Harry & Meghan, all welcome (aka positive thread, now renamed!)

[Roussette]

Here we are, let's inform, discuss, share and respect.

Well of course @Roussette As you said we do not know the truth of any of it.

None of the articles/books are peer reviewed research are they

And it was Mr Scobie who first brought AK into the narrative which I have said was silly.

@Roussette

There was something on twitter in the last couple of days that William and AK teamed up to stop MM wearing any of the Queen's jewels

That's horrible. You'd hardly feel accepted into the family would you? What on earth was the reason for this?

I can't believe that to be any true. However, if the RF had MM down as a potential 'bolter' (maybe they had heard on the grapevine at this point or directly from H&M themselves how unhappy they were and how they intended to move continents) they felt it necessary to 'protect' the jewellery and keep it in the UK. Not casting any aspersions by the way, just that aristocrats have a different attitude to family possessions than we do. Like their properties, the jewellery never really belongs to the current generation - it's theirs to wear, but with the understanding that it remains in the family and is passed on through the generations via the bloodline heirs.

@Roussette

I have heard the phrase 'the prince and the showgirl' but I've never heard it used and would think in this context, it would be a bit rude to be honest. I've always thought of it as a derogatory term... here's the wiki meaning. "A showgirl is a female dancer or performer in a stage entertainment show intended to showcase the performer's physical attributes, typically by way of revealing clothing, toplessness, or nudity"

Why, in this day and age, anyone with an artistic bent should be referred to as a show girl, goodness only knows, and that applies to the palace too.

I hadn’t ever heard of Meghan being referred to as a showgirl and agree it’s derogatory.

I do wonder if it’s based on some of the work she has done in the past such as the barbecue on a roof top for a men’s magazine (search YouTube as I’m sure it’s on there and I know how MN likes comments backed up with evidence) partly the reason why people felt it fitting. Personally, I think pretty much anything and everything can be said in a derogatory manner and it’s all about how the person themselves feels about it. As we’ve discussed “this girl” can be deemed snobbish when said by William yet loving when said by Harry in the engagement talk. It’s all about perception.

I think the AK angle is worth discussion, not as to her personally but as to the decision to 'go after her' in the book so to speak.

As people have said, staff can't answer back so it seems very unfair. And interesting that the book decided to go with that story.

@mrscampbellblackagain Sorry I didn’t mean to target you in particular but when it was being discussed as a reason for why MM didn’t feel accepted into the family, I felt I had to question it because otherwise these threads end up deleted. I hope you didn’t feel I was picking up on you personally because that was not my intention.

What is the 'this girl' reference about? I missed out on hearing anything about that.

@EthelMayFergus

195 - If they were estranged then surely he would not be invited to the wedding, let alone be expected to walk her up the aisle

That didn't happen though, he didn't go to the wedding or walk her up the aisle, so how do you know he was invited or expected to do anything, when none of that actually transpired?

Anyway, you didn't answer my question; why do you think he didn't meet Harry in the two years they were together before marriage?

Ok, hard to answer your first question, because on this thread when MM submits something in court its considered a lie. But, there you go, it was on her paperwork that went to court detailing he had a car, hotels, tailor, flights etc. all booked for him. I assume MM would be able to produce these receipts, as after all she was the one who submitted them.

Your other question, I also don't know. Dicky Arbiter (another who dislikes MM) was asked this question and he said TM was invited to meet H - can;'t remember if it's Canada or the US. Arrangement were made for him, but he did not show up. Though Doria did show for a meet. DA also said H at the time been involved in a lot of projects and his diary had to be managed precisely. So while he was able to book MM visits in, he could not really hang around stateside for days on end waiting for TM to make up his mind about whether he is willing to meet him or not. I believe this was on the BBC, on their morning show.

@Witch25

Can we please stop discussing Angela Kelly on this thread? So far we have had a horrible snobbish article about which definitely ripped her to pieces and not we are calling her an office manager. I thought we had moved away from a negative thread but this is very negative. H & M were wrong to mention her also regardless on what went on which as *@Roussette* said, we do not know. She is an employee and not the Queen’s grandson. She cannot use her friends to answer the media in regards to her involvement or she will be sacked. She does not have the right of reply and I think it is wrong to discuss her when she cannot answer back.

She was written about in Finding Freedom, hence the discussion on this thread. I think 90% of the posts have been supportive of her - trying to turn the FF frown upsidedown!

Pretty sure that the Queen has her back.

@Witch25 don't worry - I was just chuckling to myself as in the old days demands for source was always asked for on the most benign subjects

Roussette - just because you may not have heard of something doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Some examples for you - I don't think any of these are intended to be rude.

www.dailyrecord.co.uk/entertainment/celebrity/prince-showgirl-actresses-who-married-11124422

from: www.irishexaminer.com/lifestyle/arid-20266470.html

"Grace Kelly was not, however, born an aristocrat. Another subheading of her story could be The Prince And The Showgirl — she was Hollywood royalty, rather than anything blue blooded"

From: www.independent.co.uk/life-style/metropolitan-life-why-are-they-famous-no-4-koo-stark-1311337.html

"The Duke of York - the only halfway hunky royal member. The prince and the showgirl spawned a thousand tired headlines with their 1982 relationship. For Kathleen "Koo" Stark, American one-time starlet, this was a real coup. To her credit, she never spilled the beans."

