Off the lead doesn’t necessarily mean out of control

[Screenager]

I have 2 dogs who are very much under control when off the lead.

I live in the Lakes. I work in the mountains and spend a lot of time in the mountains with my dogs.

There are sheep around, dotted on the hillside. My dogs are off the lead and do not acknowledge these sheep. They don’t exist as far as my dogs are concerned.

It’s much safer for all to not have to contend with a a dog on a lead on steep rocky terrain. I have trained my dogs so we can enjoy the mountains together.

I spent 6hrs in the mountains yesterday with my dogs off the lead. It was snowy under foot and there were other people out walking.

My dogs did not go up to any one or any sheep. They wandered around, mooching near me at all times.

I got in to the valley at the end of the day and walked through a couple of fields. There were sheep in one of the fields. My dogs walked alongside me, not on a lead but under control. They were walking to heel.

Some guy with a dog on a lead came towards me and gave me a bollocking for having my dog off a lead in a field. Apparently I was breaking the law.

I’ve owned dogs for 20 odd years, always lived in the mountains and near farm land. I have always known that sheep worrying is an offence and dogs should be kept under control.

Does that mean on a lead? What are your thoughts?

Dogs should be on a lead as they are unpredictable.

Bit arrogant to say your dogs are better trained than half the people on here

I do understand your point but another persons dogs may not be so well trained and the owner oblivious, even on the lead if they are aggressive to your dogs it may impact the sheep. It’s also about respect, if your on a farmers land, around their livestock then you should respect it’s their livelihood and respect the rules.

Depends if you're happy for your dog to be shot if it decided today's the day its going to chase livestock.

I agree that some off lead dogs are under control, but in a field with livestock they should be on a lead. In the Lakes there are signs to that effect everywhere.

I actually think it should be illegal to have dogs in a field with livestock at all, especially at this time of year. That'd be a clear rule, and keep all animals safe.

My current dog is quite new to us and I absolutely wouldn't let her off the lead yet. We're still at the stage of using a long line, only letting it drop in livestock-free areas with no other dogs or people around and with a second human for her to run directly between (recall practice).

But I wouldn't take her anywhere near livestock at this point, either. Even on a short lead, if she were to get a bit excited she'd still frighten sheep. Probably more than a calm dog walking off lead, to heel.

Dog owners in general need to be much, much more responsible. Especially in the countryside.

It is defined. There are numerous ways of having a dog entirely under your control, the law can’t define every single one of them. If you need words to be written to define every single eventuality, you probably shouldn’t be out in public alone.

75 here,had dogs since I was 12 mainly border collies, usually 2 once 3 had a phalane as well..So I have had dogs for over 60 years. Used to walk them on ashdown forest,sheep and cattle were loose then, and leads weren't mandatory
The border collie and phalene ignored the animals, until once the phalene decided to go with a horse and rider, crossed the main A22, and it took several hours in February to find the little devil, soaking wet and cowering under a bush. My older BC had never seen a horse till she was 1, didn't like it..my youngest has high prey drive. We live opposite the South Downs now, there are often sheep grazing outside the electric fencing and pastures, signs up,"dogs must be on a lead". We actually met a woman who had taken her dog into the pasture inside the electric fencing, no lead, she said her dog was fine.. We don't even take the dogs up the Downs when the animals are loose,we go to the beach,forest or woods. It's no fun for them being on a lead,or is frankly. A couple of years ago before the electric fencing was erected,a cow with calf,chased the bloke behind us,he just managed to get away.. again,we had the sense to give a very wide birth. Sheep can be quite aggressive as well.

One thing though is the mere presence of your dogs may upset the sheep. And the dogs must be at your side at all times. Personally I wouldn’t risk it no matter how well controlled I think my dogs are. However I would not be shouting at someone about it, which in itself may upset the dogs and the sheep!

Agree wilful ignorance or entitlement is no excuse.

Dogs are animals and won’t have perfect control every time.

