Almost 6 month old puppy suddenly fearful of collar and harness

[longtompot]

As the title really. Rosie has always backed away when we were putting it on her, but we thought we were being quiet and gentle with it and involving her by asking for her paw for the harness. But last night she absolutely refused to entertain either going on.
Ive not been able to put it on her this morning so she hasn't had a walk. Instead I have put them both in the floor and any time she has looked at them or gone near I have praised her and rewarded her. I have got as far as putting a treat on her collar and her eating it off it, this is after getting her from just coming to me whilst holding it to her touching it when it was my hand.
Any ideas how to progress from this to putting them on her? And why this might have started? I am wondering if she is finding her walks overwhelming as people are always keen to say hello as she is such a pretty dog, and this is her way of stopping those feelings.

Hi
Sorry if this is a daft suggestion but have you ruled out whether or not the equipment itself is the issue rather than the walk? Could the harness be uncomfortable? Would she tolerate having a lead attached to a collar or have you tried this?

@VanGoSunflowers not daft at all, and something I am looking into. The current harness is just a 1 inch wide webbing one, so could be digging in. She does pull, a work in progress...slow progress...and as such I don't like to have her lead on her collar as she will do herself an injury. I've been looking at ruffwear harnesses this morning which look a bit more comfortable, and having the front d ring might help towards her pulling.
The collar is a leather one, not soft as yet, but I had the same one for my previous dog in a different colour so I know they are alright

Honestly, if she’s been backing away for a while she’s telling you she’s not happy - and puppy this age absolutely should not know that level of fear. They should only know good things. So first thing first is remove the harness. Stop pushing her and making her uncomfortable, all you’re going to do is make her distrust you. Puppy trust is easily broken and is a bugger to get back once it goes.

So unless she’s very small and fragile, just switch to a collar. Harnesses provide too little control over a dog anyway so unless it’s a small and fragile breed (yorkie) you’re always going to be better off with a proper collar. And switch to a fabric collar. Just because your old dog liked a leather one doesn’t mean your new one will.

I’d also say take her out in a sling or something, and make a point of turning away people who try and pat her. Dogs are not toys and people do not have a right to say hello.

A bit of leash pulling is not a reason to use a harness as all it does is exacerbate the issue. A dog can learn walk to heel in a few weeks, max, with a concerted effort. So your best bet is to start training her to walk to heel off lead around the house, in the garden etc, to get her used to it. Then start doing it out and about and if she pulls, just turn away and change direction.

She's a 10kg cocker spaniel so wouldn't fit in a sling, and I couldn't carry her for any length of time now.
We need to be able to use a harness for in the car, so it's not just to help with the pulling.
I worked with her with her collar today and she was fine with me putting it on her. I have decided to keep it on her for now, just taking it off for naps. My previous dog wore hers all the time as I wasn't aware of them being a danger back then, and once I was aware she didn't wear it unless going out of the house. I guess with Rosie she is getting overwhelmed with all the feelings and having the harness and collar put in before a walk is tipping her over. I kept the harness on the floor and any time she sniffed it or went near it I rewarded her and praised her.
She is very much going into her teenage months and being very challenging in amongst moments of wonderful behaviour. I really don't know why she would be so fearful of the harness as I don't think we have done anything to make her so fearful of it.
I agree with you with regards to people and their expectations. I'm a bit more inclined to say no to them but my dh has been taking her out alone and was just caught going in through the park gates. We have talked about getting a yellow leash sleeve saying leave alone in training to see if that helps.
She needs a new collar anyway so what fabric one would you recommend @TheHungryHungryLandsharks ?

Here follows a crap description of how I used to get a harness on my reluctant dog. 😂

My dogs wore fleece, Y shaped harnesses. I would hold a treat in my hand and put my arm through the neck hole of the harness. As the dog took the treat, I slid the harness down my arm and over their head. Then fastened the clips.

I've since seen the trainers on The Dog Academy doing similar. But they hold the harness still and pull the treat backwards, thus luring the dog's head through the harness.

One of mine hated things going over his head, so I bought a harness with an additional side opening. Then the harness sort of wraps around them instead. Perfect Fit and Dog Copenhagen Comfort Air are both good examples.

Mine don't wear collars, but I used to buy Red Dingo ones.

