The Castration Debate

[stillchasingdereksheppard]

Hi All,

Just wondering what others opinions are on the current castration debate there seems to be with vets? Our vet is adamant that they will only castrate our dog if there is a medical reason and not simply as standard anymore. I am uncomfortable with this and had always planned to have him castrated as he is not a working dog and will not be breeding him and so it seems like the responsible thing to do.

Background

I have a 1 year old male dog that we rescued 6 months ago who was castrated before we adopted him. At the time of adoption we said we would consider a second dog if the right fit came along at the right time as felt that our dog would like the company.
We were contacted by the rescue a couple of months ago to say they had taken in a mother and pups rescued from a fire but mum was attacking pups so they needed to be separated. Estimated to be 8-10 weeks old. We were not sure about it all but agreed to foster as they needed homes quickly. Obviously we fell in love and adopted him.
Puppy is now 4.5 months old. Finished all his vaccinations etc and is fit & healthy. When we last took him into vets for his weight and flea/worming treatments I discussed with them about when they recommend castration. He is a small Jack Russel ISH cross - vet reckons he will be around 8kg fully grown.

Vet is adamant that the new recommendation is that they are not castrated unless there is a medical need and thus chemical castration should be trialed first. I spoke to them regarding the fact the other male dog in the house is castrated and therefore might cause issues if this one remains in tact but they were very 'lets cross that bridge if we come to it'

I did push back that I really wanted him to be castrated. Do not want to have to worry about him being off lead and finding an in season female or any accidental breeding. That our dog walker has a policy that all males on group walks to be castrated by 1 year and we rely on that service etc. Also said we had a contract with the rescue saying we would castrate by 1 year. Vet just sort of shrugged it all off saying well they can't actually make you do it, obviously I said maybe not but I feel its best! Also pointed out that both our pups are rescues of which there are 1000s stuck in kennels so surely castration is part of that solution.

Anyway the vet eventually said we can discuss again in a few months but have a think about it we don't recommend it.

Looked on BVA and actually it says it's unclear and is waiting for more studies.

What is everyone else thinking about this shift? What are other people with puppies doing? It seems from talking to other local owners that all the vets in this area are saying similar things.

I feel like ultimately if I push the vet they will do it however I thought I would see what other options are so I had some consideration first.

Because they are sexually immature under 1 the are not fully loaded with testosterone yet. There is a risk of infighting and dominance in group situations over 1.

Thats a training issue and probably because forcing dogs to pack walk with strange dogs is a big ask. This idea of dog walkers is a modern thing to make up for the fact that people don't actually have time to look after a dog themselves.

So we are castrating dogs in an attempt to get them to do something that isn't really in their nature...

Just find a new vet. We have 2 male dogs and our vet advised us to keep them intact or to only castrate if absolutely necessary. But ultimately the choice is ours.

Our dogs are 2 and 9 months and so far, we’ve had no issues.

That is the reason that walkers and the trainer we used said you asked why it was a "rule" and i answered.

I didn't ask. I am just saying that the idea that it is better to castrate a young dog than train it appropriately and not expect it to pack walk with strange dogs is abhorrent. I am so glad vets are refusing to castrate now. It has always been cruel.

I handwrung over getting my mini poodle girl spayed at 14mos for sure. In the end it was the pyometra possibiliy that scared me into doing it.

I found most people were horrified when I said I was "considering" having her spayed, and automatically asked if I was going to breed from her then (as if that is the only reason to keep a dog intact...) so you are right there is a taboo. I agonised over the decision.

I'm still not sure if I did the right thing but it's done now so no point thinking about it.

Get another vet.

But get good advice first about what age is appropriate.

We had large dogs - Labs - and the advice is not to get them castrated before a year old. It may well be longer for other breeds.

Edited to add, if you don't get a male dog castrated, it becomes hard to send them to board at other people's houses, if you will want to do that in future. This is because they may start "marking" where they smell other dogs once they become sexually mature. I got our first dog castrated not because I felt he needed it particularly, but because I couldn't find anyone who would board him when we went on holidays unless he had been castrated as they understandably didn't want the risk of him cocking his leg in their home.

I tried to hold out not to get mine castrated but in the end I felt he needed to be. He’s a big dog and was done around 18 months. Life has been a bit easier with him since.

He would hump everything in sight incessantly. I know people say it’s not sexual and not related but it certainly reduced a lot after neutering (still does it when excited)
I couldn’t have him off lead as I worried he would run away and hump female dogs which he had a great drive to do
He was barely interested in food at all which made him very hard to train. That changed very quickly after castration which made life easier. We did have to watch his weight but he is in good condition now
He would regularly get ‘started on’ by neutered male dogs and as there are a lot in our area this was a daily occurrence and made life miserable. The tables have now turned and he is reactive to neutered males which is embarrassing but less frequent than it was the other way around.
He was refused by all dog walkers, day care, boarders, kennels etc for being unneutered over a year old as a blanket policy which made it hard to go away.

