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Original poster

Off the lead doesn’t necessarily mean out of control

145 replies

Screenager · 18/02/2026 09:35

I have 2 dogs who are very much under control when off the lead.

I live in the Lakes. I work in the mountains and spend a lot of time in the mountains with my dogs.

There are sheep around, dotted on the hillside. My dogs are off the lead and do not acknowledge these sheep. They don’t exist as far as my dogs are concerned.

It’s much safer for all to not have to contend with a a dog on a lead on steep rocky terrain. I have trained my dogs so we can enjoy the mountains together.

I spent 6hrs in the mountains yesterday with my dogs off the lead. It was snowy under foot and there were other people out walking.

My dogs did not go up to any one or any sheep. They wandered around, mooching near me at all times.

I got in to the valley at the end of the day and walked through a couple of fields. There were sheep in one of the fields. My dogs walked alongside me, not on a lead but under control. They were walking to heel.

Some guy with a dog on a lead came towards me and gave me a bollocking for having my dog off a lead in a field. Apparently I was breaking the law.

I’ve owned dogs for 20 odd years, always lived in the mountains and near farm land. I have always known that sheep worrying is an offence and dogs should be kept under control.

Does that mean on a lead? What are your thoughts?

OP posts:
Original poster
Screenager · 18/02/2026 13:08

Fizzink38 · 18/02/2026 11:34

Rubbish. I used to live and work on a farm, I've NEVER known a farmer who was happy for random dogs to be off the lead near their animals.

No one’s said they are near the animals. Just in the same field. I don’t purposely walk through the sheep with my dogs on a lead.

OP posts:
Original poster
Screenager · 18/02/2026 13:21

GreenCandleWax · 18/02/2026 11:40

When you say yours are under control, what do you mean? Would they obey a voice command from you if they took interest in sheep? Or are they trained to obey a whistle? Either way, how reliable would their obedience be if they wanted to do something different? This is not the same as your dogs fortunately not being interested in sheep etc, it's about whether you can you control them if they are wanting to do something different from what you want.🐕

Show quote history

It’s not a fortunate accident that they’re not interested in sheep. We put the fear in them when they even looked at one when they were pups (It’s the only time we’ve ever gone against the praise form of training) they don’t even acknowledge their existence.

From the day they were allowed out (about 8 wild I think) we purposely took them in to the field behind our house… with farmers permission (he’s a friend) on a lead. Then every time they even glanced at a sheep they were pinned by the scruff of their neck to the ground and yelled at. I don’t care if people think it’s cruel. We did it for about a month regularly, until they didn’t even acknowledge them.

It now means that we have stress free walks, safe in the knowledge that they will not worry sheep when off the lead.

It is the dogs that are just put on leads and not specifically trained in those that worry me, because if they break free or find a hole in the wall etc, then what do you do as an owner?

OP posts:
NoWordForFluffy · 18/02/2026 13:25

Then every time they even glanced at a sheep they were pinned by the scruff of their neck to the ground and yelled at. I don’t care if people think it’s cruel. We did it for about a month regularly, until they didn’t even acknowledge them.

WTAF have I just read?

slaintebab · 18/02/2026 13:30

My dog is brilliant off lead but I never take him off unless we’re in a designated dog park. It just isn’t worth it.

LabOwner95 · 18/02/2026 13:37

Screenager · 18/02/2026 13:21

It’s not a fortunate accident that they’re not interested in sheep. We put the fear in them when they even looked at one when they were pups (It’s the only time we’ve ever gone against the praise form of training) they don’t even acknowledge their existence.

From the day they were allowed out (about 8 wild I think) we purposely took them in to the field behind our house… with farmers permission (he’s a friend) on a lead. Then every time they even glanced at a sheep they were pinned by the scruff of their neck to the ground and yelled at. I don’t care if people think it’s cruel. We did it for about a month regularly, until they didn’t even acknowledge them.

It now means that we have stress free walks, safe in the knowledge that they will not worry sheep when off the lead.

It is the dogs that are just put on leads and not specifically trained in those that worry me, because if they break free or find a hole in the wall etc, then what do you do as an owner?

Show quote history

So your dogs aren't well trained around sheep, they're just scared to look at them? That's even worse!

sprigatito · 18/02/2026 13:37

Screenager · 18/02/2026 13:21

It’s not a fortunate accident that they’re not interested in sheep. We put the fear in them when they even looked at one when they were pups (It’s the only time we’ve ever gone against the praise form of training) they don’t even acknowledge their existence.

From the day they were allowed out (about 8 wild I think) we purposely took them in to the field behind our house… with farmers permission (he’s a friend) on a lead. Then every time they even glanced at a sheep they were pinned by the scruff of their neck to the ground and yelled at. I don’t care if people think it’s cruel. We did it for about a month regularly, until they didn’t even acknowledge them.

It now means that we have stress free walks, safe in the knowledge that they will not worry sheep when off the lead.

