Beyond Adolescence - part 2

[SpanielsGalore]

No point banning coffee, as it didn't work last time. 🙄
Haven't had any cake updates from a while. @VanGoSunflowers Have you stopped baking already? You still had 8 cakes to go to make it economical.

@TheHungryHungryLandsharks P's nervousness definitely started as a reaction to pain. When the pain stopped, her reactivity did too.
Now - your guess is as good as mine. She must be in some degree of pain, because of her knee and the restricted movement in her hips. God knows if there is something else going on too that I am missing. 🤷‍♀️
Perhaps one of the supplements isn't agreeing with her. 🤷‍♀️
Or perhaps she's just become a nervous wreck after going through so much lately. 🤷‍♀️

Wednesday is never a good day, but today has been worse than ever. We have 5 bins out today. She's constantly on edge, listening out for any sound, despite me having music playing. Her tails tucked under. If I am standing in the kitchen, she sits leaning against my legs. If I sit down, she lies next to me.

I'll give her a licky mat spread with pate. I think licking is supposed to release good endorphins, isn't it? Got to be worth a try.

@VanGoSunflowers This is it. My children were dragged up in the 80s, 90s and 00s. Back in the 70s and early 80s, we weren't even dragged. We were out the door first thing, playing out all day and home when it got dark. With no mobile phones to check on our whereabouts. And babies were left in the garden, sleeping in their prams, to get some fresh air. But apparently now we know better.
I bet children in some African and Asian countries aren't so molly coddled. My DS loves all things Japan. He watches a programme where they send children as young as 3 years old to the shops to buy groceries. Obviously they are followed by camera crew and have people strategically placed along the route. But the children are all so confident and capable. Can you imagine doing that in the UK?

Little pup was returned to the breeder the same day she was picked up! We picked her up the following day.

@SpanielsGalore - that's annoying about the spay. At least when we had the same this time last year they did all those checks before we left the surgery. Then of course, 3 weeks later when we tried again we had an equipment failure so it ended up mid Jan in the end. Has she just had the one season?

The thing for me with social media, besides all the 'terrifically useful' yet often contradictory advice, is that everyone's heavily curated presentation of their life with dogs doesn't show the reality. I was convinced that an online friend had a great life with her dogs until she came clean privately. Turns out they were neurotic, couldn't be taken anywhere and one was quite vicious.

I might try the skullcap @CoubousAndTourmaIet Boo's quite an 'on edge' dog. Definitely getting better all the time, but gets set back by life events (fireworks etc).

Home your mum feels better soon @TheHungryHungryLandsharks although I don't know about where she is, but here any 'why didn't you see a Dr sooner' remark might be met with a hollow laugh and a 'chance would be a fine thing' I've also been to my GP with palpitations and been made to feel a bit like I was wasting their time. Feels like you can't win.

How fortunate for Little Pup. 💖
N is my 10 year old foster. She's had two seasons since being with me, in February and August. She's lactated after both seasons, so the vets have cancelled the spay twice. She was also lactating in August, whilst she was in season, which is unusual.
I don't know her history before coming into foster.
Unfortunately this morning, the vet doing the operation had a later start, so I left N with the vet nurse for the vet to make the decision.

I was just wondering whether you knew how much leeway you had between seasons. With the little one, she had 8 months between her first and second season so I was reasonably confident that we'd be able to spay on that cycle despite the delays

@SpanielsGalore I have very fond memories of being out playing all day - back in to wolf your dinner down and straight back out. My parents had no clue where I was or what I was doing, just gave me a time to be home by. I’m so glad I grew up when I did, before the explosion of the internet and mobile phones and social media.
There’s a gentleman called Jonathan Haidt who I think is a psychologist and he is always talking about how we over protect kids in the real world and under protect them online. It’s a tough one, I can understand why some parents would be tempted to use phone trackers for their children but it’s hopefully something I won’t do with DS. He’s too young for a phone (he has just turned 8) but I do let him play on the park out the front of my house and have done since the beginning of the summer when he was 7. It’s a quiet street and he does have to cross the road to get there, but he is a sensible kid and usually pops back every ten minutes of his own accord to tell me about a friend he has made or a stick he found that looks like Voldemort’s wand 😂
But I got some bad reactions on the ‘other place’ when I told them that. Apparently I am being reckless with his safety 🤦‍♀️

I struggled with (human) babies as well. My biggest support was from the mother and baby/toddler groups, and I’m still friends with the mums twenty plus years later.

