More News on Harry and Meghan

[Viviennemary]

Two little bits of news I read today. First the bells won't ring out at Westminster Abbey for Meghans birthday next month and she'll be devastated. No I don't think she'll even expect them to ring. And I had to smile at Bogart the dog was left behind in Canada because it didn't take to Harry. What else could she do. Hardly leave Harry behind. And it would have been a worry with a baby in the house too. She did the right thing here.

@MissEliza

Serenster listening to Sky News, I came to the same conclusions. It seems this procession issue made them particularly angry but I don't know why they would imagine they would be joining senior royals when they were walking away from the institution. It's quite deluded and suggests people who are unable to see things from others people's perspectives.

I wonder whether they felt that they were still technically senior royals at this point so should have been treated in the same way, especially since (if I understand it correctly) they were part of the procession the previous year. I can see why they would have seen it as a snub but equally can see why the others wouldn’t have wanted (or perhaps though they wanted) them there.

I meant your deliberate misinterpreting which you’ve just confirmed, yet again

Oh do stop this. I have no idea what I am misrepresenting. I have read and re-read what I've said and honestly and truthfully do not know what you're talking about. I followed a PP saying let's move on from the pap shot subject and I reiterated I would be too.
You have said personal things about me liking to antagonise, wanting to 'yet again' deliberately misrepresent and so on. Unfair and untrue. Not once have I cast aspersions about you and, for me now, enough is enough.
Let's move on please

The telling part, if true, is that they felt “used” by the institution for their popularity.

It implies that they think their popularity was theirs to use for their own benefit, first and foremost. Which implies that they think they are an entity separate from the RF, and that their popularity was intrinsic to them as individuals. That the RF owes them thanks lending them their inherent popularity. To believe the rest of it, they think the RF feels threatened by their popularity.

The were/are popular only because of their royalty. If Harry were a politician, an army general, an academic or plumber or accountant or whatever, and MM the actress she was, nobody would know about the wedding or care about them as a couple. They were photographed and followed because they were senior members of the RF. They owe their popularity to the RF, not the other way round. It was their job to put that popularity - lots of it garnered at the taxpayer’s expense around the time of their wedding - to the benefit of the RF (who apparently exist for the benefit of the people).

This is so basic a concept, you have to wonder if the claim is true.

I agree Rose that was absolutely gobsmacking, the reference to the Google analytics.

If this book doesnt represents their views or those around them I think it is really important that they take the same sort of aggressive stance against it they have with other reporting.

But who is deemed more popular than who isn’t of interest to the RF as a working institution. It’s irrelevant. It’s only relevant to the people who want to make something of it and seek change. M and H.

Surely if Meghan had stayed she could have visited anywhere she wanted to. It’s not true to say the RF visit white areas. M could have championed black and other ethnic minority dc. There are many community initiatives for better housing, black art and education charities she could have added to her portfolio. But she didn’t. She doesn’t appear to be able to see beyond her monetarised view of life and has wasted her opportunity in GB to have broadened the portfolio of charities.

Yes, Harry wanted out years ago. Princess Anne is a spare but she’s forged a meaningful life. It’s the men who struggle! Andrew and Harry in particular.

Her outfit was fine! Honestly! People are allowed to have individual taste and she looked fab. I don’t think W time thought green wasn’t ok. It’s the Comminwealth. Full of colourful national costumes. It wasn’t a funeral. Leave her clothes out of this. She’s done her best on that front.

They were/are popular only because of their royalty.... They were photographed and followed because they were senior members of the RF. They owe their popularity to the RF, not the other way round

I completely agree, Rose. I completely see however that that must have been very difficult for Meghan in particular to understand. She'd spent her adult life working her up up the greasy pole of fame and fortune in Hollywood where - as we can all see - adulation means you've made it. And here she is seeing crowds ten-deep every time she makes an appearance, celebrities keen to hang out with her, millions watching her wedding (and googling her...). She must have genuinely thought that she'd made it, that this was all because of her, rather than because of who she was marrying and the position she was suddenly placed in. And I suspect she wasn't around long enough to realise that the adulation derives from the institution, not the individual. I had actually thought at the outset that someone needed to let her know that she really just needed to stick out the press crap for 10 years or so, until the next generation were out and about, and she wasn't the new, glamorous royal then she and her family could have a nice quiet, ultra-privileged life. But maybe the" Vipers" did, and she hated them for it?

@My0My

But who is deemed more popular than who isn’t of interest to the RF as a working institution. It’s irrelevant. It’s only relevant to the people who want to make something of it and seek change. M and H.

Surely if Meghan had stayed she could have visited anywhere she wanted to. It’s not true to say the RF visit white areas. M could have championed black and other ethnic minority dc. There are many community initiatives for better housing, black art and education charities she could have added to her portfolio. But she didn’t. She doesn’t appear to be able to see beyond her monetarised view of life and has wasted her opportunity in GB to have broadened the portfolio of charities.

