Palace appoints external lawyers to probe MM bullying...

[Sprining]

Last week, in the lead up to Meghan and Harry’s eagerly anticipated Oprah interview, Palace sources were quoted as saying that the Palace was “prepared to retaliate with fresh disclosures about the couple’s behaviour if the monarchy is attacked”.

Great, so what next

External lawyers to probe bullying by other royals?
External lawyers to probe racism within RF?
External lawyers to probe whether there was disability discrimination in denying support for mental health?
External lawyers to problem Andrews behaviour and whether it broke public code of conduct (not criminal investigation, but did he bring us into disrepute type of stuff)?

Is this a vendetta or is RF finally going to be be subject to public accountability?

@MrsTabithaTwitchit

I think it’s important not to get the wrong idea about Diana as a mother . She came from one of the great aristocratic English families and was brought up almost entirely by nannies and her children were probably the last to also be brought up like this as well.

Harry and William had a full time nanny who did all the hard graft of parenting , Diana took them out for high days and holidays and also took them on very important educational visits but she didn’t routinely dress them, bath them, change nappies even and she didn’t take and pick them up from school regularly; Harry went to a full boarding prep 2 weeks after his seventh birthday anyway.

She didn’t do homework with them or sew on nametapes or socialise with the other mothers in the way Catherine reportedly does. There was certainly no baking or cooking either, famously Diana couldn’t even boil an egg. It is said that one of the things that attracted William to Kate was how much he loved her family life and the informal meals at the kitchen table and that’s what he wanted for his children.

That's a really good/observation and example of the way D's lifestyle/experiences have been re-written.

She's painted today as a very hands on mother and to be fair given the context of her own upbringing and expectations of how royal children had been raised she did break the mould.

But it was a very different style of parenting than most people imagine by "hands on" and seemingly very different again from the choices W&C seem to be making so far.

I fell down the YouTube rabbit hole a while ago re: cookery documentary's and ended up watching a few about royal kitchens/chefs (not just the U.K. RF but also Monaco).

There's one series where a former royal chef demonstrates all the favourite dishes he used to cook for HMQ/PP/PC/PD and W&H.

He said D introduced a lot of less formal meals (like stuffed jacket potatoes) and things like burgers and hot dogs for the boys whilst she favoured super healthy low carb vegetarian food.

So progressive yes in moving away from the formal dining PC favoured but a far cry from cooking family meals in a cozy kitchen.

@MrsTabithaTwitchit

I think it’s important not to get the wrong idea about Diana as a mother . She came from one of the great aristocratic English families and was brought up almost entirely by nannies and her children were probably the last to also be brought up like this as well.

Harry and William had a full time nanny who did all the hard graft of parenting , Diana took them out for high days and holidays and also took them on very important educational visits but she didn’t routinely dress them, bath them, change nappies even and she didn’t take and pick them up from school regularly; Harry went to a full boarding prep 2 weeks after his seventh birthday anyway.

She didn’t do homework with them or sew on nametapes or socialise with the other mothers in the way Catherine reportedly does. There was certainly no baking or cooking either, famously Diana couldn’t even boil an egg. It is said that one of the things that attracted William to Kate was how much he loved her family life and the informal meals at the kitchen table and that’s what he wanted for his children.

All very sad, especially as Diana was a very young mum and didn't have a full time job.

She's definitely not the last though. I have known many mums in both the US and UK who fit your description of Diana's parenting. None have been aristocratic, but all have had live-in nannies who look after the children from waking to bedtime. The mums go to the gym, shop, lunch with friends, sometimes do some charity work, but spend very little time with their own children. One mum even found it "sweet" that her toddler got up early and got into the nanny's bed, rather than her own.

her children were probably the last to also be brought up like this as well

Eh?

W&K are well documented as having a very highly trained Norland nanny in the household.

Yes but W&Cs nanny operates in the modern way, as an integral part of the household, working hand in hand with the parents as a team.

William and Harry were still brought up by the Nanny and were brought to visit their parents but were otherwise invisible . Unless their parents wanted to see them which I am sure they did a lot but then Nanny was in charge, it was a bit less formal than Charles and Diana’s upbringing but the their parents had very little involvement in the boring stuff.

When I say visit I don’t mean the lived separately but they were brought down to the sitting room from the nursery to spend time with their parents and then went back to the nursery .

@Sprining

Last week, in the lead up to Meghan and Harry’s eagerly anticipated Oprah interview, Palace sources were quoted as saying that the Palace was “prepared to retaliate with fresh disclosures about the couple’s behaviour if the monarchy is attacked”.

Great, so what next

External lawyers to probe bullying by other royals?
External lawyers to probe racism within RF?
External lawyers to probe whether there was disability discrimination in denying support for mental health?
External lawyers to problem Andrews behaviour and whether it broke public code of conduct (not criminal investigation, but did he bring us into disrepute type of stuff)?

Is this a vendetta or is RF finally going to be be subject to public accountability?

The external.lawyers will be so the investigation is fair and unbiased. I would think the royals would rather find the staff were lying than discover they telling the truth. Even more so after the dirty laundry interview. The relationship won't be fixed of royals retaliate to MM, they need to be the bigger party, and air laundry in private

What I don't understand about the Andrew thing is that he had met a victim of Epstein in a residential house during a time he was accused of crimes and convicted, those crimes took place accross the houses andrew staged in. Presumably there were other women there too. Sort of like saying you went to a drug house but never saw any drugs or anyone using them and never even got a sense of what your friend was doing.

Incredibly low standards for a male royal. Yet here we are counting the nannies of women in the royal family who do enormous amounts of work. Their hair and makeup alone to by photographer by the world's media is 2 hours of their day gone.

