Crocker puppy - your views?

[BarbieCaravan]

We’re a family of 5 and have been considering getting a dog for some time now. The children are now teens and pre-teen (ie can help walk) and I mostly WFH. We live close to a large park and generally, although life is busy, we could realistically get a dog.

I’m not a massive dog person but DH (who grew up with dogs) and children are keen. I would prefer a rescue but understandably shelters aren’t keen to rehouse to families.

A Sprocker girl puppy has come up (cocker spaniel / Springer Spaniel) and in theory seems perfect. However, I am nervous about their energy when I do have to work at home and not entertain a puppy all day! We can walk it minimum 3 times a day realistically, maybe more. We have a large garden too.

Any insights? I don’t want to make a massive mistake!

I'll tell you what my Mum told me when I was questioning whether I should get a Springador puppy (Labrador x Springer spaniel) so similar energy and madness!

I said to her I don't know if I am about to make the worse mistake of my life or the best decision of my life, she said it will be both, and she was correct!

I'd say as long as both adults are fully on board and committed and to the same strategy, you train it hard and the kids are strictly told they must be involved too. You'll be fine. Well you'll massively regret it some days but also you'll wonder how you could ever live without the dog other days.

I also worked from home fulltime, and found she was actually rather calm when it was just me at home and she slept a lot, she went bananas eating socks and biting things (though not the furniture) when my lively children and noisy husband came home.

Good luck!

Thanks again. I only have 3 children btw. Family of 5. Youngest is 9 so not young and all can be sensible. It was a bit rushed yesterday as friend was excited about their puppy but we haven’t agreed to anything.

Maybe we’ll look again at rescues. I do feel it’s a moral obligation not to breed dogs for profit but I am also nervous about getting an “unknown” older dog.

If you go to a good rehoming centre, the dog won't be "unknown".
Good luck!

Ive had 2 working cockers and some of the descriptions above are very narrow - never had any issues with either other than being a bit of a sod with night training in the first 2 weeks.

But, I am very firm with mine, he knows the rules and they are enforced at all times in reference to heel walking, recall, furniture, jumping up etc etc - even as a grown dog. We always follow approaches such as we go through doors first, he is made to move if in the way and he eats after us - he was left on his own from quite a young age so has no separation anxiety and exposed to as many noises, textures, experiences as possible so he isn't scared of fireworks, cars etc

I don't like formal puppy classes and I did all training with him myself

I do feel it’s a moral obligation not to breed dogs for profit but I am also nervous about getting an “unknown” older dog.

People need to make a profit to live though. To afford their dogs. To keep their mortgage payments. There's a very large middle ground between extortion and puppy farming, and breeding for profit.

You really can't throw our phrases like that without thinking about the nuance behind what is given up/the cost of raising a litter when it's done right.

I made a 'profit' off my last litter. Once I factored in the months I had to take off work as unpaid leave (and subsequent loss of salary), the cost of raising the puppy's, it very quickly meant that the over £25K that I 'made' in profit from the sale of those puppies..turned into slightly less £3K.

And once you think about the fact I slept on a matrress in the whelping room for over 5 weeks, waking up every hour or so to clear the whelping area, to check on mummy and pups etc, house training them, socialising them...it works out at far less than minimum wage for those 8 weeks work. In terms of profit to workload...I'd be better off sticking to my day job. The amount of work I put into raising that litter - literally blood, sweat and tears - is why 'good' breeders only have a litter a year or less. It's the puppy farmers churning out litters who are breeding for 'profit' in the way I hope you are thinking of, not people like me.

So yes. I breed for profit. I also breed once every 3-4 years, pour my blood sweat and tears into that litter, have some of the most extensively health tested dogs with the best scores of their breed, and have homes lined up long before my bitch is even pregnant.

Perhaps you (and others), OP, are aware of that, but it does get my back up when people speak of 'a moral obligation not to breed dogs for profit' in such clear cut terms.

I’ve got the most amazing working cocker, she’s 5 now and full on when outside, she needs off lead walk every day and lots of mental stimulation but she a lap dog indoors, cuddly and sits on my knee or by my side, I’ve just had a 3 hour teams meeting and she was laid by me the whole time, but we put the work in as a puppy, training every day and teaching her to have an off switch when needed.
They are beautiful dogs but they need the work putting in

I had a chat to DH the other week about what to do when we lose our older boy but I'm nervous about rescuing an older dog as you really don't know what they've been exposed to. My only criteria would be a breed specific rescue where the dog has been in a foster home and not in kennels - you've got no idea of the behaviour that will follow them home from that constant stress level. A family friend fosters for Many Tears and they've had some really difficult dogs over the years as they just not used to human interaction let alone living in a house. I would never risk that with children in the home.

