Harry & Meghan, all welcome (aka positive thread, now renamed!)

[Roussette]

Here we are, let's inform, discuss, share and respect.

[HarryDaylight]

and the royal staff think she’s rude because it’s not the simpering, deferential ‘if it’s not too much trouble’ British mannerisms they are used to.

Simpering and deferential? Really? I suspect the the Royal Family treat their staff with respect and courtesy.

[Myimaginarycathadfleas]

@HarryDaylight

and the royal staff think she’s rude because it’s not the simpering, deferential ‘if it’s not too much trouble’ British mannerisms they are used to.

Simpering and deferential? Really? I suspect the the Royal Family treat their staff with respect and courtesy.

I can't see Princess Anne simpering to anyone but I'd put money on her being civil to her staff.

[OverUnderSidewaysDown]

I have to wonder if the source of some leaks is Angela Kelly herself. As well as Tiaragate do you remember the story about AK phoning Meghan to inform her that HMQ would be wearing a hat to some event that they were both attending - trying to help Meghan so that she’d know she should wear a hat too? And Meghan’s reply was that she wasn’t going to be wearing one.
Meghan could have had a lot of help from AK, who not only knows the correct clothing protocol for royal occasions but also is a very skilled dressmaker who would have known how to make Meghan’s clothes fit properly. (Meghan is short waisted hence the way her tight fitting dresses bunch up at the waist. Easily fixed by raising the waistline upwards).
It’s a shame Meghan didn’t befriend AK and get her advice.

[BalloonSlayer]

@AnneOfQueenSables

I think they included it in the book so they could claim William was a snob which is odd because 'this girl' isn't particularly snobbish and I imagine all the RF are snobs to a degree, as are many celebs. It's hardly a devastating critique.

"This girl" could sound very dismissive and snobbish with a certain tone of voice (William's, in Harry's opinion) or it could sound ardent and tender in another (eg Harry's in the engagement interview).

It's clearly not just about the actual words.

[Roussette]

Cultural differences are not an excuse not to get along with people though. I know plenty of Americans who come to work in the U.K., fully appreciating that despite our shared language, we are quite different

I think it works both ways. One of my DCs does some work for Disney, US but based here in UK. There are many differences in the working culture yes. Some of the stories she told me were Both her and Disney have to try and understand each others way of working, not easy!

In the case of MM and the royal household, it depends how far apart they were on all of this, each side has to give a bit I feel.

[Roussette]

it’s a shame Meghan didn’t befriend AK and get her advice

Maybe that is just not the 'done thing', we don't know.

[Myimaginarycathadfleas]

I have to wonder if the source of some leaks is Angela Kelly herself.

I strongly doubt this. Apparently HMQ and PP decided to employ her due to her infallible discretion. As I understand it they asked her something concerning her then employer and she politely but firmly declined to answer.

[ButteryPuffin]

@JaJaDingDong @lifestooshort123 please don't hold back from commenting if you want to. This has been set up as a thread where everyone's welcome and there isn't a standard anyone has to come up to. We're just sharing views and thoughts

[ButteryPuffin]

If the Queen has trusted someone to allow them to publish books about their work with her, as is the case with Angela Kelly, I would expect them to be very confident that she is discreet and keeps confidentiality.

[BalloonSlayer]

Oh and adding "this" or "that" before somebody's name is very dismissive.

"I just saw that Sandra."

[TheChristmasPrincess]

@HarryDaylight

and the royal staff think she’s rude because it’s not the simpering, deferential ‘if it’s not too much trouble’ British mannerisms they are used to.

Simpering and deferential? Really? I suspect the the Royal Family treat their staff with respect and courtesy.

Sorry, simpering was probably the wrong word to use! I meant it in a ‘if it’s not too much trouble, do you mind awfully if I could have a cup of tea, if you’re not doing anything else first” sort of way, the way British people tend to speak. When I googled deferential it said polite submission and respect so I thought it would work in this context but again that might have been wrong.

So I shall change it to ‘they are overly polite and respectful when taking to their staff’ (according to CC) as opposed to the sharp, blunt manner that CC assumes Meghan and Americans speak when talking to staff.

🙂🤪

[MissEliza]

By all accounts, they don't get spoken to like that by Andrew- but then again, he's widely disliked isn't he?

[KatherineParr4]

Andrew is apparently rude to everyone.