All in all I don’t regret having him castrated and think he has a better life having been done. He can go off lead now and be recalled reliably, he can play with other dogs which he really enjoys and he seems happier and less stressed as he is not having aggressive interactions with other dogs every day

I'd get him castated at 11 months. Give him chance to finish growing first. That would fit in with rescue centre promise and suit dog walker. If your vet won't castrate I'd go further afield to get him done. He will be less of a target for intact dogs then too.

Absolutely. Cat, dog, or rabbit, the nuts come off. Get a new vet.

A quick google says that older bitches (6+) have a 1 in 4 chance of getting pyrometra poodles are apparently one of the high risk breeds.
Someone in my village delayed getting their dog spayed feeling it was “cruel and unnatural” over the years the dog became increasingly miserable and hassled by male dogs as she insisted to walking her with other dogs when in season and complain when make dogs both castrated and not showed an interest in her. But eventually her vet persuaded her to get her done she was transformed. In fairness to her she admitted that she should have done it years ago.
My bitch is 12 months old no season yet but as soon as I able I will get her spayed.

I have a rescue. It’s part of the terms that he is done In addition I’ve always had cats, who are routinely done as they’re out and about, so I just assumed it would be done.

Our vets don’t recommend it. In their opinion the evidence suggests not to bother unless the dog is particularly humpy and even then they’d go for a behaviourist over trying to fix it with castration. Even if they would do it certainly not until a dog is at least 18 months, probably 2 depending on breed and size. My dog can also be anxious and they were concerned it may make him worse. I went back to the rescue and explained. They were fine to go with the vet’s recommendation.

I also use doggy daycare. The one I use is small so will take unneutered dogs. They just manage it in the same way as you’d manage your own dog.

My dog was done at two years. He seemed more content and happy just to chill out. It was, a good experience for him. And he left the girls alone

But that is about management surely? Dogs can sire pups before 1 year old. And there's a risk of infighting and dominance whether they are neutered or not.

My 3yo is not done. I'm not ruling it out, but so far he has never given me a reason to castrate, he's ok with males, he's not a humper, and easily moves away from a dog in season.

Overall, he's a nervous and anxious dog and I've been advised against depriving him of testosterone.
If one day I want to go down that route, I'll try the chemical castration first. But for now, the balls are staying.

I have rescue dogs, all are neutered quite rightly as there are too many dogs abandoned out there. I have not heard vets take this view, but I would likely change my vet if he did.

What about when all vets accept the new evidence and also refuse as they realise it is bad for the dogs?

I don't understand the relevance to abandoned dogs. If you don't let your dogs roam, it doesn't matter if they aren't neutered.

No dog daycare anywhere near us in London take uncastrated dogs. We had to pull ours out because they all refused. We didn’t want him done but had to (but tbh he was being attacked when we went out by neutered males so I was pondering it anyway).

Well I agree, but unfortunately there are a lot of irresponsible dog owners out there, and many people do. There’s a let your dog out for a pee/walk on its own policy in the more rural parts of my town - the owners have no idea what their dogs are up to.

I guess I’ll cross that bridge if I come to it. All my dogs were done by the charity before I adopted them (although it is something I would have done anyway). If the advice becomes not to do it, I would research it and make a decision. Clearly I wouldn’t do anything that is bad for my dogs!

That's one of the many benefits of adopting an adult dog from a shelter. They are already done and you don't have to wrestle with the decision!

I'd almost certainly keep intact if I did adopt a pup but I know it's not always possible for people, or at least more difficult, or they believe it's more difficult and better a pup gets a home and gets neutered or spayed than stays intact in a shelter. Not ideal but so much about pet ownership is less than ideal sadly.

I had an unspayed bitch - was a rescue and RSPCA couldn't tell if she was spayed so it was a case of wait and see.

Turns out she wasn't and we only discovered this after taking her for a walk and we were followed home by 3 (very small rat type) dogs that caught a sniff and stalked us all the way home. Once I got mine safely inside, I had to keep the 3 dogs shut in my garden and posted on FB to find the owners! All 3 dogs from 2 separate households had escaped their garden 😂.

Moral of the story, if you get your dog neutered they won't go wandering off when they smell a bitch in heat so it's safer for them. (And, their bollocks look horrible anyway so get them chopped).

I think its pretty obvious that lopping off a young mammal's testicles can't be good for it before it stops maturing mentally and physically. What age do you think you could do that to a human male without any negative effects?

How weird to think normal anatomy looks horrible.