It's a tough one but if you've got kids, I'd nearly always say puppy as they will grow and learn together and it's a magical (though often testing) journey seeing a dog into adulthood.

Sorry @TheHungryHungryLandsharks but I think you are taking offence when none was intended. I think the OP means people who breed for profit and profit alone. Or profit being the number 1 reason for breeding at least.
I think you would say you breed to enhance the breed and need to make a profit otherwise you couldn't do it.

Get a rescue. Your kids are old enough. So much better than paying a breeder. A sprocker would be serious work too.

I wouldn’t recommend one for a first dog, or even a second one. They are very high energy and do best as a working dog.

A much better choice would be a miniature poodle. They are low energy, loving and whip smart. Mine was incredibly easy as a puppy. No chewing, quick to settle and so easy to house train.

I totally agree. Its a thing with breeding all sorts of animals for pet homes, obviously most prevalent with dogs but you see it in cats, horses etc. In the quite understandable rush to condemn indiscriminate, poor quality, greedy backyard puppy farmers, you do lose the nuance that responsible commercial breeders play a vital role in providing people healthy, well looked after pets - and often once you consider by how far they can be undercut by the puppy farmers who will cut costs at every conceivable opportunity, they don't even make much profit. I think you ought to be praised and thanked personally rather than chasisted for what profit you do make.

I do understand why people who can't or don't want to rescue are encouraged to look at people who breed primarily for show or working purposes so not commercial per se, but in some breeds/types in particular that can result in dogs that are almost as unhealthy and unsuited for a pet home as a puppy farm product. I'd say the sprocker mentioned in the thread is a prime example, I know some people who breed these perfectly responsibly, for gundog trialling purposes, they do all the right health checks and select the parents very carefully, but for the traits they specifically want, high work drive, high energy and stamina, lots of intelligence and loyalty. They do sell the pups who don't /won't make the working grade as pets but for people not familiar with the breed or living a specific lifestyle they're definitely not easy, and why would they be, they're bred specifically to run through woods and fields working all day every day, they're never going to be happy sitting at your feet 12 hours a day with a 1 hour on lead stroll which is all many people can sensibly manage...

I'd have no problem at all personally buying a puppy that was deliberately bred for no purpose other than being a pet, and to pay a fair price which included an element of recompense for the time and labour of the breeder as well as the actual costs involved, so long as I could be sure the mating had been well planned for health and temperament of the puppies and that all dogs involved were properly looked after. I don't see why breeders should have to operate as charities after all. The trouble is for an inexperienced person sifting through all the various different levels of commerciality, from the large scale blatant farmers to the clueless hobbyist who sniffs a quick buck from their own pet bitch to the well disguised rip off merchants, is really really hard, and hence why the standard advice is to run a mile from a sniff of commerciality...

Springers are very high energy and cockers are high energy but show cockers are easier to manage. We had a blue roan show cocker mixed with a westie until recently and while she had the usual hyper puppy behaviour she was the most chilled, stoic dog you would ever meet once she got over adolescence. Insanely stubborn, very intelligent so you needed to be on your toes to prevent mischief. I know those characteristics sound a bit contradictory but she was a living contradiction.

In my experience, blue roans are less hyper than golden or black cockers (family and friends have had all of them). I would definitely go for a blue roan show cocker again.

I'm not sure you can say it's a vital role.
Also, @TheHungryHungryLandsharks reported some weeks ago that a fellow breeder bred a GR and that dog is now being used to produce labradoodles. It obviously could have happened with one or more of her dogs too.
So, it's not as clear cut as you are saying either I don't think.

I agree with this, @TheHungryHungryLandsharks . I may be wrong (don't think I am), but I believe you breed for the good of the breed. The fact you make a small profit at the end of it is not one of the reasons for doing it.

@BarbieCaravan If you go through a rescue that uses foster homes, you have more of an idea of the true personality of the dog. I'd try breed specific rescues first, rather than one of the big general ones.

@redboxer321 I'd love to think so. But I think a lot of people think all breeders are greedy and in it for profit. So even if OP didn't mean it, chances are someone on this thread thinks it...so it warrants saying regardless (if only as I'm dramatic and love to read my own words)!

And thank you @SpanielsGalore

I’m not intending to offend people. Clumsy wording on my part. Your set up doesn’t sound remotely like a puppy farm @TheHungryHungryLandsharks. I appreciate the time taken to provide advice.

I think in your set up it’s definitely doable, spaniels are v v popular. They are generally friendly, trainable and fun dogs. All dogs need plenty of training, exercise and mental stimulation so as long as the whole family is on board I think you’d be fine.