Where do I start looking, and how?

[AMansAManForAllThat]

How do I vet a potential puppy for not being from a farm? I’ve always gone rescue, but there don’t seem to be many suitable available in my area at the moment. We have just had a visiting dog and it’s made me a bit impatient- also it was miles easier than our rescues were! It seemed so well balanced in comparison!

So if I did want to ‘buy’ a puppy rather than adopt a rescue, where do I start? I had a bedlingtonXlurcher so was drawn to the bed/whippet crosses.

Then had a quick look and saw this…
https://www.pets4homes.co.uk/classifieds/cpy61awlt-bedlington-terrier-puppy-ct-clear-nottingham/

Don't look on pets4homes for a start. There are too many dodgy breeders and puppy farms on there. Can you find an organisation that specialises in rescued whippets/Bedlingtons?

Yes, I realise that @Purplewoodpecker . But thank you for the reminder. I googled Bed Terriers and looked at breed descriptions and care etc and that add leapt out as it’s nearby. I momentarily thought perhaps it was meant to be, but realise it’s ridiculous!

Thing is, people challenge the breeder if they didn’t already have homes lined up for a litter, so ‘having available puppies is basically a red flag.
How do I get to be someone who’s on a list for a responsibly bred dog?

That 'breeder' is also selling puppies on facebook marketplace for £800. So not someone I would purchase from...

Best bet would be your local breed club and get a list of breeders and cross-check with the kennel club. Then go for breeders that only produce one litter 2-3 years or so (otherwise chances are they're over-breeding. Most 'breeders' either breed every 2-3 years or every few months, there's literally no inbetween), only breeders from fully health tested dogs, doesn't breed the dog before it's 3 or after it's 6, doesn't have more than two litters etc.

Sorry to be dim, but how did you find her on Facebook? That’s the kind of thing I don’t know how to do.

Snobbishly, I have an aversion to anyone starting with ‘Here I have…’ because it sounds like a sales pitch or a market trader.

I think I need to stick to rescues. I was just momentarily tempted.

@AMansAManForAllThat googled the name attached to the Pets4Home link and it popped up on facebook.

Honestly, a quick breeder of any breeder who advertises online and not on Champ Dogs or the Kennel Club (so particularly those who you think are suspect) will usually throw up a lot of information.

Call me cynical, but the only reason I can think of for not registering a single pup is it means you can have 5 litters from one bitch instead of 4.

You could try the Midland Bedlington Terrier Club. They have an Open Show on the 26th September in Corley. That's a good way to meet breeders.

https://www.thembtc.co.uk/

That’s amazing thank you! I’m starting to see more, the more I look. But definitely need to hone my eye for the red flags.

I wouldn’t rule out pets4homes as people advertise on there who only have an occasional litter. Champ dogs require annual membership and are very much geared to people who breed a lot of dogs.
I would not want to be allocated a pup before it’s born or soon after. You cannot tell a dogs personality until about 6 weeks old. So a breeder could be giving a family a nervous quiet dog and an older couple an outgoing live wire. A breeder might end up with pups that don’t match potential homes.
Deposits, no one should accept a deposit for an animal ever as buyers then feel they can’t change their mind. Any decent breeder would prefer you to change your mind and not have the animal and yes it means you’ve got to be happy to keep the animal as a breeder.

A chap has just offered a pup at 9 weeks, not had her vax due to vet system going down but can give me a discount to get it done here, or he’ll try and get her done one day this week.
I said no thanks. Asked nothing about me or my home.

@Sheep85 the thing is, I would argue that if someone breeds occasionally they should have a wait list if the litters they are producing are any good given how few litters out there of many breeds are actually fully health tested, low COI and bred for purpose and not from bad breeders. TBH I also go as far as to think no one should be breeding without homes available (and yes, buyers fall through but that’s rare if you’ve done your due diligence as a breeder. I’ve had one family pull out in 20 years of breeding).

So really there’s no need to use a dodgy site likes Pet4Homes at all. My current wait list (bearing in the girl I will breed from next is only one and won’t be bred from for at least another two years but possibly three) already has three people on it. By and large the only litters I see advertised (although this is a popular breed) are from breeders I wouldn’t touch with a barge pole. Of the 40 litters on KC last month selling GR puppies…I’d have gotten a puppy from one.

Personally, I didn’t even advertise my last two litters on the KC as my wait list was long enough to cover the litter (and still have people waiting). I’ve also been able to tell personalities as early as 4 weeks (admittedly mine is a large breed that develops fast in the early week) so by week 6 I already have a good idea of which puppy is going to which family based off their personality and the families needs.

I also take deposits once the family are happy with the puppy they’ve been matched with (between six and seven weeks) so I can let others on my wait-list who haven’t been matched know that they need to look elsewhere or their wait might be another three years. It also stops time wasters, and chancers, of which there are loads.

Thats just my personal perspective as a breeder.

@AMansAManForAllThat FWIW, breed club are a good shout (I should have remembered that but I’m tired so totally forgot yesterday). It’s always tempting when you’ve decided ‘I want a dog now’ (because you’re ready sooner than you expected to be) so think whatever is available will be great, but it rarely is. There’s a reason the ‘best’ breeders have waitlists 😊

I count 4 red flags there. Could he not think up a more believable story than the vet system being down for at least a week?

