Pup in bedroom and Recall training reassurance needed please

[Isadora2007]

DDog is now nearly 6 months and due to family bereavement and a planned holiday has had a rather unsettled previous two months involving long journeys and sleeping elsewhere for up to a week each time. As a result, crate training has gone… and he is now sleeping on our floor each night. He sleeps all night and only gets up for a pee when I waken him (at either 4/5 if I get up for one or around 6.30/7 when I get up for work).
Is this an issue? I don’t think I think it is… if that makes sense. If he needed crated eg after an accident or during a bad illness I figure he’d sleep in a crate with us in the room (I’d either move into the spare room where his crate is or move crate into ours). And (sorry for the TMI) we would tend to need to DTD quietly as we have teens in the house so again that not really an issue when he sleeps on the floor… but I still feel a bit ashamed somehow, like I’m failing as a puppy parent. Or like “yeah of course you started to crate training but didn’t see it through”. I don’t know why I even care what other people think… my kids ended up on my bed rather than cots so I’m not that surprised.

Oh and another quick question- recall. Ddog can get off the lead when we go to the park and is generally good to come back when going past people (he won’t go to them unless he is invited by them) and if I see a dog owner in the distance I put him on the lead as he couldn’t walk past a dog off leash and not play…but if there is a dog playing a little away and I walk in a different direction he will not go to the other dog but will follow me… so he is good ish at recall, but how do I work on locking this down to “good” recall… eg if a dog I haven’t noticed suddenly appears near us or a scary dog comes bounding over… any tips? Food isn’t really working as a bribe as he’s gone off most foods. His main thing is closeness to me… he won’t really stray too far a radius from me so me walking away and shouting for him makes him chase to catch me up. Hope that makes sense. He is a poodle/KCS mix.

You're absolutely not failing as a puppy parent - lots of dog and cat owners (whether they admit it or not) have DTD when their pet has been nearby!

And whilst crate training is undeniably useful, it's not the be all and end all of pet ownership. Having a dog that can go in the crate when necessary (as you've suggest, if on crate rest) without a fight is great but personally I am all for dogs in bedrooms and particularly from puppyhood - it means dog and owner get a good night sleep and decent sleep is crucial when dealing with a puppy!

And on recall, if his 'thing' is being close to you. I would give him tonnes of praise, pats and affection whenever he recalls to you so he learns that coming to you gets him what he wants most - your affection. He'll get there on the ignoring other dogs who are playing but it's one of those things that takes time with puppies because all they want to do is play. You could try and do some games at home with him, if you don't already, that involve a bit of running around and him chasing you etc - so he learns he can get play time with you as well.

But honestly, for six month old, he sounds very a happy and well-trained little dog! He's still young, he might have the odd fluke - particularly when he gets to adolescence - but you should be pretty chuffed you've got a 6 month old puppy that already ignores people and dogs in most circumstances and sleeps through the night!😊

You’ve achieved most of what you want from a crate, sleeping calmly, not destroying everything or toileting in the house overnight.

Teaching the command muddle might be good, then he’ll just sit between your legs and be a bit more protected.

On the crate training, I echo what Landsharks said - "And whilst crate training is undeniably useful, it's not the be all and end all of pet ownership"

We have a 6 month old Golden Retriever, never crate trained. But social media/pet forums would have you believe everyone does it and it's the only way to do things, it's not.

Recall we just keep practicing, when no distractions you can practice so those recall words become ingrained (fingers crossed). We reward with high value treat as she's food obsessed. We also go to group training classes which we are enjoying.

I used a crate for my lab puppy until he was about 5 months old. He was never one of those dogs that loved his crate though, I only got him to a place of tolerating it I think. Then I took him on holiday and didn’t bring the crate and he slept with me and snoozed in until 9am so I didn’t bother with the crate and he has slept with me ever since. I don’t have any regrets! It’s also useful when we’ve had nights where he has had an upset stomach, he’s close to me so can alert me to let him out so I don’t get a mess on my bedroom floor!

We never crated. I slept in the living room with her as a puppy until she was potty trained then she has slept in our room ever since. No issues. I think crates are rather unpleasant tbh

My last two puppies both started off in cages overnight, but by around 5 months of age they both had the freedom of the bedroom. One chooses to sleep in a dog bed by the side of my bed. The other sleeps on my bed with her head on the pillows.

