Beyond Adolescence - part 2

[SpanielsGalore]

No point banning coffee, as it didn't work last time. 🙄
Haven't had any cake updates from a while. @VanGoSunflowers Have you stopped baking already? You still had 8 cakes to go to make it economical.

@brushingboots I sometimes think that level of resilience that you have, and that others have, can make it a little harder in some ways to deal with such a stressful situation. Because you’re blindsided by your reaction to it. I remember seeing many dear friends suffering during Covid with their mental health and it was compounded by them being taken completely by surprise with how their bodies and minds reacted to the situation. I had suffered anxiety on and off many years so was able to put coping mechanisms in place when I knew it was all kicking off if that makes sense?

I know a lot of people balk at the idea of comparing puppies to babies but in my limited experience, they are extremely similar situations and I have seen a lot of the same judgemental reactions towards new mothers of babies - making out that they will some how harm and damage their child if they so much as put them down for a nap on their own for ten minutes so they can shower. YOU have to be ok to be effective at raising a child or a puppy. It’s why I take the whole ‘put your own oxygen mask on first’ thing so seriously. I am a fair better mother and dog owner when I am in a good headspace and both DS and Pablo deserve the best version of me that I can possibly give them x

I've posted on that thread too. I had a terrible time for ages with Boo. I'm not really one for the drama either, but it was embarrassingly stressful. I variously wanted to send him back, was convinced he'd kill us all, was convinced the RSPCA had both literally and figuratively 'sold us a pup'. I was in tears a lot, and felt so judged.

My initial instinct to overdramatics is, if I'm honest, "Oh FFS", but then I remember how hard I found it.

I don’t think you’re being a dick @TheHungryHungryLandsharks, we all have different experiences of life and all the tough things we have to endure at times and we can only really speak from our own experiences at the end of the day. We are all different. But we all have more in common than we realise - especially dogs and cake and coffee

It got me carted off in an ambulance once. That's how bad it gets. I had fluttering heart and couldn't breathe. They gave me every test possible and sent me home after telling me it was a panic attack. Already said here the other week that I was taken out of school at 13 because of my anxiety, so you'd think I'd know better than to judge others...😞

I think my issue is that I find puppies so much easier than people and it probably makes me complacent. Plus Brie was a dream puppy. She was difficult at 6/7 months, but as a tiny pup she was easy.

All this makes me realise two things:
Firstly, how lucky I was with Brie, that up until about 5 months, when the lead walking got harder, she was a very easy pup. She toilet trained quickly, didn't wreck the house despite being free range, slept well, wasn't barky or whiny, loved her food, great with other dogs. She was a very calm, contented puppy.
Secondly, how much experience counts. I was 9 pups in, so initially I had none of those doubts about whether I was getting things right. I was relaxed enough to just go with the flow. It was almost too easy at the beginning.

Then by the time she was 8 months old I was deep in adolescent blues, filled with self doubt and calling in a trainer 🙄

So yeah, I must do better regarding judging others 😞

@brushingboots Thank you for sharing your experiences. I could have written your post about my then newborn twins. I struggled so much in the first 3 months. It was awful- they would tag team with sleeping, crying and feeding so it was constant. It got to the point where I felt I was going to do something to them or me. That was the catalyst at 3 months old when I decided that I needed to take control, and they would follow my schedule and sod ‘baby-led’ nonsense. Things improved so much after that.
With Midge I was starting to get the same feelings, particularly around sleeping (or lack of) so the ear plugs went in, both doors downstairs were shut and I’m afraid he was left to whine. It didn’t take him long to sleep through and, like with the twins, it gave me a feeling of control back. I had read lots about this causing separation anxiety etc, but it hasn’t.

Posted in a rush before, so just want to add:
My sprocker ended up in rescue at 16 weeks old, because the original owner couldn't cope with a puppy. And I know of puppies as young as 12 weeks who have been surrendered into rescue.
Some puppies are bloody hard work and if you've never had one before, it can be a shock to the system. Even going from an old dog to a young puppy is a shock, to be honest. We went from two 14 year olds, who slept most of the time, to a 7 month old, who was swinging off the curtains. Or humping them. 🙈😂

Moving on.....
Dropped N at the vets this morning to be spayed. The plan was to come home and take the other two out. But before I got out, the vets phoned to say they wouldn't spay her as she's lactating. So I've collected her and we're both having breakfast instead.
Walks and wallpapering will have to wait. Again. 🙈

Phantom pregnancy @SpanielsGalore ? Sylvie had one that triggered lactation and we bought her a little white teddy to carry around.