[AnneOfQueenSables]

It's clearly not just about the actual words
Yy quite. That's why it's so odd the way they have written that section of the book and by 'they' I mean the book authors just in case that needs to be stated

As for the cultural differences, I'm not sure H was best placed to explain them to M. It's more likely she explained to him what it's like to have a job in the real world and H would then have questioned the parameters that he's been told were standard/normal. It comes back to the idea of a princess/prince school as was mentioned on the other thread, to try to bridge that gap between RL and royal life.

[FannyCann]

it’s a shame Meghan didn’t befriend AK and get her advice

I've often wondered why AK didn't offer some early discreet advice to Catherine about managing hemlines of flouncy dresses on windy days - are they not normally weighted down to prevent Marilyn Monroe moments?
Would it have been so far out of protocol to let it be known she'd be happy to advise?
One can only speculate, perhaps she is very clear (at least in her own mind) she works for Her Majesty and isn't the palace go to dress maker and fashion advisor. I'm sure her work is very busy, covering designing and making clothes, curating what must be a vast collection of previously worn outfits; I assume her title as "dresser" probably also literally means just that, HM is elderly, someone must lay out her clothes for the day, assemble the brooches and necklaces accessorising the outfits, help her dress and undress as well as caring for the clothes. Obviously she is head of a team, but I wouldn't expect her to have time when she has nothing better to do than jump to it and tend to the needs of younger Royals. But I still find it surprising that Catherine was left to get on with it and learn the hard way about flimsy dresses, wind and photographers.

[My0My]

The Sgt Wilson approach in Dads Army is what you mean!

Angela Kelly has people working for her. The Royal Gems are worth squillions£. Harry knows that. They are no doubt in vaults. I guess they don’t come out on a quick phone call. Like everything else it’s planned.

It seems amazing, looking back, that Sarah Burton and Kate manages to get through their wedding arrangements without all this fuss. Meghan’s designer Clare Waight Keller would be responsible for fitting Meghan’s dress. AK dresses the Queen.

[My0My]

I think Catherine wanted to be natural and not dressed all the time. She didn’t have many floaty moments and does wear high street brands.

[ButteryPuffin]

Andrew is apparently rude to everyone.

One of the least surprising things I have ever read.

[YouSayWhat]

I don’t think Harry has any clue about dress protocol beyond his personal sphere. And I also don’t think he’s bright enough to figure it out either. It was widely reported that they were offered advice which they didn’t want to take.

[KatherineParr4]

I think this whole debacle has exposed Harry’s weaknesses for the world to see. He comes across as entitled, ignorant, rather dim and weak.

[Roussette]

I think it is unfair to call him dim and ignorant. I've seen that said so many times on threads. Look at his mother, she always said herself she had a brain the size of a pea but she wasn't thick and proved that.

Personally, I think labelling him as 'dim' can be a way for some to then label MM as a schemer who takes advantage of him. I don't see it that way. Being academically blessed is not the be all and end all, you can be good at other stuff. He is far from dim AFAIC. It's insulting.

[Serenster]

I've often wondered why AK didn't offer some early discreet advice to Catherine about managing hemlines of flouncy dresses on windy days - are they not normally weighted down to prevent Marilyn Monroe moments

Are we really back here again? Anyway, you definitely can weigh down hems to make it less likely that they'll blow up in the wind, but it's not infallible. There are a number of photos showing the Queen herself struggling with her skirts in the breeze, which demonstrate that even with best endeavours, you can't control nature.

[TheNavigator]

@KatherineParr4

I think this whole debacle has exposed Harry’s weaknesses for the world to see. He comes across as entitled, ignorant, rather dim and weak.

I think all members of the royal family are entitled and ignorant - how can they not be? Born into immense privilege, with servants and arcane ceremonies, curtsying and bowing, no experience of how most people live. I don't think Harry can be singled out for this, it applies them them all, including the queen.

It is well reported he is not academic, but that doesn't mean he is dim. He may be weak, I don't know as I don't know him. I am sure like all of us he has his strengths and weaknesses.

[AnneOfQueenSables]

Yy I don't think he's any more or less dim than anyone else in his family. Marrying someone from a different culture is a steep learning curve.

My DH is from a different culture and we have had many, many conversations over the years when our cultural expectations and different upbringings bump against each other.

MN is another example actually. Look at all the threads where posters assume the OP is in England and advise accordingly. But, those of us in Scotland are left saying 'our legal system is different; our education is different; our history is different; our idioms are different, etc'. You don't even think of those differences until you hit up against them.

[KatherineParr4]

I would have agreed that Harry wasn’t dim at the beginning of all this, but I have come to the conclusion that he has poor judgement and doesn’t think anything through.