Is this genuinely a right way to train a dog?

[sarral]

just need to start off saying... I've never had any experience with dogs at all, ever!

so after years of DH wanting a dog(he grew up with dogs) and me being not being massively keen (ie: kids, life admin, home responsibilities, work ect ect to deal with, just always thought a dog would be added pressure) I finally agreed a few years after Dc's had grown up and left home.

so we've had our little cockerpoo for 2 and half years now and tbh I absolutely love him to absolute bits, but it's not the picnic DH convinced me it would be 🤦

He can't be left alone, not even for 5 mins, follows us (me mainly) EVERYWHERE I can't even nip the loo without him crying outside bathroom door. Walks are a nightmare, he's not too bad with DH but when I go, which isn't often now because I just can't deal with his behaviour (the picture of us getting out more, leisurely walking him, having lots of exercise and enjoying leisure time with him are non existent) he goes mad if anyone comes near me, human or other dogs, barks his head off, even if someone just says "hello" to me he kicks off. So we decided to get a trainer in. Now this trainer I found local to us has 5 star reviews, with over 200+ reviews. So went with her as seemed to be the best reviewed trainer for Miles.

So had her out a few times now and it's just not sitting right with me what we've been told to do but as I've never had a dog I'm not sure if I'm being naive or just totally un-informed.
We've been taught to spray water at any barking,moaning, anytime someone knocks at door or visits (this is a massive trigger for him) on walks we've been told and taught how to use a training lead (from my limited knowledge I think this might be called a choke lead??? I'm not 100% sure??)

it just doesn't all sit right me, he's scared of the water spray, It works but it stops working when we stop using it, which is often cos I just don't like making him scared, the training lead worked for DH, but not me, but then I'm too afraid to pull it incase it chokes him😭😭 DH wants to get trainer out again as we literally have no life in we can't leave him or go anywhere without him, I'm reluctant as I'm not sure this is best way to train him but as Ive said I've no experience so don't know if this is the way we should be training. Trainer is fully qualified for 10+ years so not sure if it's just me or not? Any advice would be appreciated.
thank you.

Honestly OP...
I'm at odds with the majority on this board as I will (and do) use a certain amount of aversion when training my dogs (and use slip leads all the time), but this is not a trainer I would feel happy with.

I'd look elsewhere. Find someone who does understand SA, for starters.

Are they a registered behaviourist, or do they just call themselves one? It's a minefield, and quite a lucrative one at that!

Have you looked at The Door is a Bore for separation anxiety? It's by Julie Naismith and there's an online program and stuff on Facebook. We used it with ChenDog and it really worked - I can now leave him for a maximum of 3.5-4 hours and he's fine, bit at the beginning I couldn't even walk out of the front door. It's taken a while to get to that stage though, and you do have to take it very slowly.

A slip lead is only a slip lead on a dog that doesn't pull. If the dog pulls, it's a choke lead. Technically, you can get slips that have a stopper so that it doesn't slip beyond a certain point, but in reality, a dog will suffer if it pulls on a slip lead. The theory behind them is that a few unpleasant experiences will teach the dog that pulling hurts and they won't. Unfortunately, stressed dogs don't think their behaviours through and act on instinct.

Your dog seems to me to have separation anxiety. It’s common in cockapoos from my experience.

Go right back to basics and do reward training - get a high value treat and cut down normal food appropriately. I use cheap chicken legs and cook them up in the slow cooker in bulk.

start with calling the dog around the house.

get a Kong and fill it with treats and freeze it.

practice leaving the dog and coming straight back then slowly increase the time.

is the wee dog crate trained?

I do “eyes on me” (from Jurassic park 🤣🤣🤣) for my dog - so he knows when he sees a dog or a human he does a sit and eyes on me until I say “release”.

Is the cocker part working or show?
If working, he might need an outlet for the drives he was bred to have. He will want to hunt (which can just be for tennis balls in long grass) and probably also retrieve.

I have a working line dog (of a different breed) and she becomes horrible (rude to dogs outside the home, a bit of a thug to our other dog) if she doesn't get a regular, structured outlet. A normal walk just doesn't do it for her, so twice a week I'm out there hunting her on gamey ground or throwing dummies over ditches.