It is the dogs that are just put on leads and not specifically trained in those that worry me, because if they break free or find a hole in the wall etc, then what do you do as an owner?

Show quote history

Now we have even less reason to take your assurances at face value. You “trained” your dogs by brutalising them into submission, which makes them an unusually high risk for eventually snapping and doing something out of character.

It’s shocking to see a dog owner admit to using such abusive practices, despite knowing it does still go on. The human equivalent of what you did is called “blanket training” btw.

frothycoffee2 · 18/02/2026 13:49

Ah so not only are you arrogant you’re also an animal abuser. Nice, real nice.

CompleteMere · 18/02/2026 13:53

If they’re walking through a field glued to your heels and eyes on you anyway, what’s the difference with having a lead clipped on? Presumably they can walk nicely with a loose lead? It would provide reassurance for farmers, prevent misunderstandings about how closely under your control they are and provide an example for other dog owners whose dogs aren’t scared of them/sheep.

EdithStourton · 18/02/2026 13:53

Then every time they even glanced at a sheep they were pinned by the scruff of their neck to the ground and yelled at. I don’t care if people think it’s cruel. We did it for about a month regularly, until they didn’t even acknowledge them.
Fucking hell.

I'm not exactly Ms. Popular on this board because I will use aversion on my dogs, but there's no need to do that.

I trained my dogs with stooge sheep (owned by two separate gundog trainers who do a bit of smallholding) and a longline. The worst that happened during that process was a sharp tug on the line and a 'No!' or 'Ah-ah!' It does the trick - I know very prey-driven working gundogs who are allowed to jump in and out of paddocks of their owner's sheep, because they are completely trustworthy around them.

Climbingrosexx · 18/02/2026 13:54

Not something i would ever risk given a farmer would be well within his rights to shoot a dog if it appeared to be worrying his sheep

Electricsausages · 18/02/2026 13:55

Put the mutt on a lead wether they are good or not, that’s what leads are for

MindYourUsage · 18/02/2026 13:57

Totally your choice if your dogs are as well trained as you say.

I would never risk it though. Not with animals that have free will and instincts, no matter how well trained. Anyway if they are walking right by your side what difference does it make to pop a lead on and just leave it slack?

One day they could break their training with just a particular trigger and your dog could be shot. I just wouldnt put my dog in that situation with livestock.

ShowmetheMapletree · 18/02/2026 13:59

The thing that would worry me is the unpredictability of it. Dogs can get spooked or change suddenly. YABU.

redboxer321 · 18/02/2026 14:04

Screenager · 18/02/2026 13:21

It’s not a fortunate accident that they’re not interested in sheep. We put the fear in them when they even looked at one when they were pups (It’s the only time we’ve ever gone against the praise form of training) they don’t even acknowledge their existence.

From the day they were allowed out (about 8 wild I think) we purposely took them in to the field behind our house… with farmers permission (he’s a friend) on a lead. Then every time they even glanced at a sheep they were pinned by the scruff of their neck to the ground and yelled at. I don’t care if people think it’s cruel. We did it for about a month regularly, until they didn’t even acknowledge them.

It now means that we have stress free walks, safe in the knowledge that they will not worry sheep when off the lead.

It is the dogs that are just put on leads and not specifically trained in those that worry me, because if they break free or find a hole in the wall etc, then what do you do as an owner?

Show quote history

I think - hope - that this is another rage bait thread. No end of them these days.

MindYourUsage · 18/02/2026 14:07

OP I'm apalled at what I read. You repeatedly and deliberately set your puppies up in a situation to fail and then you pinned them to the ground by their necks and shouted in their faces?

And you call this good dog training?

Fucking hell. I'm not a positive only training nutter and will used balanced methods on my dog but what you did to your puppies is fucking awful. Your poor dogs.

I'm not engaging further in this thread. You're an animal abuser.

Original poster
Screenager · 18/02/2026 14:16

EdithStourton · 18/02/2026 11:46

I have lived rurally for most of my life. I have also owned, lived with or walked other people's dogs for most of my life. I used to look after a small flock of sheep, and one was killed by a dog. I've also seen the photos on a farmer's phone following a dog attack that left a number of sheep dead and others injured. I have a strong stomach, but I couldn't look at them all.

On open moorland, I would let my dogs off-lead so long as sheep were not in within 100-200m. Both of my dogs have been trained around sheep, and generally ignore them completely - unless I'm saying hello and feeding grass through the fence to a couple of pet sheep we sometimes pass on walks (and before anyone has a go, I have the okay from the owner to do so). Then they might come over for a quick sniff.

But even with my own dogs, I would put them on a lead in a field of sheep. Not because I think they will chase. But because:
I have respect for the farmer, who doesn't need the stress of looking out of the tractor cab while spraying in the field next door, and seeing off-lead dogs around the stock;
Sometimes even the best-trained dogs might go off-piste - they might decide to hoon around playing, for example, and even a few seconds of that could set a flock off running
Sheep are at a higher density on fenced lowland pasture, so it's harder to give them a wide berth. My dogs are not going to start chasing, but the sheep don't know that.

