Our Cosmic Autumn Rebellion (Adolescent Support Group)

[MonCoubousMonTourmalet]

Okay folks, let's head into late summer/autumn.

I'm here. Thanks for all the support.

I panicked and zapped myself again 🙄I cried until I felt sick, then I saw posts here and signed up with my other email and my new user name is my dog's name. I'm not banned or anything so no issues with that.
Obviously I can't post where I've posted before, but this thread is the exception and I'm making it known that it's me.

I've run the whole thing by my partner and a close friend. He doesn't think it's about me but she does. He thinks it's just a weird coincidence because obviously there was no car, no girl...

So, IF it is about me, neither of them think it's someone local. If I was being talked about in those terms, or pup was being moaned about, there are people near us who we know well and they would have told my chap. Also, when the collar came off we were together so that doesn't fit the narrative either. Nor does the fact that she always road walks beautifully and only plays up on the meadow.

They don't think it's connected with the dog trainer either, because of the language; the phrasing sounds like somebody older and more literate. They both made the observation that it looks like something that was composed, re-written, edited, not a hastily typed "OMG I'm so shocked at this, I must share" type of thing at all. So it was planned, and whether it is about me or someone else, the story does not ring true, according to my teacher friend...🤔

Anyway, nothing I can do, but big dog hate comments always cut deep.

My partner has walked our girl tonight.

I have the choice to avoid walking her or tough it out.
I have the choice to post here or be too afraid/intimidated to mention my pup.

I don't know how I will feel tomorrow, but I'm enormously grateful to all of you for the kind words x

@Flowerfusion

Two signs of season; they can appear a bit restless, hot and panty, and also they get kind of a weird salty, sweaty odour that can be noticeable if they roll over.

I'm also shocked at the vets comments. In a much older dog they may have some validity, but this is a puppy. They should suggest a behaviourist before mentioning more drastic measures.

@SpanielsGalore that made me laugh, I am a unashamedly fan of GSDs. And my new rescue is everything I expect of the breed (he isn't pure but the GSD is definitely dominant)

I take no offence as know you don't mean any. There is a clear 'society' judgement of GSDs but in general it works in my favour - as I've said in previous threads I don't allow lead greetings, but owning a GSD means virtually all dog owners don't want their dog to greet mine. I have always owned large breeds but still feel the pressure, larger breeds are not easily forgiven.

@Aubrielle love you new name x also agree about the season advice.

@Flowerfusion There's probably a reason that vet is a locum. I'm useless with signs of seasons. I only realise when they start leaving spots of blood on their bedding.

@IchLiebeDeutscheSchaferhunde Glad you weren't offended. I don't know why GSDs have a bit of a reputation. Wonder if it's from the training videos you see of them apprehending offenders.
We sometimes meet a couple of GSDs up here. I admit I was nervous the first time my dogs met each of them. But that's because of the size difference rather than the breed. K is only 8kg, so easily squashable. 😂 We have much more trouble with the obese lab.

@Aubrielle Glad you've stuck around. I think it's a nasty, spiteful MN member, who gets kicks out of upsetting people. They've got details from your posts and embellished a work of fiction around them. Even the replies sound false, calling people mean. Fortunately no one backed them up.

An anniversary. It's 48 years today since we got our first PMD ❤
Makes me feel bloody ancient, I admit, but I feel so lucky to still be sharing my life with the same breed.

@SpanielsGalore @Flowerfusion the only ways I’ve ever been able to tell a season is coming is my girls getting a lot clingier and snappier with others…as well as the usual physical symptoms (TMI probably for first thing in the morning, but mine’s vulvas go a bright red and very puffy about 2-3 days before. I only notice that as they spend so much time on their back with their legs open. Sigh.

Sorry to hear about your troubles @Flowerfusion.