I can’t give you specifics for your dog, that would be unethical given I’ve not met him

However, cockapoos are notoriously ‘busy’ working type dogs, known to be a bit neurotic in general and if left to their own devices will go what I call ‘self employed’ and find shadow chasing, resource guarding, territorial barking or the like to keep them mentally on the go to fill a void
Thus the scent work suggested above, or another sport/training activity combined with some management techniques and a home life set up that makes the dog feel confident is almost always my starting point

so Thank you so much to everyone who has taken time to read and reply, I'm very grateful🙏
so we were told it's not seperation anxiety as he doesn't wee/poo, chew anything or froth at mouth ect when being left (albeit we've never left him more than 20 mins or so and I can count on one hand the amount of times he's been left alone in 2&half years) 🤦 we've tried "trainers" advice, have left him with a licky mat,licky puzzles, I can't leave him with anything solid ie chews suggested by trainer as I've read they can on very small occasions cause choking with a stressed dog, so only ever try with licky stuff. I've been told this is absolutely not seperation anxiety for reasons above but am now starting to think it is actually 100% seperation anxiety which is changing my thoughts on what he might need,albeit still not sure how to preceed yet.

You need to speak to an accredited behaviourist who is registered with a proper organisation to get to the root cause of your dogs' anxiety. Your vet should be able to recommend someone and it should be covered by insurance too.

just had a look back at their credentials Bsc(hons) in animal welfare and behaviour 15 years+🤷🤷🤷

sorry I don't know what you mean by part working or show??? he's just a very loved family pet

Everyone trains dogs differently (and I am by no means saying that your trainer is doing the right thing), but I do think that you and your DP need to find mutual methods that you agree on. If one of you trains the dog one way, and the other does it differently, then the poor dog will be very confused and take advantage of the 'weakling' one out of you both.

I was very strict on mine when they were puppies. I've never used a slip lead (childhood rehomed dog had one, but she still took you skiing down the street, regardless if it risked strangulation). Two did very well on a very short lead and with a stick in front of them as a visual reminder that they were to walk by my side, not in front. You stop them every time they go in front of it. We got some funny looks and questioned out in public, but it worked for them, and they're very well-behaved in that respect (e.g. stopping sitting at kerbsides and so on unless it is raining or snowing, because wet bottoms are not fun). The other dog is much more pully, but has come on leaps and bounds with a harness (and the stick in front). Might that be an option for you in terms of his walking?

Also, if you're anxious about taking your dog out, the dog will feed off your anxiety. Some say that it travels down the lead! I have no advice on this bit, unfortunately, but know that anxiety is hard to deal with at the best of times. Throw in some judgemental comments and you'll realise that not everyone knows best when it comes to your dog. If you can afford it, and live in a fairly suburban area, do you know of any popular dog walkers in your local area? They might be able to fit your dog in and may recommend something in terms of training.

You can get anti-barking devices. I have one and it's done wonders for my youngest, who is of a barky working breed, in the house. Any dog noise triggers it and it makes a bleeping noise which dogs don't like. It didn't take long for mine to pipe down, and she doesn't need it anymore.

Perhaps try leaving him for little periods of time, but always give him a treat and a fuss when you come in? I appreciate that they can be destructive (been there, done that!), but perhaps shut him in one room (or a pen or a crate, which some people recommend) for damage limitation.

He sounds very protective of you if he won't let people near you. I don't have any advice on that (mine are happy to socialise, but never go far from me), but perhaps someone else will be able to suggest something!

It will be harder because your dog is older now, and has learnt which behaviours he can get away with, but do persist, OP. It will make all of your lives much more manageable! Pob lwc!

diolch yn fawr!
I do agree that I think he is picking up on my anxiety 😭 I'm trying not to be anxious but struggling to deal with other dog walkets/people who are around commenting or giving disgusting looks at out dog going off on one full blast 🤦
DH and I are trying hard to be on same level with training🤞🤞
I didn't mention previously and don't want to drip feed but the trainer also recommended that collar, we got it and altho I was very uncomfortable with it, it did work for about 8 weeks then it just became redundant in he literally didn't care less about it in any way shape or form, it would just bleep off the scale and he'd bark like it didn't even exist 🤦 we even got a hand held "bleeping" thing that worked for about 2 weeks but he just got used to them and couldn't care less🤦only thing that actually works is the water but I just can't bring myself to use it anymore.
will have a look into dog walkers tho, thank you something else to give thought to.

Perhaps an 'anxious dog' coat/label might assist with people giving you a wider berth. I found wandering around with the stick in front of my dogs also kept people at bay, which was quite handy (if unintended!).Other people are very judgemental about other people's dogs, ranging from their breed(s) to their behaviour. Just remember that what worked for their dog might not work for yours, and keep that in mind. Is there anywhere quiet nearby (obviously, keep an eye out for sheep being brought back to their home farms for scanning at this time of year) where you could walk him, or at early times? That way, less people and less dogs will mean less anxiety for both of you!

