The Castration Debate

[stillchasingdereksheppard]

Hi All,

Just wondering what others opinions are on the current castration debate there seems to be with vets? Our vet is adamant that they will only castrate our dog if there is a medical reason and not simply as standard anymore. I am uncomfortable with this and had always planned to have him castrated as he is not a working dog and will not be breeding him and so it seems like the responsible thing to do.

Background

I have a 1 year old male dog that we rescued 6 months ago who was castrated before we adopted him. At the time of adoption we said we would consider a second dog if the right fit came along at the right time as felt that our dog would like the company.
We were contacted by the rescue a couple of months ago to say they had taken in a mother and pups rescued from a fire but mum was attacking pups so they needed to be separated. Estimated to be 8-10 weeks old. We were not sure about it all but agreed to foster as they needed homes quickly. Obviously we fell in love and adopted him.
Puppy is now 4.5 months old. Finished all his vaccinations etc and is fit & healthy. When we last took him into vets for his weight and flea/worming treatments I discussed with them about when they recommend castration. He is a small Jack Russel ISH cross - vet reckons he will be around 8kg fully grown.

Vet is adamant that the new recommendation is that they are not castrated unless there is a medical need and thus chemical castration should be trialed first. I spoke to them regarding the fact the other male dog in the house is castrated and therefore might cause issues if this one remains in tact but they were very 'lets cross that bridge if we come to it'

I did push back that I really wanted him to be castrated. Do not want to have to worry about him being off lead and finding an in season female or any accidental breeding. That our dog walker has a policy that all males on group walks to be castrated by 1 year and we rely on that service etc. Also said we had a contract with the rescue saying we would castrate by 1 year. Vet just sort of shrugged it all off saying well they can't actually make you do it, obviously I said maybe not but I feel its best! Also pointed out that both our pups are rescues of which there are 1000s stuck in kennels so surely castration is part of that solution.

Anyway the vet eventually said we can discuss again in a few months but have a think about it we don't recommend it.

Looked on BVA and actually it says it's unclear and is waiting for more studies.

What is everyone else thinking about this shift? What are other people with puppies doing? It seems from talking to other local owners that all the vets in this area are saying similar things.

I feel like ultimately if I push the vet they will do it however I thought I would see what other options are so I had some consideration first.

Id find a new vet.

Get a second opinion.

Whatever this particular vet says, male dogs are still routinely neutered.

Vasectomy.

Recommend is wait till they are 2 so they are fully grown which we did our vet was its up to us but they were happy to castrate, we have a neighbour with unneutured bitches. Which drove m6 dog insane every time they go into season or wherever they were on a cycle. We have no regrets and my dog is just the same if not a bit calmer than before.

Me too.
My mum lost a dog to testosterone sensitive tumours in the late 80's. Heartbreaking.
As a result we have always had our male dogs castrated .

Yes this. Our vets had differing opinions or research they favoured but as a practice they were fine to castrate

A family dog had so many issues due to not being castrated. I'd get another vet but I'd also wait until your puppy is fully grown.

I didn't have mine done. Only my females get keyhole spayed. In some ways I was happy not to as the pros appeared to outweigh the cons but in other ways I wish I had. The willy dribble marks everywhere for one.

Wow! What about the millions of starving, unwanted and dumped dogs out there! Some cultures really dislike dogs. Heartbreaking. Take him to another vet?

I’ve always had male dogs never had 1 castrated never had a problem. Where I live now spaying bitches doesn’t appear to be the norm so regularly meet in season bitches current male dog seems oblivious this has been my experience with all my previous male dogs.
I recently got a 10 month old bitch she’s not had a season so I had my dog chemically castrated he’s definitely quieter lost a bit of his charisma. I will not chemically castrated again unless she hasn’t come into season before it wears off. She will be spayed once she’s had her first season. I talked to my vet and he said the jury was out on routine male castration and should be down to the individual dog/circumstances. My dog is very much avoids confrontation and is very good at reading dog body language. He always recommends spaying bitches.

There are two vets in this village and having spoken to other owners the other practice is saying the same. We can absolutely go further afield and we will if need be but I just wanted to see what other people thought in case I had some outdated view point and needed to look at further research or whatever.

I absolutely agree that there is a serious issue with dog (& lots of other animals) abandonment and that it's due to irresponsible people allowing pets to breed to make some quick cash. Both of ours are rescues and honestly seeing just how many dogs are left waiting for homes is heartbreaking.

