It was “, 'a bit naughty' to imply Archie 'couldn't be a prince because of the possible colour of his skin' when it was due to strict rules,...”

[RickiTarr]

Hugo Vickers made me laugh with his phrasing. So British to say “a bit naughty”.

Also, seriously high lights how many people don’t understand the rules or can’t explain the rules well, and no American has a hope of grasping our quaint & complicated rules and institutions, really.

Sorry, it’s the Daily Fail, but funny.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9340545/Why-Meghan-Markle-bit-naughty-referring-Archies-skin-colour-prince-discussion.html

Prince Edward and Sophie apparently were upset that their DC weren’t made princes and princesses, but were told no. The monarchy is actively trying to slim down.

As grandchildren of the monarch they had the right to be.

Lyra, who gets police security then? I thought the Met's Protection Command is for Royals / politicians / govt officials and buildings only? Or are you thinking about witnesses to crimes etc?

You think she would do her research before announcing a lie to the world. But why let facts get in the way of how it played out to gather maximum sympathy

@BlackBrowedAlbatross

Lyra, who gets police security then? I thought the Met's Protection Command is for Royals / politicians / govt officials and buildings only? Or are you thinking about witnesses to crimes etc?

All the expected people plus “other individuals deemed at risk”

All royal protection officers, those assigned to members of the Government, former prime ministers, ambassadors, visiting heads of state and other individuals deemed to be at risk are serving members of the Met, with at least 10-15 years of experience before entering this highly specialised field.

What is so difficult about this? Letters patent issued by the Queen in 2012 replace anything that went before. Under that only the children of the oldest son of the heir to the throne get to be prince and princesses. The heir's other children get it when he succeeds to the throne. This isn't something that could just be changed for one child because of the colour of his skin or what level of protection his parents wanted.
If they want it, but of course there was a big fuss made soon after Archie was born that they didn't want him to have titles, they didn't take up the ones he was already entitled to.
As M+H have relinquished HTH status it's possibly unlikely that Archie will ever get to be a prince.

Of course, should Charles never take up the throne then that's that for Harry's offspring as far as getting to be a prince or princess is concerned.

@Kikitheparot

Prince Edward and Sophie apparently were upset that their DC weren’t made princes and princesses, but were told no. The monarchy is actively trying to slim down.

As grandchildren of the monarch they had the right to be.

This is inaccurate. The children have the titles, the parents chose not to use them. Sophie Wessex confirmed as much in an interview.

Harry and Andrew have a lot in common here imo. Andrew also wanted his daughters to be treated equally to William and Harry with titles/ security etc. They both have the same sense of entitlement I think.
Anne and Edward appear to be much more sensible about it all, clearly understanding their children were never going to be that important in the hierarchy and preparing them for this. Like Andrew should have accepted and like Harry should accept now.
William will have this exact same issue with Charlotte and particularly Louis. I hope they do prepare the two of them better as George rightly or wrongly will be the most important child. If I was William and Kate , I would seek advice from Anne in particular as she has done quite well with Zara and Philip. They don’t seem to have grown up with resentment at not being the top family.
I also wonder if Harry ever looks back now and reflects on when he was the priority grandchild along with William and how that made his cousins feel. Bet he never thought about it at all.

@stablefeet

What is so difficult about this? Letters patent issued by the Queen in 2012 replace anything that went before. Under that only the children of the oldest son of the heir to the throne get to be prince and princesses. The heir's other children get it when he succeeds to the throne. This isn't something that could just be changed for one child because of the colour of his skin or what level of protection his parents wanted. If they want it, but of course there was a big fuss made soon after Archie was born that they didn't want him to have titles, they didn't take up the ones he was already entitled to. As M+H have relinquished HTH status it's possibly unlikely that Archie will ever get to be a prince. Of course, should Charles never take up the throne then that's that for Harry's offspring as far as getting to be a prince or princess is concerned.

The 1917 LPs still stand. The Queen simply issued a special LP for the other children of William. It could have been done exactly the same for Harry’s children, nothing in the rules prevented it if the Queen has wished to do so.

They also haven’t relinquished HRH, they’re just not using it so that won’t make a difference.

All the expected people plus “other individuals deemed at risk”

So if Archie was deemed at risk he would already have it?

I am still struggling to understand why they expected security funded by the taxpayer when nobody else's children get it (unless expected to become monarch) and neither do working Royals like Princess Anne.

The 1917 LPs still stand. The Queen simply issued a special LP for the other children of William. It could have been done exactly the same for Harry’s children, nothing in the rules prevented it if the Queen has wished to do so.

Nothing in the rules preventing it, but she did it for William's children in order to solve a specific problem which doesn't involve or apply to Harry's children.

@BlackBrowedAlbatross

All the expected people plus “other individuals deemed at risk”

So if Archie was deemed at risk he would already have it?

I am still struggling to understand why they expected security funded by the taxpayer when nobody else's children get it (unless expected to become monarch) and neither do working Royals like Princess Anne.

The only children with a comparably high profile are the Cambridge children and they all do get it. As children the York children also got it.

Working royals like Anne, Edward and Sophie have security while on public engagements.

That’s why I think the RF need to clarify the security issue because Meghan and Harry are saying that they were told Archie wouldn’t receive protection, regardless of risk, because he didn’t have a title. That’s not how security works here, or it certainly shouldn’t be.

@BlackBrowedAlbatross

The 1917 LPs still stand. The Queen simply issued a special LP for the other children of William. It could have been done exactly the same for Harry’s children, nothing in the rules prevented it if the Queen has wished to do so.

Nothing in the rules preventing it, but she did it for William's children in order to solve a specific problem which doesn't involve or apply to Harry's children.