I wasn't a fan of the anti-bark collar either, and it took a couple of different anti-barking devices (which sit on the worktop; I found a Queen Mew one to work) to find one that worked for mine. Unfortunately, it doesn't work for the neighbour's dogs, though!

A family member (not in Wales, unfortunately!) uses a dog walker who is very well-regarded, hence that suggestion. Erm... are you on any dog-related or breed-specific Facebook (or equivalent) groups? Sometimes they are handy for advice, and there are funny posts to cheer you up and commiserate with sometimes.

If it makes you feel any better, I've known other people's dogs to rush into a bandstand full of singing schoolchildren and another elderly one that cocked his leg and urinated into a family's picnic basket, so they all have their interesting and embarrassing quirks!

no not crate trained, tried for about 7. months but just kept weeing/pooing /crying/barking in crate so we gave up which I'm thinking was wrong thing to do but didn't know how to proceed, just gave into him and let him have his own way🤦🤦

I know an excellent dog trainer around you. I can pm.

🤣🤣
yes on several dog groups, so many seem to have same unresolved issues with this breed 🤦🤦
have actually just ordered nordic walking poles for our walks which might come in handy as "sticks" 🤣 we've just last week found a wooded/forest area that does seem to be quite quiet🤞🤞 going to try see if we can get there for most of our walks in future, doesn't solve our problem but might help my MH walking him in a calmer environment 🤞🤞

please 🙏thank you.

Agree. And remember how it used to be considered right to batter kids in schools. Legal up to the late nineties in private schools and mid eighties in state ones, so any of us who are Millennials or Gen X, this could have been legal or normal, but just because something is legal (like what this person is doing) doesn't make it right. Digs, like kids, rely on us and shouldn't be mistreated.
Find a positive trainer who treats dogs with care and respect.

can you post publicly at at all just keeps saying "void" when I click on your message

I think you’ve had some great advice and ultimately it’s all about reward based training and building a relationship with your dog.
On another note, cockerpoos are notorious for being clingy, I wish people would think outside the latest trend.
i am glad you questioned this trainer, he is way off the mark and you can google any reputable and qualified dog trainer and you’ll see how by how much. His suggestions will make your problems so much worse and it’s cruel.

I totally agree, I'm from the generation where I got "battered" for anything and everything and it was acceptable, think that's why I probably had a gut instinct that this isn't the correct way to train a dog, even tho I have had to question myself, still just didn't sit right with me at all😭

You've got some professionals on here so I hesitate to add the bits of knowledge I got when I was training my Border Collie (1997, but she was the most beautifully behaved girl after training, could take her anywhere). This was a London Council Dog Training School, excellent training.

Walking on a lead, start your walk as normal but the minute dog starts to pull turn and walk in the opposite direction - we did this in the grounds of a scout hut so it didn't look as potty as it would in the street. Back and forth, back and forth, my dog caught on fairly quickly that she wouldn't see much of the street when pulling .... Dog got the same amount of steps in, as it were, but just didn't go much of a distance. Took a while but it worked with mine. Alas, didn't work on my second dog who wasn't perhaps as bright ...

Smelly treats, bag of frankfurthers cut up small; have the bag to hand when you see another dog so before it registers with your dog be reaching for the bag for the treat. I'd suggest not using the usual treats from home, biscuits or dry stuff. Something a bit special just for walks.

If you are giving the licky or Kong bits only when you leave they are probably adding to the anxiety your dog has when you leave. Offer them when you are having a quiet night home, no moving around just snuggles on the sofa.

You are your dogs favourite person and they want you 100% all day long. It's a compliment (although v annoying, I know). Just remember that and it might lessen the frustration you feel.

thank you 😍
have tried the opposite direction thing till we are blue in face, it just doesn't seem to work with him unfortunately
have also tried treat training on walks at home ect... he does have the licky mat and treats at home, his Saturday night at home settling down is a freshly made puppacino and licky mat (other nights are available 🤣) he's actually a bit spoilt and is very fussy and peculiar with treats,he would look at us like crap if we tried to feed him frankfurters 🤣🤣his sister on the other hand (my families dog) would think all her Christmases came at once if given a frankfurter🤣

Not had chance to read all comments but this is a lovely Facebook group for positive dog training. www.facebook.com/share/g/184WU8hwNv/?mibextid=wwXIfr. You have to read the mandatory guides before asking for advice and will only get replies from the expert volunteers. But there's lots of posts where you can read the guidance.

thank you 🙏