The only exception to this would be if I had the farmer's permission, for the purposes of stock training my dogs, or refreshing it if I felt it might be useful.

If you walk in the countryside, and even if you never plan to let your dogs off-lead where there are sheep, PLEASE stock-train them. Leads break and get yanked out of hands. Sheep are absolute escape artists, and also very skilled at concealing themselves in shade or in hollows or behind patches of bracken and brambles, so you can scan a field and think, 'Great, no sheep', and let Fido off... This happened to someone I know slightly, and her dogs spent 20 minutes running riot in a field of sheep.

@BlibBlabBlob
I actually think it should be illegal to have dogs in a field with livestock at all, especially at this time of year. That'd be a clear rule, and keep all animals safe.
I don't see how that would work on farms criss-crossed by footpaths. It would mean fencing off footpaths, which would chop up fields into smaller segments and would be very costly, or redirecting footpaths, which isn't always feasible. Also sometimes livestock is only on a field every few years - sheep on stubble turnips, for example.

Just... control your dogs.

This!… honestly I think I mostly come across townies on holiday who’s dogs rarely come across sheep. So are not trained to not react to them… whether on the lead or not

OP posts:
CurlewKate · 18/02/2026 14:18

It’s perfectly fine. Until it isn’t.

Original poster
Screenager · 18/02/2026 14:19

Sausagescanfly · 18/02/2026 12:10

Presumably it can't be the law that all dogs are on leads in fields with livestock as sheep farmers have to be able to let their sheepdogs off the lead to be able to work.

Why not just keep your dogs on leads in sheep fields out of respect for the farmer, if other arguments don't float your boat?

I don't live in an area like yours, but even I know that sheep farming is a tough life and is part of what keeps the Lake District's landscape, heritage and economy going. Why risk pissing off the farmers?

Tourism is what keeps the Lakes industry going. Farming has ruined the natural landscape… we are supposed to be deciduous biome, not a grassland

OP posts:
Original poster
Screenager · 18/02/2026 14:22

redboxer321 · 18/02/2026 12:21

Well that's a minute or two of time I'll never get back.
Thought it might be an interesting debate but it's descended into a pile on and a boasting competition which is a shame.

I wouldn't have faith in my dog (especially not my current one) or my training abilities to do as OP does. Also, pp makes a good point essentially saying you should set an example but OP is right to say an off-lead dog isn't necessarily out of control just as much as an on-lead dog isn't necessarily in control.
I saw a woman the other day floored by an off-lead dog but the dog was running up to her on-lead dog who was going bananas. People innit?

I was kind of hoping that too. I honestly expect more people to have an open mind about it all. But no… I threw myself in to the pit. I should have known better

OP posts:
Original poster
Screenager · 18/02/2026 14:24

NoWordForFluffy · 18/02/2026 13:25

Then every time they even glanced at a sheep they were pinned by the scruff of their neck to the ground and yelled at. I don’t care if people think it’s cruel. We did it for about a month regularly, until they didn’t even acknowledge them.

WTAF have I just read?

What’s the issue?

OP posts:
Original poster
Screenager · 18/02/2026 14:25

LabOwner95 · 18/02/2026 13:37

So your dogs aren't well trained around sheep, they're just scared to look at them? That's even worse!

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Well it’s been 4yrs since we did it. So I’d say they were well trained… who cares if it was through fear? They’re not fearful of me. Just sheep. Which is the better way round imo

OP posts:
Original poster
Screenager · 18/02/2026 14:26

frothycoffee2 · 18/02/2026 13:49

Ah so not only are you arrogant you’re also an animal abuser. Nice, real nice.

😆

OP posts:
Sausagescanfly · 18/02/2026 14:27

Screenager · 18/02/2026 14:19

Tourism is what keeps the Lakes industry going. Farming has ruined the natural landscape… we are supposed to be deciduous biome, not a grassland

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I don't think you'd have the same tourism in a deciduous biome.

loislovesstewie · 18/02/2026 14:27

Screenager · 18/02/2026 14:19

Tourism is what keeps the Lakes industry going. Farming has ruined the natural landscape… we are supposed to be deciduous biome, not a grassland

Show quote history

Then we would all starve wouldn't we? Most of the British Isles was covered in trees in pre history. Areas which are now treeless were forests. Humans shaped our landscape, we can't go back to prehistory , we would starve.

TheHungryHungryLandsharks · 18/02/2026 14:35

Screenager · 18/02/2026 14:25

Well it’s been 4yrs since we did it. So I’d say they were well trained… who cares if it was through fear? They’re not fearful of me. Just sheep. Which is the better way round imo

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I came back as I have nothing better to do today and wondered if you had outed yourself yet, and you have! Your attitude and arrogance towards dog ownership was clear in your first few posts so I am unsurprised to see that you abuse your pets. Some of us manage to train our dogs without terrorising them.