@Aubrielle glad to see you back! Us large dog women need to stick together (if you leave me alone I might be converted into spaniel ownership !!!)😃

@Aubrielle yay ❤️ I found that thread after I posted yesterday and it seemed so transparent to me - a judgemental attack on giant dog owners wrapped up in faux concern for the girl. I’ve never known a place like MN - especially on the AIBU board. It’s like another planet.

@IchLiebeDeutscheSchaferhunde I absolutely ADORE GSDs - I was going to get one myself until it was (quite rightly) pointed out that perhaps it’s not a good idea for a first time owner which is how I ended up with my Lab ❤️ don’t get me wrong, I am Lab convert totally but there’s something about a GSD. I saw a few at one of the local parks recently and they were all impeccably behaved. Even one that was off lead trotted past us with his owner and ignored us completely. How long have you owned them? Would you say they’re a lot of work compared to other breeds and does that depend on whether they’re working line or show line? I always imagined it’s quite different from a socialisation aspect, too - please tell me if I am talking rubbish as I am a total novice but I often wonder about breed traits and how anxiety comes out in different ways in different dogs when they’re afraid - some are natural fighters and others are natural flighters maybe?

The town I live in is quite a densely populated town, I’ve lived here my whole life so I see all sorts of different breeds of all sizes and I can quite honestly say I’ve never had one negative experience with anyone else’s dog (only some owners!) I don’t have a bias against large or giant breeds (any breeds, really) - in fact, I have the utmost respect for anyone who can be a responsible owner for these beautiful dogs. In the right hands, I think they make wonderful pets (same can be said for all dogs I guess!)

@Flowerfusion I hope things improve for your girl x

As regards GSD and other large breeds; where we live, I don't stand out that much. Up our end of the village there's loads of big dogs. No less than 5 GSD (oddly, all male), three of which are walked by women, 4 Dobermans (2m, 2f), again, 3 walked by women, a Berner bitch with female owner, admittedly the male Leo and the male Bully are male owned. But large dogs abound here and women get no hassle from locals, only from the white van men but that's another story altogether 🙄

I can truthfully say we've had no issues with any of the above dogs. The GSD are all lead walked, that's not to say they're never allowed off, but I've only ever seen them on leads. Two of the Dobes are female and run free on the meadow; the other two male, again lead walked.

I feel attitudes have changed in recent years and this is borne out by what I see here on MN. It seems significant to me that GSD are being lead walked but Goldies and Labs not, although the physical size difference isn't that great and neither is the trainability. I think the media has a lot to answer for in this regard as to some breeds being perceived as good but others bad.

We're far more wary of small dogs; pugs, dachshunds, border terriers, but our only significant dog inflicted injuries (requiring vet treatment) came from what you'd least expect; a Lab and a border collie.

Happy Anniversary @Aubrielle I hope you have a lovely day with your beautiful girl. ❤️

Back in England, we saw a variety of breeds. The most badly behaved in the local park was a tiny JR x Patterdale. He had goes at most of the other dogs and once came away from a white GSD with a mouthful of fur. Fortunately the GSD didn't react.
(Obviously my reactive cocker was bad, but I wasn't stupid enough to walk him in a busy park.)
Up here, it's mostly gundog breeds. A few collies, GSDs and cockerpoos. And a dalmatian - you don't see many of those these days.

@LandSharksAnonymous P is definitely more clingy and snappy this time. I think N might have come into season too. Either that or she's just being a sex pest because P is. Last time N was so swollen that, when I lifted her into the car, I thought she'd grown a pair of testicles. 😳

@Aubrielle I'm wary of small dogs too, but it's mostly because I know if something happens it'll be my dogs that are blamed. To be honest, the only dogs my dogs really seem to want to greet (i.e. they don't just walk pat and ignore them) are other Goldies (I think their wanky chakras just align and they see another Goldie and think 'ohh I bet they're as stupid as me) and Cockers. They might occasionally say hi to a lab or a Greyhound, but that's about it other than their cockerpoo friend.