@VanGoSunflowers I think I have said before, I am glad I had my children before the days of the Internet. Back then, we didn't know we were doing it wrong. 😂
But I read posts on here by people totally stressed out because they forgot to give their baby vitamins (wasn't a thing in my day) and that you can't leave a baby under 6 months unattended at all in case it dies of SIDS. Talk about putting the fear of God into people.
And I do wonder what guidance other countries give. It's like the 5 a day foods. Other countries say 7 a day, so who's to say we're right? 🤷‍♀️

Glass collectors are here. I've had to pick up a trembling P. 😢 Her anxiety is getting worse, if no one else's is.

No other symptoms, so I don't think so. She lactated after her last season and during this one too.

@VanGoSunflowers - I have to say, I found DDs much MUCH harder than puppies. But by the point I had DDs, I had already raised 3 litters myself and had helped DMum raise 10. But I do think for a lot of people (I appreciate I am a very special case) the comparison should be made more often as it is helpful.

When DD2 was 6 months, I went back to work @SpanielsGalore (in part because I did need a break from parenting and work has always been my escape) and the way people acted at the time you'd have thought that I'd committed mass murder or similar - lots of quoting articles on the internet about how I'd never bond with her because I wasn't there for her 'informative years' and how she would struggle as a child without a mothers love and other such bollocks. The misinformation that people quote as gospel really is bonkers.

@CoubousAndTourmaIet I feel bad as well, but I still think heart palpitations do require a doctor - as you say, they can be very serious (which was what my post on that thread was aimed at). DMum had a cardiac event a few weeks ago (ended up in resus), and the doctors were horrified she'd never been in before - and she had been having palpitations for weeks. She put it down to stress. Now she has to have two major operations including a CABG.

All of this waffle was meant to say, I agree raising children and dogs is very similar. 😂

Got distracted by P asking to be picked up.

@TheHungryHungryLandsharks That's a prime example of other countries doing things differently. I know someone who went back to work when their baby was three weeks old, because maternity leave isn't a thing in the country she was in. She didn't get slated for it or told her child would suffer.
I worked when mine were little, as I was bored out of my brain. There's only so many games of Playmobile people you can play before losing the will to live.

Oh my gosh @TheHungryHungryLandsharks , I hope your mum is okay. No wonder you have medical concerns about palpitations in that case.
No, palpitations absolutely is not normal for most people who don't have anxiety. It was understandable when the poster had not mentioned her medical history. She's now said she has anxiety and has had them before so that kind of explains it, as it does with me and @VanGoSunflowers
It's still scary. I have fibro/costochondralgia and periodically wake up with chest pain, that triggers palpitations and every single time it happens I'm convinced it's my heart. I've had it for 30 years, but it still scares me. So much as we normalise it by saying anxiety, it is still a worrying thing.

@TheHungryHungryLandsharks Sorry. I replied to your comment to me, without reading the reply to @CoubousAndTourmaIet .
I hope your DMum will be OK. You must all be very worried. Your DH's return is well timed. Hopefully he is a good support. X

@SpanielsGalore
Have you tried the Dorwest Herbs Skullcap & Valerian tablets for P's anxiety? They helped hugely with Brie's noise sensitivity to fireworks and rattly vehicles. We were astonished by how quickly they worked - we'd aready tried Johnsons calm-eze and Lambert's Dog calming tablets and they did nothing. The Dorwest stuff is on another level. Brilliant product. We'll be dosing her up for fireworks at New Year.

@SpanielsGalore Thank you - he's actually already back in Europe (left yesterday lunch). He'll be home again on Christmas Eve. Sadly it takes time for appropriate cover to be found to do his role, even on a temporary basis until a more permanent replacement can be found, and he didn't want to leave the team he's leaving behind short staffed.

@CoubousAndTourmaIet yes I can imagine that's absolutely terrifying!

I haven't ducked back into that thread to read her updates tbh. I'm terrible for reading follow up posts as I assume all the info is in the first post - which is very much how I approach work as well...

I probably should, but I tend to get distracted at work and on MN there's just so many follow up posts usually that I just mute them 😳

@CoubousAndTourmaIet I haven't. She's on loads of different things for several issues at the minute. I need to give them two weeks to see if they'll help. I think we are one week in, but she's been awful today. Bin days are always bad, but she seems worse this week. She won't go outside on her own, so I just went out with her.
Couldn't have timed it any better. We got half way down the garden path, when a load of glass smashed in the distance. She turned round and came running to be picked up.
I'd like to take her to the woods for a good run and adrenaline boost, but she wouldn't cope with the 12 minutes drive there. She's barely coping with the 3 minutes to the sea front. 😞

@TheHungryHungryLandsharks Bollocks. Sorry. I thought he was home for good. 🤦‍♀️ I vaguely remember now you said Christmas time.