What problem was that?

I'd thought paid security was only for those undertaking Royal duties? Regardless of whether they have a Royal title or not.

@BlackBrowedAlbatross

The 1917 LPs still stand. The Queen simply issued a special LP for the other children of William. It could have been done exactly the same for Harry’s children, nothing in the rules prevented it if the Queen has wished to do so.

Nothing in the rules preventing it, but she did it for William's children in order to solve a specific problem which doesn't involve or apply to Harry's children.

And my posting of that was in response to a suggestion it couldn’t be done for Archie.

On the basis Archie seems to have been treated in line with the rules as published and would apply to all I fail to see how this is racist. The rules were changed to ensure no gender equality in 2012. Archie was not entitled to be Prince under these rules

I think Meghan father has it right the comment on how dark archie’s skin would be was probably just a dumb question and prob mixed in with wonder if it will be a boy or girl, whose nose/eyes will it have, it is just one of those questions.

negative comments don’t equate to racism just because you’re mixed race.

Nobody is saying he doesn't need protection or shouldn't have it, but that the taxpayer shouldn't have to pay for it, especially now that they have chosen to stop working on our behalf and don't live here. Charles paid for it when they first left, and now they can afford to fund it themselves.

The Cambridge children get it because George is going to be King one day. His relationship with the tax paying public is completely different from Archie's.

The rules have changed since Beatrice and Eugenie were children. The RF have been asked to save money on security.

Anne and co get it for engagements but not otherwise. Archie doesn't do engagements.

@JustLyra

I think Harry badly let her down. There are so many things he clearly didn’t tell her and you have to wonder why.

This! I think if they’d had a proper adult discussion about their move, rather than doing a moonlight flit which became permanent, then so many of these issues could have been ironed out before they went, and we wouldn’t have been having this discussion now. Whatever happens now, the genie is out of the bottle after this interview and serious damage to relationships has been done. Whether they can be repaired remains to be seen

What problem was that?

They had changed the primogeniture rules and there was a potential anomaly if W+K had had a girl first. She would have been higher in the line of succession than any younger brother, but with a lesser title. So they decided all of them would have prince / princess titles.

If he needs protection then it should be given. The Cambridge children don’t get it because George is going to be King, they get it because they need it.

That, especially when at the time Harry and Meghan were working royals, should have been the only criteria for the child getting or not getting it.

If the rules on it being based on need have changed then that should be public knowledge. We don’t give people protection here based on their title or relationship with the public. They give it on need.

What problem was that?

They changed the primogeniture rules, which created a potential anomaly if W+K had had a girl first. She would have been higher in the line of succession than any younger brother, but with a lesser title. So they decided all of them would have prince / princess titles.

It also helped kill the conversation that had come about at the time whereby people realised that had Charlotte been first born she’d have been the future Queen and yet she still would have been Lady Windsor because the sexist element of the “eldest son of the eldest son of the Prince of Wales” in the 1917 LP’s hasn’t been changed.

Yes, this was the reason for that change — it didn't matter in the end because they had a boy first.

But if it hadn't been changed, and Charlotte and George had been born the other way around, you'd have had Lady Charlotte (3rd in line) and Prince George (4th in line) — she'd have been outranked in title by her younger brother, who'd be automatically titled as William's first son.

@ParadiseIsland

no American has a hope of grasping our quaint & complicated rules and institutions, really.

You really really think that someone who is british can't understand 'rules'? even though it seems those rules are somrhow written and clear??

Come on. IIf MM didn't understand NOR WAS HER HUSBAND who is a royal. If a royal can't understand it, who n earth is supposed to???

It's like everything that has happened is all because of HER decisions, as if Harry didn't exist or wasnt able able to make any decisin of his own. Right...

I can see how the American mindset would be “The Rules have been altered before, just change them again!”, whilst the Palace mindset is very much built around charting a steady course, and - latterly (last 25 years odd) - Prince Charles’ plans to streamline the monarchy.

Harry actually surprised me in how well he understood and articulated what he called the “invisible contract” between monarchy and media.

However, haven’t we all long been told that Charles’ plan to streamline was to whittle the A-team down to him and his children? So maybe Harry expected to remain part of that, and his DC too?

I’m not sure. I definitely got the impression that Harry & Meghan sincerely believed some things that were clearly inaccurate.

It all goes to show that communication in the RF is shockingly poor.

Discussions about titles and the likes for Garry’s children shouldn’t have been held when the child was born. That should have been discussed and planned way before then.

Harry and Meghan were clearly under the impression all of the grandchildren were going to be dealt with in the same way. Yet a simple conversation about Harry’s title when he married “You’ll be Duke of Sussex, your wife Duchess, you’ll use Earl of Dumbarton in Scotland and Baron Kilkeel can be used by your son if you have one...” or “You’ll be Duke of Sussex, your wife Duchess, you’ll use Earl of Dumbarton in Scotland and we’d rather your child didn’t use Baron Kilkeel as were not planning on them using titles at any point because x, y and z...”

It seems they just don’t talk to each other at all.

If the rules on it being based on need have changed then that should be public knowledge.

It is public knowledge that the Royals who have their security funded by the taxpayer are the monarch, those expected to become monarch, plus any working Royal while on Royal duties. I guess you could call it those working for the nation.

We don’t give people protection here based on their title or relationship with the public.

Who is we? The Royal Family do it based on the rules above. They don't expect the taxpayer to fund their security unless they are working for us. Any of the rest of them are more than welcome to arrange security, as Andrew has, but they pay for it themselves.

Harry’s children, not Garry’s children 😂