The eldest of the two has had to do four lots of crate rest following operations. The most recent one was for 11 weeks. She was fine with being back in a crate.

Recall training sounds like it's going really well. Have you tried high value treats like roast beef or turkey. Or chicken if he can tolerate it. I also rewarded for voluntary check ins, which encourages them to come back of their own accord.
Just be aware puppies recall can become less reliable when they hit adolescence. If that happens, it's not because you have done anything wrong. It's them!

And I may be wrong, but I think ACynicalDad means 'middle', where you teach the dog to sit or stand in-between your legs. But he may use a different word to others.

He sounds great. My boy is 2 now and it’s pretty much as you describe. He sleeps in my room at night moving between the bed and the floor. When we’re out he tends to check in with me - running off and returning back. He’ll play with other dogs that are known to him and comes back to me if he’s not sure. If he catches a scent his recall is much less reliable but we’re working on that.

I broadly agree that dogs in bedrooms can work and that crates have a place but are not essential. With one very important caveat.
If your dog is always with and around you, even while asleep, he is not learning to be comfortable and confident alone. As a behaviourist…..dogs in bedrooms overnight are far more likely to get separation anxiety. Add to that your pup is of some notoriously clingy breeds, I personally wouldn’t advise it unless you also have a considerable amount of time each week where pup is home alone completely happily. Especially at 6 months old. My older, sensible steady adults earn that privilege over time but I don’t do it with puppies personally

On the recall issue- his age and clinginess are working in your favour. For now!
Expect recall to get worse from now on as he matures into an adolescent and morphs into what we call in the trade ‘a complete arse’
Longline,patience,consistency. And gin. Lots and lots of gin

@Dunnocantthinkofone That's interesting. My friend is a behaviourist and she advises the complete opposite.
All of her puppies, including at least a dozen fosters, have slept in or on her bed from day one. She argues that raising a puppy secure in its bonds with you means, when they are older, they are more confident and happy to be left in their own company. Only she explained it better than I just did.

I don’t mean bung them
downstairs and not get them used to it. I sleep with them for as long as it takes and quiet withdraw over time. At that point they are confident and used to at least some alone time. Regularly and reliably every night, several hours worth. Which means problems
with sep anx, which can occur at any point in a dogs life, are less likely
And given the ‘cure’ for separation anxiety is to very gradually get the dog used to being alone, it makes sense to me to do that before an issue as prevention, not after
All trainers/behaviourists will not have the same ideas though obviously!Just like any other profession

I stopped using the crate when she was four months old. She's two and sleeps wherever she chooses now. I cringe at
how i made her stay downstairs locked up all alone when she was just a little dot.

If you want to keep her used to a crate though, you could use one in the car ?

Honestly, don'tlisten to tiktok 🙄 they all have dogs that double as butlers and footmen by the sounds of it. Just have the dog in the room with you.

Honestly that was the hardest thing with a puppy. The training method would be ....

.... whichever trainer you listened to last!

I chased my tail round in circles more than any dog ever has.

The only thing two dog trainers will agree on is what the third one is doing wrong.

I hear you! My advice is generally to find ONE voice who makes sense to you and stick with just that guidance
That’s the trouble with my industry. Totally unregulated and even the ‘qualifications’ often don’t always have any meaning. You can get qualified easily by handing over (vast quantities) cash - you don’t even need to handle a dog AT ALL in some cases to pass as a trainer. It’s a total shit show.

We have 2 young dogs. We never crated them and we never had any problems.We don’t have them upstairs at night, but there’s nothing wrong with it if it doesn’t bother you.

It sounds like your recall is pretty good at the moment. I find it gets a bit worse when they’re in their teenage phase however. One of ours is excellent because he’s completely driven by food. The other is not interested in food so his recall is pretty rubbish - he comes back when he’s ready.

Two of the trainers local to me both 'qualified' during covid lockdowns by doing on line courses and printing off some certificates. Personally I wouldn't touch either of them with a barge pole.
Actually one has given up after being reported for putting an e-collar on a dog and zapping it on full power, but that's another story.