@VanGoSunflowers My GS was 8 last week. They live on a new build estate with green areas in the middle of the houses, IYKWIM. He's been playing out with his friends for at least a year. At first he had to stay on the green area, so DD could see him through the window. Then he was allowed to ride his bike around the block, but had to say hello to the ring doorbell every lap. 😂
There's a lot of truth in what that psychologist says. Most parents have no idea what their children are up to on the Internet. Or who they are gaming with.

@tizwozliz I was told she'd had a season in May. Then she had one in February, so it was a 9 month gap. But then only a 6 month gap before August. The vets have said we can check her in the new year and see if it can go ahead then. But is it worth putting a 10.5 year old dog with mobility issues through an elective operation? Fortunately, that's one for the rescue to decide.

@SpanielsGalore a spay is quite a big op for an older dog, but I guess the incidence of pyrometra increases with age, so better to do it whilst she’s well is better than risk it developing?Does the rescue have a blanket neuter policy?

@VanGoSunflowers I remember the joys of playing out. We were proper hoodlums and would catch the ponies in the field and ride them (I’ve no idea who they belonged to). Making fires for toasting marshmallows was another favourite pastime, it’s a wonder we didn’t set the woods alight!
It’s great you have a park nearby.

I tried the xmas thing with M. He sat very patiently whist I laid them out and when I said ‘ok’ to release him he shot into his cage where he is fed. The poor boy was very confused and wouldn’t eat the kibble until I’d picked it up and put it in his snuffle mat.

The liquid version of the Dorwest skullcap & valerian was great for a quick fix on bonfire night @BackToLurk It has a measured dropper, so we put a dose in some Greek yoghurt and within about 10 or 15 minutes she'd stopped pacing around panting and settled quietly.
We put her on the tablets for only a few days and it seemed to calm her vehicle noise sensitivity, without making her groggy. I felt like that short burst really helped, without her needing them long term. So yes, they're useful to have as an emergency backup for fireworks, vet trips, visitors etc.

Had a lovely quiet 90 minute wander through the woods this afternoon. It nicely satisfies the Direwolf and feeds my inner Elf 😊

@Nella68 Awww bless him. 💖 He looks quite big there.
N's food bowl is in a raised feeder. I put P's in there once and she wouldn't eat it, because it wasn'ther spit. Don't think K would have such qualms. 😂

The rescue does have a blanket policy on neutering. But at some point, it can't be fair to an elderly dog to put them through elective surgery. I don't know enough to weigh up the pros and cons. So it's a good job it's not my decision to make.

My Dog kept grabbing the kibble, so took a few attempts.

Another site is doing something similar. .Todays game they called ‘The Blah Blah’ fame. . Basically, you say random words and insert a command in to see if they are listening

eg. Christmas, Cracker, Sit, Tree

Red, Yellow, Down, Blue, Red etc

Our old trainer used to do this with with recall

Banana, lemon, strawberry, come

She called it Fruity Come

She’s very inconveniently gone to have a child

Just picked up little pup from the out of hours vets where she spent the night after eating over a 1kg of kibble yesterday and having to have her stomach pumped. I'm pretty sure she's not learned anything from the ordeal!

With regard to the kids, dogs conversation, I think I'm defined by the dogs. I have no kids - I made that decision early because of my mental health. My mum was a manic depressive and I didn't think it was fair to put my kids through similar with my own MH issues. So no kids. We got our first PMD when I was 13, a few months after I'd been taken out of school following my breakdown. I've spent my whole adult life with these dogs. As most of you know, Brie is my 8th.
After we lost Algy, suddenly, to a vaccine reaction at 7, we had no dog for 3 years until puppy Brie came along last year. For those three years I didn't feel like me. I hardly left the house. I painted and read obsessively but felt that my life had no focus. I seem to be the opposite to people who feel trapped by their dog. I need a dog in my life. Well, a PMD anyway.
I don't think they're a child substitute or in any way connected to my childless state. I don't baby them, because with a dog this size you just can't. But they are my number one priority and without them I feel lost. They give me a reason to get out of the house and with agoraphobic tendencies that is why I refer to them as my emotional support dogs. MY GP acknowledges this - she has seen the difference that Brie has made to my life and she has met her. To me, they are more than just a dog, they make me who I am. Without them I'm a lost child.

