Irish Times. Oh not him again

@derxa

Another foreign take on the construction of Prince Philip as Icon of British Tradition from Fintan O'Toole in the Irish Times. Oh not him again

A truly devastating put down.

And can I point out, for PP fans, that Fintan O'Toole isn't actually saying anything (negative or otherwise) about PP as a human being, but is talking about the way in which his early life incarnates the Bad Foreigner/Citizen of Nowhere figure that appears a lot of early Brexiteer anti-immigration rhetoric, and ends

It would be nice to think that in all the orgy of coverage of, and commentary on, Prince Philip’s life, there might be some recognition that what that life really shows is how inescapable European and multicultural Britain is.

You mean the ‘bad’ foreigner skin colour that will increase due to Brexit as predominately white people from EU region don’t have right of freedom of movement here. Lazy stereotyping. Reinforcing his own prejudices and lack of awareness of issues that drove Brexit.

so I’d say it is a negative take. Anti immigration isn’t the same as removing freedom of movement, Brexit removed FOM, that doesn’t stop immigration and everyone knows that. It feeds into the idea that people that voted Brexit are stupid and don’t understand difference between the two.

It would be nice to think that in all the orgy of coverage of, and commentary on, Prince Philip’s life, there might be some recognition that what that life really shows is how inescapable European and multicultural Britain is. Completely disrespectful.

@derxa

It would be nice to think that in all the orgy of coverage of, and commentary on, Prince Philip’s life, there might be some recognition that what that life really shows is how inescapable European and multicultural Britain is. Completely disrespectful.

What on earth is ‘disrespectful’ about that?

If we abolished the RF what should we have instead - Vladimir Putin ?

What on earth is ‘disrespectful’ about that? 'Orgy' What the hell has 'multicultural Britain' to do with Prince Philip's death? Why does he need to comment on Britain so obsessively and so negatively? He's like an older version of Owen Jones. I suppose it pays the bills.

@thereisonlyoneofme

If we abolished the RF what should we have instead - Vladimir Putin ?

A characteristically unthinking remark. Sigh.

Why on earth would you think you’d get a famously militaristic and corrupt ex-KGB officer from another country rather than a British person with broad appeal and a record of public service — who would not have to have ever been a politician, as it would be an ceremonial, apolitical role —if you allowed the British public to elect a ceremonial HoS for a fixed term?

@derxa

What on earth is ‘disrespectful’ about that? 'Orgy' What the hell has 'multicultural Britain' to do with Prince Philip's death? Why does he need to comment on Britain so obsessively and so negatively? He's like an older version of Owen Jones. I suppose it pays the bills.

Read the article.

@thereisonlyoneofme

If we abolished the RF what should we have instead - Vladimir Putin ?

Yes. Unfortunately there are only two ways to run a country. As a monarchy or a dictatorship.

rather than a British person with broad appeal and a record of public service Will that be yourself you're talking about?

Read the article. I have. It's thinly veiled bile as usual. He even manages to insert Meghan into it.

@derxa

rather than a British person with broad appeal and a record of public service Will that be yourself you're talking about?

I'm a foreigner. As per the thread title.

You can't have read or understood the article if you think it's thinly-veiled bile', even if you disagree with its conclusions. At whom do you imagine the 'bile' is directed? Because it isn't Prince Philip.

The comparison with Meghan Markle made the perfectly reasonable point that PP as a foreigner 'marrying in' to the RF and marrying the heir to the throne, so someone far higher up the royal totem pole than Prince Harry wasn't subjected to anywhere near the levels of thinly-veiled xenophobia and racism levelled at MM by the press.

It isn't a criticism of PP. It isn't a defence of MM. It's a look at the different ways in which they've been constructed in public discourse at a time when foreign/native, good vs bad foreigners etc is particularly fraught.

*I'm a foreigner. As per the thread title.

You can't have read or understood the article if you think it's thinly-veiled bile', even if you disagree with its conclusions. At whom do you imagine the 'bile' is directed? Because it isn't Prince Philip.

The comparison with Meghan Markle made the perfectly reasonable point that PP as a foreigner 'marrying in' to the RF and marrying the heir to the throne, so someone far higher up the royal totem pole than Prince Harry wasn't subjected to anywhere near the levels of thinly-veiled xenophobia and racism levelled at MM by the press.

It isn't a criticism of PP. It isn't a defence of MM. It's a look at the different ways in which they've been constructed in public discourse at a time when foreign/native, good vs bad foreigners etc is particularly fraught.*
He's got a book about Brexit to promote.

He's got a book about Brexit to promote.

His Brexit book came out in 2018.

TheFourOhFour

Read the article.

Would love too, but its behind a paywall.

I’ve read that PP was subjected to a good deal of suspicion and dislike in the early days, including by parliament.

@JayAlfredPrufrock

I’ve read that PP was subjected to a good deal of suspicion and dislike in the early days, including by parliament.

And the dear old Queen Mother who charmingly called him 'The Hun' allegedly

@JayAlfredPrufrock

I’ve read that PP was subjected to a good deal of suspicion and dislike in the early days, including by parliament.

I think the 50s and early 60s were quite hard for him between the stuff courtiers and rumours and gossip in the press. That’s all been glossed over in recent coverage. It’s really hard to get worked up about MM when you know what PP had to put up with for several years.

@JayAlfredPrufrock

I’ve read that PP was subjected to a good deal of suspicion and dislike in the early days, including by parliament.

There was lots of German hate - my DGF living in Germany with German DM and dual national English/French DF got lots of racism just before WW1 and after it, then he finally emigrated to UK, I think he didn't get much racism (his accent was continental but less German) but his DM whom he brought over to England (London) to look after his DD (my DM) and for safety before WW2 broke out in Germany certainly did as she was called racist German names by shop owners and refused to be served due to being German.

It's hard to see how the RF has evolved from those days then.

The DM ran an article yesterday saying that PP found Fergie 'completely beyond the pale' and would ignore her if the family was all together at Balmoral or whatever. Because she cheated on her husband who...well, we know all about him.

They seem to have cultivated this institution that is all about show and what they deem to be proper. I just don't see that it's necessary in this day and age. It's also quite unpleasant to behold. It needs dragged into the 21st century, if it needs to continue at all.

@TheFourOhFour There was a lot of thinly veiled racism towards Prince Philip by the press in the 70's. Including Private Eye.
In the1940's the UK press were more reverential towards royalty.
When Edward V111 was dating Wallis Simpson the US press were full of it whilst it was hushed up in the UK.
In Buckingham Palace in the early days Prince Philip was barely tolerated by the secretaries and courtiers.

@UnderHisAye

It's hard to see how the RF has evolved from those days then.

The DM ran an article yesterday saying that PP found Fergie 'completely beyond the pale' and would ignore her if the family was all together at Balmoral or whatever. Because she cheated on her husband who...well, we know all about him.

They seem to have cultivated this institution that is all about show and what they deem to be proper. I just don't see that it's necessary in this day and age. It's also quite unpleasant to behold. It needs dragged into the 21st century, if it needs to continue at all.

I don’t think his dislike of Fergie would be based on anything more than personal preference. I imagine she’s best in homeopathic doses, she’d irritate the hell out of me. Surely we all have relatives we merely tolerate?

They appear to be a much closer family than I realised. I love one of the Queen’s dils calling her every day and visiting to watch films together. The support she’ll get now looks like it’s going to be over and above that most new widows can expect.

There’s nothing inherently brilliant about the 21st century. Quite the reverse.