I shared my friend's opinion on sleeping with puppies to show the OP that even behaviourists have different opinions on how to do things. I didn't want her to feel she had done the wrong thing. (And to be fair, your first post didn't explain that you slept downstairs with the puppy. So i did interpret it as leaving them on their own.)

At the end of the day, people have to decide for themselves which advice works best for them and their dog. Hopefully choosing only force free, positive methods.

lol I didn’t explain myself well at all did I?!!

I genuinely interpreted the first post as you'd leave the puppy downstairs on its own, whilst you and the adult dogs enjoyed the luxury of the bedroom. It was like a flashback to the NILIF training era. (If you remember that one.) Which seemed strange, as it went against the grain of all the other advice I have read in your posts.

I actually slept downstairs with puppy 3 to begin with, as she needed letting out in the night for months and we had a nice comfortable sofa bed.
Puppy 4 slept through from night 2 and I was older, so enjoyed the comfort of my own bed.
So I've actually followed both behaviourists' advice. What works for one dog, doesn't necessarily work for another. And as they say, you train the dog in front of you.

Aww I’d never do that to a poor little puppy. I’m actually horrified by the idea!
It’s definitely a lesson in not giving too vague a post though that is open to interpretation - thank you.

I’m a dog sitter and 70% of the dogs I look after sleep in the room with their owners! It’s not something I’d do with my own dog but plenty of people do. At 6 months he shouldn’t need putting out at 4am either, so you can probably do away with that.

In terms of recall, buy the book “total recall” (can probably get on eBay). Most dogs will recall ok if there’s no distractions, but that’s not really good enough. Start getting that right asap.

@SpanielsGalore At the end of the day, people have to decide for themselves which advice works best for them and their dog. Hopefully choosing only force free, positive methods

Totally agree with this. It got so much easier for me when I stopped googling everything and just stuck with one way of doing things that seemed to be working. Can’t remember the last time I watched a dog training YouTube video and I’m much happier for it 😂

@VanGoSunflowers i won't say it ruined my lovely hazy puppy phase with my gorgeous floof... but it definitely soured it a bit.

I just felt so awful i didnt have a dog that walked to heel off lead for miles and recalled from a rabbit to sit between my legs and ignored all other dogs by 15 weeks old 🤯🤯

I spent so much time fretting and stressing and lurching from one training method to another 😢

@BiteSizedLife I was the same, and the irony is as soon as I stopped stressing my dog started listening to me more! They really can pick up on your vibes!
I just kept seeing all this advice on how your dog ‘should’ behave and how to make it happen and I had to stop and think about what I wanted from my dog. Realised I already knew the basic logic behind training after watching so many videos and just worked on it that way. Whatshisface can keep his perfect puppy course at £300 a pop!

Agree and normal length general length lead... - don't get me started on collar, harness, no - collar, actually harness... maybe collar though? Or harness?

Pets at home might not be great in a lot of ways, but I am thankful to the store assistant who said to me "both can be acceptable so choose one and stick with it, because otherwise the dog is just going to be confused"

ETA - my dog was never the kind to choke herself pulling, but of fourse I happened across the all dogs must be in harnesses or they will die type content.

and then the following day - "harnesses encourage pulling"

😂🤡😂🤡😂🤡😂🤡😂

All very reassuring stuff here thank you. I will look at the recall book as I agree the online stuff is so varied and often contradictory it makes things worse.
Poor ddog has a bit of an upset stomach just now (sensitive stomach all the time tbh) as his kibble changed to adult stuff so he’s a bit quieter than usual- but he does seem to be a lot more independent all of a sudden. Like sleeping in a separate room from me during the day compared to previously following me around the house and only sleeping in the same room eg if I was cleaning he’d be at the bathroom door one minute then follow me to the lounge when I hoovered and then to the kitchen while I put on the washing etc. But yesterday when I was cleaning he just chilled out in another room- so maybe a bit less anxious?
we are going to try leaving him alone in the house this week with the aim to be able to go out for 3 hours by Xmas (we have a tradition to go to the cinema on Xmas eve or Xmas eve eve so would like to be able to do this). So will build it up.