Also want to say that with regard to social media and the information overload, I feel lucky that I had dogs long before we had internet. However, mn in particular gave me an enormous amount of insecurity about my puppy rearing methods. I'd trained them all myself up until Brie, who has had input from both a trainer (in relation to lead walking) and a behaviourist (for noise anxiety).
Now, further down the line and £300 poorer, I regret having done this. But you learn from your mistakes I guess.
I've taken none of their advice about training or feeding and we're happy with where we are right now.
I wish she had more confidence around dogs, she is very babyish submissive; an off lead spaniel circled her and grumbled at her yesterday and she hid behind my DP, but hopefully a second dog might help in that regard.

But as regards training - trust your instincts and don't be afraid to break the rules! A lot of the advice out there is dodgy and best ignored.

@CoubousAndTourmaIet I very often think that without the internet (and a few other things) the world would be a much better place!

@tizwozliz hope your pup is okay! How did she manage to eat so much!? Did she ninja toward the food bag when you weren't looking?

@BackToLurk we have an excellent A&E near us! She walked in, (dragged by me), and within five minutes had been seen and within another five was in resuss. Then straight to the cardiac ward four hours later, three different scans/tests and then discharged the next day. Really couldn't fault them.

@SpanielsGalore it could well just be she's so overwhelmed, bless her. Poor P! How is she doing today? I suppose the only good (not that it's good) part of if it is she trusts you enough to followed you - leaning against you, jumping into your arms. It gives you a base to try and help her from.

Sorry to hear about N as well, poor girl. Are you going to try again>

@VanGoSunflowers We only have two as I said to DH if he wanted another one then it had to be nearly straight away, whilst he was still in the UK, because there was no way I was doing it all myself!! I definitely couldn't have coped alone - particularly not with Hen being a puppy and having adult dogs at the same time. Puppies are just easier, and their love is just so special - they don't torment their sibling just because they're a bit irritating!

@brushingboots I don't think it sounds dumb at all! I was so terrified of losing who I was (and my career) because of the kids. I love them, that goes without saying, but the fear of losing all that I had built/worked for/myself because of them was crippling. To be fair, it's a stance I take now - DDs both do sports most evenings and on the weekend, and part of that is because they love their sports, but a smaller part is because it gives me 'time' to myself. Perhaps you'll be able to find a nursery that will take both pupsy and the baby😀

I 100% agree on people trusting their instincts on dog raising. I know people (including dog trainers...) who think the sexiphant I give Twatdog is a terrible idea, and I'm a lazy and bad owner for it. But I know for him better than they do - sometimes he just needs to get his wank on. Then he's fine again 5 minutes later. Not all dogs are the same. Some a good girls and boys...and some are like Twatdog.

Hope everyone is having better weather than I am - freezing cold rain and strong winds which whipped the rain into my eyes. Of course this meant that I treated myself to a bacon roll (with extra bacon - two rashers is not enough) and a latte this morning because terrible weather and dog walking = nice reward for being a good dog mother.

@tizwozliz Poor Little Pup. And poor you I imagine after an OOH appointment. I hope she's alright today. As you say, I doubt it's put her off her food.

@CoubousAndTourmaIet I have children, but the dogs are still my babies. 😁 (Not furbabies, I hate that term.) I don't think I baby them. They are family members and we share a home, with a few rules to allow us to live harmoniously together. They give me a reason to get up in the morning and to get out of the house. Without them, I'd be in bed until midday and spend my time binge watching crap on TV, whilst playing on my tablet. And I wouldn't be on MN, as I only joined to defend cocker spaniels. 😂

I have found the Internet helpful with my dogs with issues. But I was very fortunate in finding the right people from the beginning. Many of whom have become good friends over the past almost 20 years. Unfortunately, there are a lot of awful trainers giving bad advice out there too. I had to leave a springer group as it was full of posts recommending aversive methods.

P is very submissive/appeasing by nature. She'll approach dogs in a crawl and roll on her back to show she isn't a threat. And if the other dog is too exuberant for her, she'll come and ask to be picked up. She also doesn't like big groups of dogs. I think 3 is her limit.
I'm not sure K has helped, other than by being a distraction for the other dog. She will run and play with other dogs, so P can say hello and then be left in peace.