Yes, Harry wanted out years ago. Princess Anne is a spare but she’s forged a meaningful life. It’s the men who struggle! Andrew and Harry in particular.

I don't think you're correct about this.

Who is deemed more popular is of more importance to the royal family than anything else. The focus has to be on the heirs, and their wives, not the spares. That's how the institution will survive. You can't have the wife of a spare setting her own agenda. They have to fall in with the rest of the family and know their place.

Megan DID champion BAME causes. That was my point. Royals can't pick and choose which ethnicities they support. As a working royal she would have to work with causes she no doubt considered boring, in non-BAME parts of the UK. It's clear from the work she did do - mostly urban, with BAME and women, that being royal would never have worked for her. She wanted photo ops with the Grenfell charity, with kids in Brixton, writing messages on bananas for prostitutes, going to hear Michelle Obama give a speech. All of those causes are political. They're great for an actress wanting to raise their profile. But the royals are meant to stay out of politics. She even wore the colours of the Republic of Ireland flag on a visit to Northern Ireland. She was determined to make it all about her.

It's much worse for the male spares than the women. In that world, women are expected to get marry and have kids, with maybe a part-time interest on the side. But the men have to DO something. If your older brother has taken all the high-profile causes and you're not supposed to take the limelight away from him, it must be pretty difficult to carve out a role.

MissEliza I agree that the Cambridges should have done a lot more to hide their feelings but it is a special skill. My husband for example, turns on the spark no matter who he meets and those people would never know how he really feels about them. I would have expected better from Wills and Kate tbh.

But I thought Megan's dress was beautiful. I love green...it's my favourite and I think anyone who wears it looks good so I might be biased.

In fairness @MrHatMancock many of us in the North of Ireland LIKE the colours of Ireland and don't see them represented here anywhere near enough...in a handful of years we will be the majority population here. No problem with Megan there.

Oh the outfit was stunning. Green is my favourite colour. I just thought it was too juicy for the occasion.

i've read the articles in The Times today and agree it seems a fairly accurate reflection on what has gone on and it surprisingly fairly critical of H&M and has alot of the RF point of view.
I wonder if the authors don't want to piss off the RF too much - especially OS. Afterall he is still here in the UK and the Harpers royal correspondent and with H&M in LA he is not going to get much to talk/write about if the rest of the RF blank him.

I agree with everyone that H&M thought they were the stars in the RF and could't accept being down in the pecking order.

I wonder if Harry ever put himself in the shoes of his cousins when he has always been elevated above them in the past or Edward for example - who is the Queens son after all - and yet comes below Harry in the pecking order. Did Harry ever feel bad about that?
Bet he never thought for a moment that was anything other than the natural way of things. Yet does not like it when it applies to him

I read an article that Diana and Charles were always very keen for william and harry to be treated equally - maybe that has given Harry a false sense that he was/is more important to the RF than he really is.
I understand why Diana and Charles would want their sons to be treated equally as children but william and his wife/ family were always going to be the most important one.
It seems the queen did bring up her 4 children knowing Charles was the heir as Anne and Edward certainly do not have delusions of grandeur and accept their place in the hierarchy for them and their children.

But H could have carved out a role with The Services . His Invictus Games initiative was brilliant . He would also - probably - have inherited D of E’s remaining roles .
M could have worked with BAME groups as well as other groups. I am sure Theatre Groups

would have welcomed her support.
As far as clothes are concerned , I thought her green outfit was stunning but my understanding was that HM had asked ladies to wear red, white or blue ? Similarly , at Louis ‘s christening it was clearly a blue/ cream colour scheme but M decided to wear olive ( not one of her better choices ) .
To some people these colour schemes are ridiculous but in the RF it is clearly important .

Well I suggest Princess Anne has carved out a role. Meghan might have done a few visits but not got involved in an ongoing way. She didn’t have to be political but the RF always finds a way around this. I do think they try to be inclusive though. Not set up black against white for example.

If the focus is on heirs, the popularity of M and H was irrelevant to the RF! The Queen surely doesn’t receive reports on social media hits?!!! I think, over the years, the RF have had to change to being in tune with public feeling and Charles has had a reason to rebuild after Diana, but that’s so they can do a better job. The Queen has tried to understand public sentiment better so as not to appear distant. Their changes and adaptations didn’t seem to be about social media popularity and money. More about developing a more modern monarchy to
meet need and swerve criticism. Very different rationale to M and H.