@longtompot I use this one as I like the locking mechanism on them that means they can't just come undone like some do. I always re-check the locking mechanism before a walk, but they're very strong whilst also quite gentle - one of my dogs is 38kg and he has a 'large' and he's yet to break one... https://www.amazon.co.uk/Taglory-Reflective-Adjustable-Collars-Neoprene/dp/B08DTV5P4H/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=PMD89J3BI13G&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.pWmhziICqVQG0KHUPx8g2Pn1O9FmfSwq5cPONiBCjyoL_1xcCbsywHlWirDYZghAfnZnpGSzWic_qdScHLRvVOV9LH0Sd-2T26tMOetX8f0Z_Kq2PtOTnqy9s-qCNhCNR9AblcpmvqxNhRyRtr1lo1dClR3aZP7ex5yq_9fYoqD-H2Bcn-U46ou7FGVdvSkj9HL4likPThmN3PRegzNTLf7ybBVGHJsJheLp6BVUfVtNNy7jX4nhz00vfjIsuqtPLAKwXF-LCuCfhYApqnrQxMgYx8kZbHauBaaVfGt5GJI.OQF0-hyoCIqJUkEmou6NlzVL8_qx6RUphuH2NZLrEcw&dib_tag=se&keywords=dog+collar&qid=1784632661&sprefix=dog+collar%2Caps%2C180&sr=8-1-spons&aref=D4O2RAifuT&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&psc=1

I imagine a cocker would be a Small?

Anything can set them off when they're young. One of mine doesn't like her paws being touched and another one decided one day - at three years old - he was terrified of the boot of the car and now he has to be lifted into the back seat. Cockers are very sensitive though, bless them, so lots of positive reinforcement and praising for little things. A yellow leash/bib might be a good idea though just until her confidence has built up.

I find people are particularly bad with 'family friendly' breeds like cockers and (in my case) retrievers. They know they're typically friendly dogs so they don't have the same...caution they might about approaching as they would do with something like a GSD. It's incredibly frustrating, so I feel your pain!

Thank you for the link, looks a good collar and much cheaper than the harness I was looking at (Ruffwear).
We had a bit of success with a walk earlier using just her short lead & collar. I had the lead behind my legs which one, kept her closer to me and two, stopped me pulling it when she went for something. She actually started to look at me and was listening which was wonderful!
I think I am reluctant to walk her just on this lead for now as I use a long lead with it to let her run around free of me but gives me some security that I can grab it should I need to as her recall is not great. Something we are working on but it's slow going. I've bought a book that was recommended on one of the threads on here, but not got past the intro chapter yet.

despite people believing they are more humane than a collar, many dogs did not get the memo and absolutely detest the feeling of a harness. In every class I teach, at least one puppy develops an aversion to them. One of mine included. She does not ever wear one now and is totally fine.
Would you have room in the car for a small crate to replace the harness?

We would if it was just me, dh & dog in the car but not if either or both of our dds are with us as they both have wheelchairs that take up the whole boot space.
I wonder why some don't like them? Maybe it's just the feeling of being restricted?

Does the harness and collar have clips?

Loads of dogs hate the noise of the clips as they are pushed into place. It is very close to their ears and some dogs find this very uncomfortable.

I would look at restarting with a buckle collar and see how that goes. Also do not tower over the dog when fitting it. Bend dow low or squat low. Put treats on the floor so the dog extends their neck which makes it easier to put on and not so intimidating for the dog

The collar is a leather buckle one, Ancol brand. I have now bought the one linked above and she was happy wearing it today even with the buckle being clipped behind her ears.
The harness has one clip on the back, and it's not an over head one, it's a step into one. It does have buckles. We don't tower over her, we try to have her on the sofa and we crouch down, or if she is on the floor, we kneel on the floor.

We had a really good evening walk, the morning less so, but it looks like tiredness plays a huge part on how she will behave on her walks. Used the lead sleeve saying keep away puppy in training and a neighbour, not known, came across the road to say hello! Even me saying we are trying to stop her from thinking she can say hello to everyone fell on def ears. I said to dh we shall allow one greeting like this per walk but that's it. The rest shall get a not today, sorry!

Definitely worth trying a different style of harness. A lot of dogs aren’t keen on the grappling a step in one necessitates. It’s the feeling of something going over the back though that a lot don’t like so it may not help.

I'd stop using the harness, at least for the medium period. I get that with the family commitments that you have on walks, it is comforting to have that sheer physical buttress to your control of the dog, but realistically the necessary level of control will come from training, practise and the growing maturity of the dog.

If you absolutely need the harness for the car, at least when the back space of the car is not usable, then I would minimise car trips for now and prioritise local walks.

Also worth keeping in mind that she might have some pain somewhere that makes the process of putting on the harness uncomfortable

My dog suddenly became afraid when I was putting his basic collar on for walks. I thought I must have accidentally hurt him with it, or frightened him with the loud click it makes on closure. But he has now been diagnosed with inflammatory arthritic, which affects multiple joints, and I now wonder whether the fearfulness was an early symptom of that.

My training response, btw, was to just turn away from him and be still/boring for a few moments. He realised that the walk wasn't going to happen unless he jet me collar him and that he was in control of letting things proceed.