Most of the GSDs near me are on-lead walked as well, but having spoken to the owners when our dogs have greeted each other it's clearly for their dogs safety more than anything else - because they know if a dog attacks theirs and their dog reacts, it'll be their dog that is the 'bad dog.' Which is such a shame.

@SpanielsGalore 😂thought she'd grown testicles. It's great isn't it how when one finally comes out of season the others go into season? It's like a never ending cycle.

I got a call from my local breed club secretary late last night - an urgent re-home is needed for a young Goldie. The family are absolutely refusing to keep her any longer than a few more day. So I guess I, along with lots of others, will be spending today desperately trying to find the poor thing a foster home asap. I hate that this happens so often (literally every few weeks) and it's always young dogs. Trying to find a foster home at such short notice, and someone who is prepared to take the chance with a dog with a bite history, is so damn difficult. I always look at my rabble and wish I could help - but adding an unknown quantity to such a closenit group, who are all related, would be a recipe for disaster. 🙁

We went up the moor so I didn't have to worry whether people were looking at me. It was a cool breezy 14 degrees when we left here and a sunny18 by the time we got back. She did okay in the car and the new harness really helps.

Surprisingly busy for 9am, a lot of runners and quite a few dog walkers. We exchanged a few greetings of hello/good morning and a chap with two snapping JR's on leads did an eyeroll and said "sorry" to us. Brie just ignored them and a yapping Cavalier, though she had wanted to greet the very well trained off-lead Cocker that we passed earlier. She loves spaniels so I suspect she would actually fit in surprisingly well with all the thread dogs, despite her size. At heart she's a beagle crossed with a Maine Coon.

@LandSharksAnonymous
That's very sad about the young GR in rescue. I hope someone is able to find her a good foster home.

@LandSharksAnonymous That's so sad about the goldie. Is she in Scotland? 🙈 It would depend on the reason for the bite for me. A lot are the owner's fault, rather than the dogs. My sprocker was thrown out of his second home for biting. In reality, he was fighting with the other resident dog and the owner got bitten trying to split them up. Ironically of all my dogs, he is/was the one I would be most certain wouldn't bite. He went through so much with vet visits and treatments and he never once so much as growled.

And yes with regard seasons. I'm waiting for K to start next. 😫

@Aubrielle Glad you've had a lovely walk this morning.

@Aubrielle I think Cockers are just a breed that every other breed seems to like? To be honest I don't think I know a person that dislikes Cockers either. Brie is such a good girl for ignoring them. Mine do the same. Occasionally Hen will look at them in a way that just screams she is judging them - if a dog was capable of judging! So glad you had a good walk though. There's something about a nice walk, where people greet each other and are just happy and there's no dogs causing issues, that is just incredibly relaxing.

@SpanielsGalore - sadly it's a tale as old as time! Toddler in the household was bitten but there was no bleeding, apparently. As always, the owners were apparently cagy about what happened (which, as the club Secretary said...tells us all we need to know). Let's be honest...if a Goldie wanted to cause damage, they really could so the fact it was a toddler but no bleeding says a lot about the dogs restraint! Honestly, I am just really glad that the owner contacted the breed club rather than having the dog PTS - too many times are dogs labelled dangerous when, actually, they are reacting to something that should never have happened. But she is not in Scotland (or even close)!

It's horrible about your Sprocker, but at least he found you! And, as you say, so often it is the owners fault.

Satan was rehomed after biting a child in the family (although from the way she acted when DMum first took her on and the write up Spaniel Aid had about her and from what the fosterer said, as awful as it sounds, I am pretty sure the child more than deserved it - to say it was a less than suitable environment for a dog would be putting it mildly). She's never shown any sign of aggression. Fear, yes, but not aggression. She's a bossy little madam, but in the six years DMum has had her...not so much as a growl at anyone or anything.

I think we'll find her somewhere. We've found foster homes for more 'problemed' dogs at shorter notice. It's just a bad time of year what with school holidays etc.