Thought Kate wore the Ireland colours as well? . To be honest I don’t think Meghan only wanted to focus on BAME causes, smart works for example caters to everyone. The Grenfell kitchen I thought consisted of all kinds of people but because most people affected by the Grenfell disaster were from BAME background maybe that’s why they were featured. I think the way they went about the announcement was impulsive and stupid as they burned so many bridges on their way out. I understand why William especially was hurt , this is his brother but it seems like Harry & Meghan were only thinking About themselves at that point. I think it will take a very long time for these two brothers to move past this, and I hope some day they do. This book will surely not help matters between the two.

@IHeartSusanDey

In fairness *@MrHatMancock* many of us in the North of Ireland LIKE the colours of Ireland and don't see them represented here anywhere near enough...in a handful of years we will be the majority population here. No problem with Megan there.

If you were being fair you would acknowledge there are two communities, not just your own. Northern Ireland is part of the UK and the British royal family are very welcome. The only exception is when they get involved in politics. Megan is the only one who has ever been stupid enough to do so.

I didn't personally like that green outfit - or maybe for me it has just become synonymous with the elephant in the room of that occasion. I don't think it fitted her very well (not like that fabulous blue number she wore for the 'umbrella' shot) and you could see the outline of a strapless bra.
Sophie Wessex blanked them during that service too, but Edward looked as if he was being very matey. So either he's just better at hiding his feelings or he didn't have any particular antipathy towards them.

i also think they misunderstood their role. The RF is not a brand, a commodity/ celebrity/ tourist attraction

It is the very foundation of the way our constitution works, the way we structure our governance, at the heart if everything. It is fundamental.

We don't have a presidential system like the French/ Americans

We have royalty / head of state (the queen) and a prime minister, house of commons/lords etc

I really didn't like the green outfit but I have a total aversion to these cape things
Personally, I like her style, but not on this occasion.

I wonder what has happened to all those clothes. Where are they now? She will never wear them again, clearly. All that money!!!!

I have acknowledged it @MrHatMancock YOU haven't.

Ultimately I don't blame them for leaving the RF, far from it I respect people for wanting to strike out on their own. The major problem I have with these two is that they desperately cling to their titles.

I know they don't use their HRH's (they've certainly kept them though) but they definitely tried their best to use the term ''Royal'' and they actively use their titles of Dukue & Duchess. It's completely hypocritical and the exact opposite of the mantra they consistently preach to others about progressiveness, women's empowerment, equality and correcting the racist wrongs of historical systems that places some people above others.

It's breathtaking hypocrisy to see them trading on titles that are completely antithetical to what they preach about how society should be in the 21st century. Their titles are a relic of feudalism and are fundamentally anti-democratic and anti-meritocratic. The Cambridges know this, the Queen knows this for goodness sake and it's why they never, ever get political.

Harry himself (not to mention Prince Charles and even worse Andrew) is a poster boy for the absolute stupidity of an institutional monarchy. He is utterly, utterly mediocre. The fact that he, his father and uncles are elevated to high status by accident of birth shows everything that's wrong about this redundant system.

I've spent the majority of my life ignoring the RF but if anything comes of the Sussex soap opera, I hope it's the final eradication of publicly funding this privately immensely wealthy family. Why can't they be like other European royals who are still around but not publicly funded or allowed to have ''pretend'' powers (the royal prorogative powers over parliament). I actually think this will gradually happen during Charles's reign.

In terms of Harry's role, he had said multiple times that he would love to go to live and work in Africa. I notice that never transpired. I am guessing Meghan would have been less keen, and I've seen it said that she was probably the barrier to that. However, I'm now starting to wonder. All this talk of how Harry had wanted to quit royal life for ages, before even meeting Meghan - ok, so why didn't he? The Africa plan would have been very achievable. He could have worked out a set up where he spent most of his time there working for Sentebale or similar and popped back at intervals to do military or Invictus stuff. (My inner Mills and Boon fantasist is imagining him falling in love with an aid worker who teaches him the true meaning of work and happiness, but I may be thinking too much of the Carter /Kem storyline in ER, and that didn't work out too well in the end..)

This makes me think that he's been inclined to moan about his lot and talk up the idea that he wants out, but has been far less keen on actually doing that and leaving his comfortable life behind. Enter Meghan, and at first he sees a new way of being royal but that also allows him to indulge his fantasy. Then, however, she becomes disillusioned, and now he loses his excuse not to leave and has to act on it. All the half-in half-out stuff could be entirely down to Harry wanting to have his cake and eat it. Meghan seems much more like a clean break sort of person, to try not to put that too negatively. She's happy to walk away when she's done with something. I don't see her being the one putting the case for their original 'split their time between the UK and North America' - she seems fine with LA. Harry, though, would in this view of things have been much keener to hedge his bets. He has got mileage out of the idea that he is unhappy and wants to quit, but it now looks to me like an idea that suited him more as a fantasy / threat than as something he actually wanted to follow through on. What he really wanted was to be told he was important after all and that he should stay. Meghan, however, took his apparent feelings at face value. And here we are.