The Castration Debate

[stillchasingdereksheppard]

Hi All,

Just wondering what others opinions are on the current castration debate there seems to be with vets? Our vet is adamant that they will only castrate our dog if there is a medical reason and not simply as standard anymore. I am uncomfortable with this and had always planned to have him castrated as he is not a working dog and will not be breeding him and so it seems like the responsible thing to do.

Background

I have a 1 year old male dog that we rescued 6 months ago who was castrated before we adopted him. At the time of adoption we said we would consider a second dog if the right fit came along at the right time as felt that our dog would like the company.
We were contacted by the rescue a couple of months ago to say they had taken in a mother and pups rescued from a fire but mum was attacking pups so they needed to be separated. Estimated to be 8-10 weeks old. We were not sure about it all but agreed to foster as they needed homes quickly. Obviously we fell in love and adopted him.
Puppy is now 4.5 months old. Finished all his vaccinations etc and is fit & healthy. When we last took him into vets for his weight and flea/worming treatments I discussed with them about when they recommend castration. He is a small Jack Russel ISH cross - vet reckons he will be around 8kg fully grown.

Vet is adamant that the new recommendation is that they are not castrated unless there is a medical need and thus chemical castration should be trialed first. I spoke to them regarding the fact the other male dog in the house is castrated and therefore might cause issues if this one remains in tact but they were very 'lets cross that bridge if we come to it'

I did push back that I really wanted him to be castrated. Do not want to have to worry about him being off lead and finding an in season female or any accidental breeding. That our dog walker has a policy that all males on group walks to be castrated by 1 year and we rely on that service etc. Also said we had a contract with the rescue saying we would castrate by 1 year. Vet just sort of shrugged it all off saying well they can't actually make you do it, obviously I said maybe not but I feel its best! Also pointed out that both our pups are rescues of which there are 1000s stuck in kennels so surely castration is part of that solution.

Anyway the vet eventually said we can discuss again in a few months but have a think about it we don't recommend it.

Looked on BVA and actually it says it's unclear and is waiting for more studies.

What is everyone else thinking about this shift? What are other people with puppies doing? It seems from talking to other local owners that all the vets in this area are saying similar things.

I feel like ultimately if I push the vet they will do it however I thought I would see what other options are so I had some consideration first.

That's a big risk for pyometra

Yes, I am fully aware of that, but thank you.

I think it's more a case of badly controlled and trained dogs than a sniffing out the hormones.

I compete with my entire boy - lots of dogs and lots of queuing. No growling or otherwise from the other dogs. (... and if a neutered dog was to attack an entire one, both owners and dog would face a lifetime ban.)
So don't put up with this shite: the owner often said “is that an entire male” and do a “what do you expect” face They haven't taught their dog basic manners.

@Twiglets1 Hi! I’m guessing from your response that you’ve raised a guide dog pup? What an admirable thing to do!
Out of curiosity, why are guide dogs castrated?
I’m feeling like I’ve ruined my boys life after reading this thread, even though I had no choice because of his retained testicle. Surely though if guide dogs are neutered it must have benefits?

I'm not 100% sure of their reasoning but I do know they identify very early the male puppies they might wish to use as stud dogs. The puppies they don't wish to breed from are being raised to be working guide dogs so I guess they don't want the males to be distracted by things like bitches in season. A pet dog we had a few years ago we had castrated later than the guide dog puppy, and being intact did gradually affect his recall as he became more interested in females.

I also don't think the organisation would want to be responsible in any way for their dogs bringing potentially unwanted puppies into the world. That would be awkward for a blind owner if their guide dog started mating with another dog while on a free run, especially if the owner of the bitch was angry about it!

I did feel bad getting my dog castrated at a year old but it definitely didn't ruin his life. He recovered very quickly from the operation and his personality seemed just the same afterwards. It stopped some undesirable behaviours such as the obsession he had with humping his bed. Apart from that he was just as fun loving and happy as before the operation.

Guide dogs are castrated to stop excessive marking. Even the guide dogs have delayed the timing of castration to usually be after the dogs are a year old.

There have been loads of studies on castrated dogs and the only consistent behaviour change has been marking by the dogs decreases after castration.

Re undescended testicles I have had the undescended one removed and left the other dog. Also there is no rush to remoe the undescended testicle as the risk of cancer before the dog is 2 is minimal.

Yes I was told their dogs don't get castrated until shortly after their first birthday when they have stopped growing.

Even that though is really at odds with what's recommended for larger breeds these days

Which is what's so horrifying about the situation in Australian Labradoodles, where the puppies are being neutered before sale at approx 8 weeks old. It raises ethical questions about large scale commercial breeding, and about the vets that are willing to perform this surgery on tiny puppies.
But that's a different debate for a different thread, I know.

I think, as ever, a lot depends on the dog walker. It might not be best for the individual dog to be neutered or spayed but it's probably better for everyone else if the dog happens to be walked by a person who needs their mobile phone glued to their ear for the entire walk and are largely distracted.

That's awful @CoubousAndTourmaIet

Who would even buy a puppy that has been neutered before they are 8 weeks old? People need to stand up against this sort of practice.