@LandSharksAnonymous ah I hope you find somewhere for her, poor thing! There’s always context to a bite surely. Dogs only have a few ways to communicate with us that they’re not enjoying something ☹️

Also wanted to add I’ve another dog here that absolutely loves Spaniels 😊 there’s a guy around here that walks his 4 year old sprocker and 18 month old WCS and I adore them both. The sprocker is so chill and she just stands there looking at you waiting for some fuss and the WCS is just so excited by everything - she loves Pabs and he loves her. They’re very cute together. Two very different energy dogs but both so lovely in temperament.

In my extremely biased view, a well-bred, well-trained, nicely socialised spaniel that isn’t nervous, like pupsy, can be a brilliant influence on a lot of dogs. They are generally so happy and easygoing – a lady local to us calls pupsy ‘the bendy bus’ because of how wiggly she is. It’s not just a tail wag but vibrates across her whole body.

Pupsy’s favourite dogs to play with range from a JRT to a Bernese Mountain Dog and she’s just the same with both of them. The lady who runs her nursery describes her as ‘a confidence-giving dog’ which is such a compliment to both of us. One of nursery’s dog walkers walks a very anxious goldie of about pupsy’s age whose anxiety manifests by him being very dominant and humpy. But somehow he never does it with her and they play beautifully. It’s like she gives him a sign not to, somehow saying ‘it’s OK, you don’t need to do that’. I couldn’t imagine having any other breed ever. Truly they are your go everywhere, do everything dog plus they’re portable. You know you want to, @LandSharksAnonymous...

Very jealous of people going on proper walks. We went to the garden centre this morning to sniff around the carpark and then the plant areas outside for her allotted ten minutes (which turned into 17). Utterly miserable.

@brushingboots What a lovely thing for someone to say about Pupsy. 💖 Really hope you are allowed to go for a proper walk soon.

@LandSharksAnonymous My friend rehomed a cocker with bite history. In both his previous two homes, it sounds like the children were allowed to torment him until he reacted. The second family got rid of him when he bit a child who had poked him in the eye. He is such a softie. I honestly despair of people at times.
I always find it amusing when people say a dog snapped and would have bitten if they hadn't moved so fast. No, love. If the dog had wanted to bite you, it would have done.

@VanGoSunflowers There is always context to a bite. But some are easier to deal with than others. Getting bitten trying to break up a fight isn't really a bite in my book. It's getting caught in the crossfire. A dog biting because it's being mistreated - don't mistreat it. But a dog with resource guarding issues, who will bite anyone who walks past as they are seen as a threat, is more unpredictable and harder to manage.

@VanGoSunflowers agree with @SpanielsGalore - there is 100% always context. It might not be context that you like, but it's there. Sadly, most of the Goldies who are relinquished to the local breed club are owned by people with very young children...and it's almost always the child who has been bitten. And, as Spaniels says, so often people say 'I only just got there is time' and (just like Spaniels) I think...No, your dog didn't want to hurt you. If they want to, they would have.

@SpanielsGalore if I had a £ for every time a dog was rehomed because a child tormented it, or the owner was at fault, I'd be a millionaire.

@brushingboots what a lovely compliment about pupsy! I have to 100% agree with this statement 'they are generally so happy and easygoing.' It's so true. And they're small, which other dogs seem to like. Goldies are so similar in personality, but their size puts people and other dogs off. Honestly, I do really love Cockers. Never met one I wouldn't snap up in a heart beat if their owner let me!

How is pupsy doing? And how are you? Really feel for both you and pupsy!

Messing about with a gigantic bunch of broccoli, wanted to do a joke bouquet photo because a friend is getting married next month. However, someone got their head in the way 🙄

@Aubrielle And what a beautiful head it is too. 💖

Thank you 😊 She has a surprisingly elegant profile for such a big dog, really.