In the same way I wouldn’t leave my dog alone with a baby for an hour, I also wouldn’t have my dog no matter how good the recall in a field of sheep. It’s just selfish.

Can yours flying down at 50 meters? Because I'm yet to meet another poster who's dogs can on mumsnet. Which is my point. Mine are excellently trained, but I still wouldn't risk it. Which makes me less arrogant than you.

Tbh, I'm not going to engage anymore - you clearly think your Gods gift to dog ownership, and I hope your dogs don't suffer as a result.

Well I’d rather my dog be alive than me win an argument with a farmer that he was wrong to shoot and kill my dog, but that’s just me.

The thing is, even if you’re technically in the right, if your dogs get shot then you’re the one who’s going to have to live with that on your conscience - no-one else. Seems like a very stupid risk to take.

I'm sure your dogs are very well trained. At the end of the day, all animals have an element of unpredictability. I've had a dog suddenly start biting out completely of character because he had an issue with his teeth which I wasn't aware about until he bit me.

I personally wouldn't take the risk around livestock as the 0.001% chance something could go wrong and my dog get shot isn't worth it to me.

I live in a very rural area and never walk with my dogs off lead, anywhere near livestock.

There are by my side ay all times.

What a sad existence for a dog to never be off a lead.

No. I think YOU think you’re god’s gift.

I’m merely opening up a discussion about why it’s not a legal requirement to use a lead

Fair point.

Her dog would never be off a lead near livestock, there’s a very key difference. That’s not sad.

I would just follow dog-walking etiquette - if you see a dog on a lead you put yours on a lead. Just because you know you are safe, doesn't mean others are on the same page.

I think your focus on the technicality and the 'rules' makes you sound arrogant and immature. If you have so much experience in the countryside you should know and respect that it's not as simple, or as black and white as that. There's common sense, critical thinking and nuance, as there is in all life.
It's like giving way when you technically don't have to, to make life easier or safer for someone else.
We go to a restaurant with our children where the 'rule' is that children are well behaved. My daughter is very well behaved, but I don't let her sit up at the bar chatting or allow her to walk to the toilets and back by herself. I'm 100% sure she would be perfect, but it sets a bad example for others and although I know she's fine, the restaurant owners don't know that she won't start running into waitresses etc. I'd rather just be responsible than insist she can do x,y or z because 'the rules' don't say she can't. Not an exact comparisons but you get the idea.
There are so many examples like that in real life .
Put your dog on a lead in a field.

How does your dog chase a ball without ever leaving your side?

Another option @Screenager. There is an impeccably trained dog I see around Tottenham, and I mean impeccable. The dog has a lead on, but carries his own lead in his mouth while walking to heel, eyes 100% on his owner, even with large crowds walking towards the stadium.

My dog has good recall but I would never ever, under any circumstances have her off lead anywhere near sheep or other livestock. We sometimes walk down a country track with a field on each side. If the fields are empty she gets off lead, if there are any livestock in either field she is on her lead, even though the fields are quite well protected with bushes. She can't even see the field or anything in it but no matter ...I can see and it only takes one unguarded moment.
Someone we know lost a dog like that. Off lead, not in a field, but walking parallel to it. He had his old dog and an eight month old spaniel with him. A countryman who you would think would know better. We didn't know him well but often stopped for a chat when dog walking and he would say that the old dog was teaching the new dog how to behave. Possibly in the house ..but surely not where roads/livestock/children or other areas of possible danger occur?
Anyway he was strolling along with old dog at heel as usual when the young spaniel took off for the field chasing ewes. He could not recall the over excited youngster and the farmer, legally ( and it has to be said rightly) shot it.
Thank god we were not there to see it and the spaniel was a beautiful animal. Traumatising for all concerned for the sake of attaching a lead. They are dogs, with all the natural instincts dogs have.As owners it's our responsibility make sure they are safe and not a nuisance to others.