Harry & Meghan, all welcome (aka positive thread, now renamed!)

[Roussette]

Here we are, let's inform, discuss, share and respect.

@Roussette

I wonder though if it would be a security issue to know more about the access protocols. Which is probably why we don't know!

Yes, that's what I was thinking. Also, I sort of assumed there might be a replica for practicing with.

I always think it a bit sad that the fringe tiara got broken on HMQ's wedding day, you can see from the photos it isn't perfectly symmetrical. I wonder how upset HMQ was about that? I'd have been distraught but she seems to have a very even temperament.

OVienna I agree about the culture clash. I have believed for a while now that this is what is at the root of a whole lot of the issues between H&M and the RF and their aides etc. American celebrity culture, (from an outside view I hasten to add ) seems to expect that you get what you want when you want it. Everything moving fast. I don't think much moves fast in the culture of the RF.

An example would be the reported example of PH wanting to see HMQ and being told that she wasn't free until some given date.

The RF is a vast enterprise with lots of people employed and many of them possibly with a strongly vested interest in everything continuing to be done in the same slow and cumbersome ways.

Well indeed Serenster.

Both are published by companies owned by News Corp

And HarperCollins, the book's publishers, are also owned by NewsCorp. So whatever the BTL comments say, they will have chosen the newspaper from the NewsCorp stable where it made most business sense to place the serialisation of the book. My feeling is that the Times can seem to be presenting summaries of different aspects of the book, in a relatively straightforward way (bear in mind at this point my post about sources at the start of this thread) and the Mail can then publish more gossipy versions of those and other Sussex stories, as we've seen this week.

Was The Times on the list of papers H&M won't cooperate with?
If it wasn't, it surely must be now.
The latest from Camilla Long is as brutal as I have seen.

Sorry, I don't seem to be able to do share tokens, not sure if it's because I'm on the app or because I'm on the free month I signed up for.

All aboard the Freedom bus, cries Meghan as her friends are crushed under the wheels

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/cb250ac6-d3ce-11ea-867d-b1ae14c05a8c

We also learnt that Prince William had not always been one hundred per cent complimentary about La Sussex. He’d once referred to her as “this girl” in a private (he thought) conversation with the dedicated privacy crusader Prince Harry, who promptly leaked it.

Sorry. Shouldn’t laugh. Camilla Long is a snake. But sometimes she writes well.

Harry called Meghan "this girl" too in his engagement interview, it seems odd to see such a small thing has having such a huge import (I mean, I'm sure it wasn't that really, his reaction to William would have been based on way more than that, as any younger sibling/person feeling inferior etc can surely understand!). Casting it in the book as being all based on the one phrase makes him look a bit hot-headed.

Ooof that’s a brutal article!

If anyone has a share token, that would be lovely

There was so obviously going to be a culture clash. Why then when there were problems, did those involve not recognise this was down to differences in culture rather than taking them personally? It's immature and unprofessional. There are actually books written for those in multinational businesses to help them reconcile cultural differences. It's not something unique to MM as an American trying to deal with British people.

I think they included it in the book so they could claim William was a snob which is odd because 'this girl' isn't particularly snobbish and I imagine all the RF are snobs to a degree, as are many celebs. It's hardly a devastating critique.

@AnneOfQueenSables

I think they included it in the book so they could claim William was a snob which is odd because 'this girl' isn't particularly snobbish and I imagine all the RF are snobs to a degree, as are many celebs. It's hardly a devastating critique.

Yeah, I don't really get what the problem is either. I suppose we can't know about tone or context but even then it doesn't seem like anything to call out about, never mind some kind of rift. Really strange.

fall not call

This bloody kindle corrects even the simplest of words

I think it is a privacy thing about Archie. I suppose (speculatively) they think that they are fair game for the paps but they don’t want a child papped.

I agree that they don’t want him papped. I’m sure those who are supporters will disagree but I think they also want control over his image because it is beneficial to them. I think more people watched Meghan reading a book to Archie than would have watched her reading a book alone. They need to raise money to be financially independent and they need to be able to control their entire family’s image to maximise their publicity and reach.

The Times review is quite scathing but it still seems pro-H&M but just anti the authors who it clearly thinks have done a bad job. I do wonder whether or not The Times bought the serialisation and paid what they did for it because at the time it was reported that H&M had been involved. If so, that book would have been valuable compared to what appears from the extracts to be a saccharine account of pettiness and flouncing that is based largely on previous articles in the paper.

@DaveCoaches

Great to see the thread back Roussette!

I’ll admit I was surprised to see they’d serialised the book in the Times, it seems more like something the Mail/Mail on Sunday would do.

nice to see you Dave

been busy reading and posting on another forum. so nearly missed you.

I don't doubt W is a snob, but imagine most of the RF are.

I was thinking about the tiara. Remember the original 'stories' were based around M wanting an emerald of dubious provenance but now, according to the extract that was in People, the fall out was about H&M feeling Angela Kelly had dragged her feet.
It made me wonder if some of the stories were deliberately leaked with one fact wrong so they could have plausible deniability. So if a journalist asked: 'Was there a falling out because M wanted the emerald tiara?' The honest response could be: 'No, there was no argument about M wanting an emerald tiara.' It's a slippery approach to PR ... and truth.