I think I typed a lot without saying very much there. 🙈 😂

@TheHungryHungryLandsharks I read posts once by someone who said she actually wanked her dog, because he needed that release, so I think a sexiphant is a much better alternative. 😁

P left the room because I cleared my throat, but came back when the street cleaning lorry came round.

As regards N, I have offered up my two penneth worth to the rescue and am leaving it to the Trustees to decide.

The bacon batch sounds nice. I'm going to wake my lot up and take them out now. Cold but dry here. Then I can come home and make myself a sausage sandwich whilst stripping wallpaper. Really need to get the kitchen finished before Christmas.

Ugh! Sorry @tizwozliz , hadn't seen your post until just now.

Hope pup is okay x

@SpanielsGalore

I always type a lot without saying very much 😬

Brie is a bit like P, she's easily overwhelmed by boisterous dogs, particularly if they bark or grumble at her, she'll try to run and hide behind us. I think if we let her off she'd be a bolter and run home, which is why I live in fear of a dog having a go at her when I'm walking her by myself.

Foul weather here this morning @TheHungryHungryLandsharks and I need to walk down for my inhaler prescription 🙄

Oh and by the way, in case anyone is wondering, no we didn't feel the earthquake.

@SpanielsGalore what on earth!? Who would do that to their poor dog!? People are weird.

Ohh poor P! Satan does that as well, but she runs off barking at top volume if someone makes an unexpected noise. But like P, always comes back when something scarier appears. It drives us crackers, but knowing she'll always come back if something does scare her is reassuring as it wasn't always the case. It just shows how far she has gone, and in your case shows that P really does trust you.

I love a good sausage sandwich (but it does need to be a roll). 😍My absolute guilty pleasure is eggs benedict, but trying to find somewhere that does them well (i.e. doesn't just microwave their poached eggs) is impossible. There's a place in Holt, near where we go on holiday, which does them but they're no dogs allows and it feels cruel to eat nice food without giving the dogs any.

Fingers crossed it stays dry for your walk!

@CoubousAndTourmaIet there was an earthquake?!?

I know what you mean about living in fear. Twatdog went through a bit of a fearful stage and he would cower behind me and I was really worried about him bolting. Satan did it once to DMum a few months after she bought her home - thankfully she bolted down the main road straight back to my parents house. Clever girl. But she was back on the lead for a few months after that whilst DMum worked on her confidence. I do think people really fail to understand that boisterous dogs are intimidating to other dogs - no matter how large the other dog is. It's like they fail to realise big dogs can be easily intimidated as well.

My hedge trimmer is here, and because it's still pouring, I went out with a coffee for him to warm him up. Poor bloke acted like I'd proposed to him from the way he reacted. I thought he was going to cry 😳

@TheHungryHungryLandsharks

hope your pup is okay! How did she manage to eat so much!? Did she ninja toward the food bag when you weren't looking?

Something like that, I'd bought a bag of forthglade kibble which i use for training, normally it gets put in a tub, but after opening it and using it to spell Xmas the other night I'd just put it away in the pantry. Pantry door got left open and the rest is history. As it was an almost brand new bag I was able to weigh it and assess just how much she'd eaten. Was keeping an eye on her and when she tried to vomit but did nothing got her to the vet. She was otherwise reasonably happy at this stage.

She has an injection to make her vomit but still couldn't bring anything up. They actually called me at this point and said was I sure it was this dog as there was nothing clinically obvious at that point. I was fairly sure as the older one wouldn't gorge on kibble (she'd helped herself to a couple of lamb tracheas instead!) and also little one had weighed a kg above her normal weight on the scales.

They did an X-ray at that point (I've since seen it, it's quite impressive) and found her stomach absolutely massive and packed with food. So stomach pump it was due to the risk of torsion. It took them hours as apparently it had all congealed into a giant lump.

This was all at the regular vets, she was discharged from there to out of hours for fluids and monitoring overnight. Poor thing was so excited to see us again only for us to go drop her off somewhere else.

No idea of total cost, the vets will do a direct claim. The out of hours was £290 which I thought was quite reasonable as that's normally the cost of just walking through the door.

Not a fun day anyhow, I really thought it was just going to be a case of vomiting it up and that would be it. Could have been worse though, no torsion so we avoided an operation.