As a Mum trying to run a business (albeit on my own and no help), I feel really under pressure. Everyone is thrilled about my business endeavour and there is a huge expectation on me....

Run a business and provide for my child and raise him well and also be healthy and lose weight and be mentally well and self care and find a hobby and time for me and socialise and make sure my child socialises.

What are the expectations on men ? The pressure on Kate must be surreal. What a load to carry and the level of emotional support she's giving to her husband at the moment, pulling her weight with other royals down and raising 3 children in a way that she probably wants to.

It's all exhausting & completely unfair as women.

Plus the bullying thing... none of the staff worked for Meghan. HR themselves said that Meghan wasn't a paid employee so they couldn't help her...

Meghan wasn't directly paying her staff. I imagine funds are set aside for her staff but she has no say and control on whether these funds are allocated. She doesn't decide whether she even gets staff.

She's not an employer so I guess you might class her as a colleague but then it comes down to power. If you have staff that are letting your public reputation slide and reputation, that have behind the scenes conversations you aren't aware of with the press. If you're basically at the mercy of these staff then that would test you.

I don't know if we can call someone suicidal a bully ? A bully or someone close to breaking point, ready to combust and really no control or way of exerting their independence in a royal institution.

To me the vibe towards the end with other royals at events. It seemed very passive aggressive. The way M&H were ignored, stood to the back of the balcony, sat behind Prince Andrew and stood behind him even though he's twice as large as Meghan. William adjusting his scarf and never showing any acknowledgment of Meghan personally in public. Felt like she was being excluded and ignored and I can't imagine what this was like behind closed doors.

I think it all started at engagement as they said and I think the Clooney-Oprah guest list was a way of finding some power. Imagine being at the mercy of the British media/royal fsmily

Sorry but no

Mummyozzi. I’m guessing you aren’t UK based which is why you are so misguided in your understanding of relationships between principals and staff at the palace and the scale of operations.
Meghan said she had suicidal feeling I think one day
That gave her the rest of the other two years to be work on fostering relationships and I mean working relationships- with her staff. Lots left, some clearly flagged how unhappy they were - and that indicates issues with Meghan and also Harry running their teams. Nothing excuses bullying of the scale alleged .
As a mum running a business on your own, I suggest you don’t employ staff as you would be a nightmare boss if those are your expectations of running a team.

@Truelymadlydeeplysomeonesmum

Sorry but no

Yeah, just this

So subcontext to this is that there were clashes with staff which made both parties unhappy? It'll be a mess to detangle

And we hear that some staff referred to Meghan in a derogatory way, apparently calling her a showgirl and harry a hostage or similar. That sounds quite disrespectful and bullying.

Yes @Frownette. And I think the culprit is the lack of clarity on roles and employment contracts between ‘principals’ and staff.

It is fun as a feudal type system with modern individuals. Bound to be discord

Run, not fun 😃

Feudal, no.
Palace staff are the equivalent of civil servants working for the government.
They are employed by Buckingham palace, have specific job roles, are paid and have FULL employment rights including holidays and protection against bullying. So it is most definitely not a feudal system.

In which civil service jobs do you take orders from you colleague’s wife/sister/brother/mother in law/grand father in law?

As a mum running a business on your own, I suggest you don’t employ staff as you would be a nightmare boss if those are your expectations of running a team

Bloody hell.
Is this what MN is about now... posts like this slagging off others posters just for having a different opinion?

There was a lot Mummyozzi said of sense.

I’m guessing you aren’t UK based which is why you are so misguided in your understanding of relationships between principals and staff at the palace and the scale of operations
Do you work at the Palace Sally and can categorically state exactly how it works?
No. Thought not.

None of us know.

but its ok for Sprining to state it is run as a feudal type system?
does Sprining work there? does she know?

@Sprining

In which civil service jobs do you take orders from you colleague’s wife/sister/brother/mother in law/grand father in law?

Each royal residence/couple have their own staff responsible for their operations - and it is clear that staff don't then work for other royal residences or take order from them either.

Hence the big fuss over Angela Kelly and the tiaras - she is the Queen's dresser and works for the Queen and under the Queen's direction to assist in the management of assets such as the collection of jewels.

The employees within the RF are unique. There is no other working environment like it.
They might on paper have protections but I doubt they can do much about anything that happens because of NDAs etc. I don't imagine it's a happy place to work.

There has been any number of stories over decades... courtiers pitted against courtiers, staff against staff, feuds and rivalries... the likes of Paul Burrell, Fawcett, Bolland and 'backstairs billy'...
Feudal means outdated and old fashioned. I'm inclined to agree with that.
It's even been described in the past as such...
After the Burrell trial... this...
The result is that this will be remembered as the year that great sections of the royal family's archaic support structure of servants and silence came crashing down

Has it changed much? That's the question

and protection against bullying

Seriously?

First a former royal aid told the Telegraph:

"Bullying is endemic across all the households... They cut you out, undermine you, talk down to you. One minute you're in – the next you're persona non grata. Some staff have special protection. I've never witnessed behaviour like it before. I wish I'd never seen behind the curtain."

Second, Buckingham palace staff is nothing like the civil service, which wages considerable power and independence.The civil service serves the country, it works with successive governments, it does not serve one family.

Third, explain the bullying allegations against Andrew. And Charles’s valet’s claim that he would get explosively angry to the point that he once ripped a sink off the wall in anger, and once grabbed him by the throat so that he had to hide in a cupboard. He said: “We’ve all kept his secrets, and the strain made me very ill.”

aide not aid ^

Yup, monarchy is not feudal all all.

Ni civil servant takes orders from people who are not contractually related to them in a clear way

And the more clear examples above from pp 😊