@ajandjjmum Many posts were supportive of AK but I thought a couple crossed the line such as the one that quoted the article.

I can't believe that to be any true. However, if the RF had MM down as a potential 'bolter' (maybe they had heard on the grapevine at this point or directly from H&M themselves how unhappy they were and how they intended to move continents) they felt it necessary to 'protect' the jewellery and keep it in the UK

Blimey.
I know you say you are not casting aspersions but I'm sorry to say that is what it sounds like.

I am sure she would have more respect and morals to return any jewellery that she had borrowed from the RF

As for 'showgirl'... would Cate Blanchett, Imelda Staunton, Anne Hathaway, Emma Watson be happy to be referred to as a 'showgirl' by any prospective family they were marrying in to? No. It's demeaning and rude.

She’s not anywhere near that league.

When I explained that Meghan Markle was an actress to my grandad, he smiled and cheekily referenced ‘The Prince and the Showgirl’. I think it’s a term used by the older generation (pre-Boomer) and is more akin to musical theatre actresses/chorus girls rather than strippers. It wouldn’t surprise me if it was something Prince Philip said, thinking he was being witty, but obviously ‘showgirl’ has negative connotations for younger generations so Harry would take offence to it.

The Prince and the Showgirl was both a stage play and a film. I assume this is where the reference comes from.

Serenster I particularly said I had heard of the Prince and the Showgirl. I said that in my post.
But in these days and times it is derogatory. Maybe in the 50s and the 80s(your examples) it could have not been picked up on so much, but in 2020? NO.

It was also a phrase used towards Grace Kelly and Prince Ranier, and Prince Andrew and Koo Stark.

She’s not anywhere near that league

Good grief. That means it's OK to call her that?

Not contemporaneous to their relationship but recently Koo Stark thankfully won damages from a news outlet referring to her as a porn star (news outlet was discussing KS in context of latest series of The Crown).

aj;andjjmum
As I said that was 1956 and 1982. Slightly different to 2020!

This thread is bonkers
So its offensive to call someone an office manager, but ok to refer to an actress as a showgirl.
Weird

Does that mean "showbusiness" and "showman" are similarly derogatory, Rousette?

@Mummy195

Since H has been in the palace all his life, could he have seen other ppl seeming to get their tiaras quickly with no problems. The engagement was announces months before, yet it looks like the hair thing was a week before the wedding, which means it should have been ready by then. How long does it take to arrange this tiara, I mean it sure was wrestled up pretty quickly for Bea's last minute wedding.

IMO this is an unecessary dig at Beatrice. You're speculating that she didn't follow the procedures in place to get her tiara, and was shown favouritism.

I can remember watching one of the big movie stars on Graham Norton talking about the borrowed jewels and diamonds they are loaned from Harry Winston ect for the Oscars and how they're each assigned a security guard to watch them like a hawk the whole night. Considering MM tiara is worth between £2m I'd consider it prudent to have some sort of similar security watching over it as well and that wouldn't be easy to arrange last minute.

Complete speculation from me but I like to think TQ jewels are hidden in a secret vault that requires two seperate retinal scans, finger print scans and voice recognition 😂

www.google.com/amp/s/www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/price-royal-wedding-tiaras-worn-13868417.amp

I actually burst out laughing when I read the post suggesting William and AK had teamed up to cut M out of 'the jewels' - PASS THE GLUE!

I mean - who knows? Maybe it's true. I poo pooed people frothing that Donald Trump would suggest the US election should be cancelled/postponed and here we are, him having done it and also banning the press from the Republican Convention.

I mean - who uses 'showgirl' under the age of Gawd Knows What. It's a very old fashioned term and probably only heard in posh-o circles.
I am sure someone said it. It's not a term that would wear well today but was possibly not meant as derisorily (sp?) as it came across.

Re baggage: I am sure they were very worried about Meghan's family - transpires they were very right to be - and yes, she was divorced previously. This was, I'd bet, the latter of the two concerns. How quickly things were moving was possibly a very big one. Cultural conflict/differences in their background quite apparent another massive one. Very easy to understand why there would be concerns, you'd have to be tone deaf not to grasp it: a lot of marriages have collapsed in the RF - Harry's parents' spectacularly. I think it's unfair to conclude that, given the RF context, concern was unjustified.

Isn't part of her job to hand out the tiaras?

Of course not. She's the Queen's dresser. That means she needs to know which of the Queen's jewellery is clean and in store so that she can plan ahead to co-ordinate it with HMQ's outfits. That's it. That's all. Everything else is secondary to that.

She is not at anybody else's beck and call. She is answerable only to the Queen.

She's not the royal household's equivalent of Deliveroo.