@SpanielsGalore it's fine - I appreciate that you remembered!😀He's home for good on XMas eve but was home last weekend just to spend time with me (DDs have gone out to see him twice over the last few months but because of the litter/Pen I didn't go as I didn't want to leave her). Although admittedly he ended up spending most of his time on dog duty - either caring for Eris or holding the dogs leads whilst I either walked the others or did some last minute Christmas shopping😅I credit the secret to our marriage as him just doing as he's told...he's nearly as well trained as the dogs.

I'm sorry about P! Do you think it's the pain making her a bit skittish/nervous or more just her predisposition? How do K & N react when she's being a bit nervous? Are they okay, or do they react as well?

@VanGoSunflowers I totally agree – when you feel (mostly) invincible, discovering your genuine and perfectly reasonable weaknesses out of the blue is rather disconcerting! Makes total sense and I’m glad in a way that I went through it because now if I do have a baby I’ll know a little bit about how I might expect to feel, and how to cope with it.

Also totally, totally agree about putting your oxygen mask on first. That’s why I had pupsy downstairs to sleep to start with (and until about three months ago!) – so that I could sleep, so that the next day I could care for her to the best of my ability, and also be able to work to pay for her. I hope I remember that if/when I have a baby! No doubt I’ll be chatting away about it on the successor to this thread!

@BackToLurk ‘embarrassingly stressful’ is exactly how I’d describe it! I am really no-nonsense about almost everything but it genuinely floored me and it felt pathetic. But it wasn’t, it was just my body and brain’s reaction to something that I hadn’t done before.

@Nella68 I have so much admiration for you having had twins – well bloody done! At this stage of my life, though the clock is ticking loudly, I can’t imagine having one baby let alone two. My realisation was very similar with pupsy – that I was the adult and she was jolly well going to do what I said. Taking control made such a difference and like you I haven’t observed any ill effects.

@TheHungryHungryLandsharks Absolutely fair play to you going back to work at six months. If I have this hypothetical only child I am pretty determined that I will be enrolling them in nursery sharpish so that I can continue to be who I am without a baby. Not because I won’t love my baby but because I am also a person. It’s one of the things I worry about most about the idea of having a baby, that I’ll lose who I am. It probably sounds dumb but when I drop pupsy at nursery and go out for the day in nice clothes, though it’s almost always for work it’s also for me and for eight to ten hours I can be a person who is just travelling on a train or in a car and reading a book or mindlessly scrolling and not also slaving to a spaniel’s ever need.

And @SpanielsGalore I am also sorry about P. Poor girlie. And N not being able to be spayed! What a day.

@SpanielsGalore I had to avoid parenting forums when DS was a baby for that reason 😂 I think it’s crazy that in a lot of ways, life has gotten harder for families but the expected ‘standards’ of parenting have gone the other way. I was dragged up in the 80s and 90s and think I’ve turned out relatively well 😂
Also sorry to hear P is struggling ❤️

@TheHungryHungryLandsharks I mean it probably speaks volumes that I never wanted another child but can definitely see myself getting another puppy at some point 😂 so sorry to hear about your mum’s health problems. I hope she makes a full recovery ❤️

@CoubousAndTourmaIet I don’t know if this resonates with you, but I find the hardest part of anxiety is how it spirals. You become afraid of the anxiety itself and it keeps you trapped almost in a loop. You become afraid of the physical manifestations of it which makes you more likely to have another physical manifestation 😞

Awww, poor P, it sounds as if she's having a hard time @SpanielsGalore Hopefully the supplements will start to take effect once they get into her system.

I thought your DH was home for good too @TheHungryHungryLandsharks . He sounds much better trained than mine, I have to say 🙄

@brushingboots It is my humble opinion that a mum who does not lose herself in motherhood and is able to retain a decent semblance of who she is outside of being a mum sets a damn good example for their child(ren). I have never classed myself as maternal, but I think it’s ended up being a good thing!

Do you think that one of the main similarities between puppies and children is that they need boundaries as well as a lot of love? Taking charge, telling your puppy and/or child that this is how things are going to be brings a huge sense of comfort to them I think. I know if I am ever overwhelmed in a situation and someone comes along and takes charge and says ‘do this’ I always breathe a sigh of relief, it must be like that all the time for young ones of either species 😂 otherwise I’m looking around thinking “fuck, I need to be a grown up”

Exactly that @VanGoSunflowers
As you say, one thing triggers another, it becomes a physical battle and you start waking up with a horrible dread of not being able to control it.
At the moment I'm in a strange phase of being anxious about the fact that I don't know what I'm anxious about. Sometimes it takes over for no obvious reason.