I'm glad people seem to feel the same way on the whole. I had planned to get him done somewhere between 9 months - a year as I know they like them to be fully grown. Given that he is such a small dog he is very likely to be done growing by this time if not sooner.

He's currently 5kg and vet is saying adult weight estimate is around 7-8kg so he's not far off weight wise now! I get that bones etc take longer to fully form but he isnt going to need the same time span as a great Dane!

I feel if I push the vets they will do it. They didn't actually say no just seemed anti it. I just wanted to gather other opinions before I pushed any further so I know id be making an informed decision ( and yes I'm also looking at the studies and BVA advice etc as well as asking on here).

I would wait til he’s completely fully grown anyway - it’s quite early to be thinking about it now.

I prefer my dogs neutered but I wait til 2 years old (small dogs) and go with chemical castration initially though I haven’t had a dog with confidence issues. I feel like a neutered dog is less of a target for other entire males.

There seem to be more entire males around these days - I think this is due to anthropomorphising “I couldn’t look him in the eye if I did that to him” type comments.

You can get another opinion anyway or move vets but I wouldn’t do it too young.

All four of mine, over four decades, have been done. Dog number one had to get done as an emergency in middle age as he had an enlarged prostate and was peeing blood. I swithered with number four and discussed chemical castration but eventually came down on the side of doing it.

I would be looking at waiting till he's physically and mentally mature and changing my vet.

That's so strange, every dog our family has ever had has been neutered. I always judge people that don't tbh.

I don’t anthropomorphise my dogs far from it but I do subscribe to the ethos if it ain’t broke don’t fix it.
Im 60 have been round animals all my life I have no problems castrating horses cows sheep (all can have behavioural problems if not castrated or if not done significantly impacts on their quality of life) cats and wouldn’t hesitate to castrate a dog if it was necessary. I can categorically say my dogs have never fathered any puppies.

I have this dilemma, the rescue is adamant it should be done, the behaviourist says no way - this is a rescue collie, he's 3 now, and a lovely friendly lad, reads dogs well, loves to meet, greet and play but is on his collie nerves hair trigger for strange stuff/fireworks/anything that bangs - he'll run.

Didn’t have ours done, 8 now, just never bothered ,but my god he’s a nightmare several times a year presumably when females are in season, stops eating, won’t settle just a pain, I’d definitely consider it and have discussed it with our vet ,whose never mentioned anything about no longer castrating unless theirs a medical reason

We've had 4 males, all giants, none castrated because it just never felt necessary. I don't think we ever thought about discussing it with the vet. We never had any issues health or temperament wise. None of them were oversexed, and they never wandered.

Given that he is still so young, and immature, I would be happy to wait & see.

My male lab was 3 before he was neutered, as he was not overly confident. But by 3 he was a target for neutered males , and a risk to bitches in season. We did do a chemical trial first.

When the time is right, or if you find you have issues with your other male, talk to the vet again. If they are still reluctant , look for another practice. It’s very much case by case with my vet.

I think they also say if a dog has behaviour issues castration might make them worse, .I am in contact with my dogs litter owners all males and most of them are castrated.

Just to be clear I wasn't thinking about getting it done now. I was always going to wait until 9-12 months.

There is a growing body of evidence that neutering, especially so young, increases risks of some cancers, joint issues, cruciate tears, frailty in old age and aggression and other behavioural problems.

But vets should be considering each case individually. If you need to use daycare or a walker and understand the risks that decision should be yours

Won't the rescue help if you can't get a vet to do it?

Sounds like a good vet to me. Never say never but he needs to be at least double the age you're thinking of getting him done. And chemical first, I mean, why wouldn't you?

All 4 of my rescues have been done. One prior to adoption, the others once in our possession.

The rescue was insistent, and had wanted to have the first one done before releasing to us, but we persuaded them to let us take him home first as he was still a 9m puppy and alone at the rescue as the other dogs weren't suitable kennel mates. He was 10 months when castrated.

The female we managed to delay until after her first season.

The third was already castrated when we adopted at 18m.

The fourth is a dachshund mix, so hormones especially important to protect the spine with the risk of IVDD. The male vet was like yours in wanting to keep intact and dismissive of our contract with the rescue. However, once 20m, we went ahead with it and his partner, also his wife, performed the surgery. (This was earlier this year.)