@JaJaDingDong

Marking place but not commenting as my comments don't seem to cut the mustard.

Can I join the club?

Re: the upset because PW referred to M as 'this girl' I am not sure that I really accept that it was that phrase that caused the upset. If PW had said, 'H you really need to tie things up with this girl, she is just perfect for you', I doubt that he would have been seen as patronising or whatever. It was the advice that caused the upset.

@AnneOfQueenSables

I think they included it in the book so they could claim William was a snob which is odd because 'this girl' isn't particularly snobbish and I imagine all the RF are snobs to a degree, as are many celebs. It's hardly a devastating critique.

I never got why anyone would claim William is a snob about Meghan. Technically she is of the same social standing as Kate. Both were born into a fairly well-to-do, middle class family, both received a private education. Both Meghan and Kate’s mothers attended state schools and had ‘glamorous’ working class jobs. Meghan was a successful tv actress (and actress doesn’t have the same negative connotations as it would have 60+ years ago) where as Kate never achieved anything higher than a retailer buyer. I can’t see how he could consider Meghan as ‘lower’ than Kate except in a royal capacity.

Unless they are trying to say that he was prejudiced against her because of her race or nationality? But surely if that is the case, snob is the wrong term to use?

@MissEliza

There was so obviously going to be a culture clash. Why then when there were problems, did those involve not recognise this was down to differences in culture rather than taking them personally? It's immature and unprofessional. There are actually books written for those in multinational businesses to help them reconcile cultural differences. It's not something unique to MM as an American trying to deal with British people.

I agree they should have considered this. But I wouldn't have expected Harry to really appreciate it to be honest (and he is used to having a team of people considering his personal needs, without appreciating the effort that goes into that). And I suppose I can say this as a American-born myself: with certain types of things, Americans really struggle to appreciate that other people do things differently and that THAT IS OKAY. I experience this sort of, answer my email today now, drop what you're doing and do this for me, now everyday at work. I can deal with it (and it's more that I have to remind myself not to behave like that myself) but it takes time to create boundaries. I often receive emails from US based colleagues who assume I will be sympathetic along the lines of: Where is so and so? They're taking ages to get back to me. (It'll have been two hours.)

Here's another example. When I was in grad school and living in London a friend of mine from college came to visit from Switzerland where she was working for the subsidiary of a US private bank. I was living in a bedsit in a nice part of town but it was a bedsit. She was living in a company sponsored flat. We had a fraught weekend around why I wasn't 'calling cabs' to get to the theatre (because you could hail one right outside) and lots of other things along the lines of general frustration with London. And this is a person who had also lived in this country for a year abroad in a prestigious London university - spent with all other Americans largely, but she had been here. My money was tight.

She left a very expensive costume jewellery necklace and a hair dryer behind, both of which she expected me to post back to her. The hair dryer I explained would have to wait (this was the early 90s and I am not even sure what it would have cost me to post) but I said I would post the necklace. She called before the week was out asking where the necklace was. I was like: Okay, yes I will post it and that's when I learned what her timeline was. Right then. Immediately. Now. Maybe I was supposed to Fed Ex it? God knows. We (sort of) discussed that our timescales were different and she told me she'd moaned about me to her boyfriend in New York. He said to her: "X, not everyone works for [high powered investment bank etc.]"

I do think it is highly likely that with regard to running their 'court' it would have been visible that Meghan came from the sort of envrionment I described above. It would have been a shock and also, as a previous poster pointed out, that there will be those in the palace who relished putting her in her place.

@OVienna

That’s very interesting. What I struggle with is why Harry doesn’t appear to have stepped up to intervene or explain. Why is he not acting as a bridge between Meghan’s perceptions and his knowledge and understanding? I think he is completely cowed and disempowered by her. It’s not an equal relationship where one person feels they must accede to the other’s wishes and viewpoints at all times. It seems to be ‘my way or the highway’ at all time’s where she is concerned. Not good.

Your perspective is very interesting @OVienna. I've worked and studied in the US and while I love Americans, I do recognise the characteristics you describe. However, if you're going to live in a different country or work with people from different cultures, you're going to have to adapt to survive. I think it's been suggested before that perhaps H was the one to take any difficulties the wrong way and decide it was due to snobbishness or racism rather than cultural differences.

To react so strongly to the phrase 'this girl', which Harry used of her himself in their engagement interview, when you are being given quite reasonable advice, suggests to me that Harry a) had already decided that anyone who didn't instantly adore Meghan as he did was against him, and b) that he was spoiling to pick a fight with any such people when an opportunity presented itself.

@OVienna This very interesting! Thank you for highlighting the cultural differences.

Colin Canpbell also highlights cultural differences as a source of contention. She states that as an American when you ask something it’s pretty much done there and then. Also, the royal staff aren’t used to people being blunt with them. They aren’t very well paid and so do it for the love of the job, which makes them very close to who they are serving. So the royals tend to ask very deferentially if it’s possible for them to get them something. Meghan, who probably pays her assistants very well, might say “I want this” as she is used to speaking this way to her American associates, and the royal staff think she’s rude because it’s not the simpering, deferential ‘if it’s not too much trouble’ British mannerisms they are used to.

Cultural differences are not an excuse not to get along with people though. I know plenty of Americans who come to work in the U.K., fully appreciating that despite our shared language, we are quite different.