Not being vaccinated at 8 weeks wouldn't be a red flag for me. Neither of my last two puppies were. Some breeders stopped vaccinating as the buyers were finding the vaccination their vet used wasn't compatible with the one used by the breeder's vet. So they were having to restart the course. But those breeder's are honest about it.
Puppy being 9 weeks old and a made up story is a different matter.

Re deposit - I've never known a breeder not want a deposit. They want to protect their own interests too and ensure people are committed to the puppy. But never pay a deposit for a puppy you haven't met.

Good luck with your search.

Hm... not always.

Certainly, any sensible and reliable breeder will have some homes lined up before the mating, will add more people to the list during gestation - and might have 7 or 8 people on the list and then end up with a litter of 12 (scans are not wildly reliable, a friend of mine was told 3 and his bitch had 8 puppies. People also put their names down and then pull out - that happened to someone I know who is well-known in the breed and who has bred some remarkable dogs.

Asked nothing about me or my home.
THAT is a huge red flag. One of our dogs was from an ad on P4H. I did my due diligence on the breeder (read pedigrees of dam and sire, saw videos of dam working, stalked the breeder's FB page, talked to him at length about health, visited twice before the puppy came home, etc etc etc) and he did his on me (acquainted himself with my FB page, had a long convo with us about what we did with our dogs in terms of exercise etc, did a home visit). He made it clear to us that anybody he wasn't happy with would not be getting one of his puppies.

I would I use P4H again? Not without doing my due diligence, even more thoroughly this time (because I know more). And probably not, because I know a lot of people involved in the breed now, and would have a discussion with someone whose dogs I liked a year or more before being ready for the next one.

i don’t completely agree that a good breeder always has wait lists.
we were after a specific breed so contacted the breeder of my mums dog.
She was, and still is, the top breeder of this dog and considered the absolute best expert.
I had a couple of chats with her when we decided to go for it.
I asked her specifically about things I should look out for and that I’d seen litters available.
she told me that often one off breeders will only advertise once the pups are here and they know the individual temperament.
we went forward on this basis and found our boy.
he wasn’t advertised until he was six weeks old.
But we did have to go through quite rigorous conversations with his breeder when she quizzed us in great detail and likewise gave us the opportunity to ask our own questions.
Maybe we got lucky, but it’s not necessarily true that pups are ‘booked’ pre conception

I will not buy any kc registered puppy and if it is I request de registration asap prior to buying . Kc registration is a con. They are in my eyes an inappropriate, old fashioned cruel society. You may have to wait a while until you get what you want we did . Go to rescues specialising in your chosen breed and ask your local vets or your dog groomer for recommendations.

You register interest with the breeder and when they have approved you, and have a puppy that they think will be right for you, they let you know. Some require a small deposit early on. Others a larger deposit when they have an actual puppy in mind for you.

One I’m talking to now, the mum is KC registered, copper tox tested. Dad is a family pet elsewhere.

We found our breeder on the Kennel Club website. We’ve gone on to have 2 pups from her.

That is beyond performative. KC registration is the only way you can be 100% sure that your puppy is not the product of cousins (and thus horribly inbred). It's also the only way you can 100% be sure the health tests are verified(lots of puppy farmers fabricate them, if they have done them at all).

So it's not a con.

You might not like what has happened to particular breeds. And I have my quibbles with the KC, but quite frankly they are the easiest and most reliable way to finds a puppy that isn't horribly inbred or prone to a whole health of life-limiting issues.

I'll just give you one piece of advice, OP: slow down!
I understand you're keen to get a dog but buy in haste, repent at leisure as they say or something like that.
I'd also do as suggested above and talk to Midland Bedlington Terrier Club.

Better still, widen your search area and rehome a dog who desperately needs someone to reach out to them.

Sadly I can’t get to the Midlands bedlington event- it clashes with a 3 line whip event 3 hours away.

I should be looking at terrier rescues though, you’re right @redboxer321 .

The thing is, there are lots of small rescues and you need to know how to find them! Googling doesn’t seem to do it, as they don’t always have a base building- more a network.

And you need to move quite quickly with a rescue, whereas the puppy should have a bit more notice!

But it’s always been my intention to adopt. My head is being turned by a cross I love. We were introduced to a rescue recently but he was too much of a challenge for us. He had a lot going on, bless him. It’s a bit of a roller coaster, emotionally, constantly watching rescue pages in the hope someone suitable appears and having to say no to all the others.

@AMansAManForAllThat
That's a shame that you can't make it.
Are you wanting a puppy from rescue? Or an older dog?
I don't think you have to move fast for an older dog but there is a lot of competition for pups.
If you ideally want a cross - bed x sighthound? - then you definitely need to go down the rehome route. There is no justification for a breeder to produce x breeds imo.
But if you like lurchers, there's loads of those in rescue. Lovely dogs. I have one (ish) myself.

I do love a lurcher. I’ve only seen bigger ones (light greyhound size), the beddy whippets are smaller.

I’m registering with the Dogs Trust and keeping an eye on my local rescues. And keeping an eye on the litter I enquired about as well.