@Aubrielle stunning ❤️

@LandSharksAnonymous it seems wild to me that dogs would be rehomed in such circumstances! Do you ever think it’s a bit of an excuse sometimes and owners don’t want to admit they’ve bitten off more than they can chew?? It seems totally obvious to me in all my encounters with dogs (and I’ve been around them a lot even before I got Pablo) when they’re enjoying something vs just putting up with it vs actively hating it.

@brushingboots is it tomorrow you and Pupsy are back at the vets? I hope you get good news!!

@SpanielsGalore agree that getting caught in a crossfire isn’t a ‘proper’ bite. The only bite Pablo delivered upon me that actually hurt was when he was going for a toy that was in my hand and missed. Not the same as breaking up a dog fight obviously but still. Context and intention!

@VanGoSunflowers I think some people do just discard their dogs because it's not quite what they hoped for, or the dog doesn't live up to expectations.

I find it happens a lot with Goldies because people expect a lovable, easily trainable, social, family pet. And they are. But they are also hard work. People see well trained dogs walking down the street, or on youtube, and they don't realise how much time, effort and energy goes into it. And they forget dogs are not toys.

As you say, it is so obvious when you look at so many dogs that they are not happy. They get a bit stiff, or they lick their lips, or their ears go back, or they grumble, or they expose their teeth - that anyone who pushes a dog, or allows a dog to be pushed to the point where it snaps (having shown no previous aggression) is entirely at fault. People never really accept responsibility though.

Happens a lot with PMD also @LandSharksAnonymous , despite low registrations. The cute puppy factor is their downfall and social media does large breed dogs no favours. People get them without even realising it's a guarding breed. It's even worse since the rise of the designer crossbreed, Pyriedoodles are being bred to order and, frankly, it's a dangerous and unpredictable mix to cross a low prey drive guard with a high prey drive high energy dog.

Most PMD that end up in rescue are 9 months to 2 years, so bang on adolescence, when the teddy bear pup has turned into a fully grown wolf. More or less. It's all too easy to make a LGD aggressive, they need careful handling. We're glad breed numbers are low, truth be told. If you look at "new" breeds being brought in from Eastern Europe, it's bad. The situation with Caucasians is terrifying. And, even as an LGD devotee, it is a breed that puts fear into me, because of what my partner experienced at the World Dog Show in Finland.

We've had home checks and lifestyle questionnaires with our pups, which is how it should be. Even after so long in the breed I'm not offended by requests for written references; if a breeder made it too easy it would be a red flag. You know this better than anybody.

The number of comments that appear on MN by people who regret getting a dog, find it too tying, a liability, will never get another etc is truly shocking. It just shows how many people just buy a puppy on a whim, as if it's a toy and never form any sort of attachment to it. It's heartbreaking to realise there are so many unloved dogs.

edited for typo

@Aubrielle 100% agree! It is really worrying. It requires a particular sort of person, with the right temperament, to own a lifestock guardian breed. I certainly could never do it - I am completely ill-equipped. Social media has a lot to answer for. I do sometimes wonder if we need better regulations over who can buy dogs, but I don't think there's a workable way to do it. It would require too much time and man-power.

Slightly separate point... but along the lines of the Finland incident you mentioned, I was pretty disgusted at Crufts this year. The Tibetan Mastiff that came second should never have even been in the group stages, let alone the final. It couldn't even be handled properly by the judge. I've gone to Crufts for years and I have never seen a dog with aggression issues that severe before.

No dog with that sort of temperament should be shown, and it certainly should not be winning or runner up in any category! The fact that they didn't just put it into the final - above far superior examples of other breeds in the 'Working' class - but made it runner-up was pretty disgraceful. All the breeders nearby were doing their best to keep their dogs away from it. And it snarled at Clare Balding when she walked past and she didn't even look at it. Yet, people will look at it - and see it did well at Crufts - and think 'that's a breed I want.'

I am a firm believer that all dog breeds should be shown at crufts, but I think they should describe the dogs characteristics in detail - particularly those that enter the final so that when people think 'oh isn't X breed nice,' they actually realise what that breed is really like. Not just the dog trotting around the ring.