Our Cosmic Autumn Rebellion (Adolescent Support Group)

[MonCoubousMonTourmalet]

Okay folks, let's head into late summer/autumn.

You're not soft, @DislocatedShoulder - or if you are, you're not the only one; I can barely bear to leave my lad overnight at his daycare that he loves. My boy Nobhead Bill is a horror on the lead a lot of the time (he's half WCS). If I attach the front clip on the harness he manages to twist the harness completely around himself. I think @Nella68 has the best advice but god it's tedious, especially when you're trying to get somewhere.

Bill can actually walk beautifully on a loose lead, so long as it's on the way home from somewhere, and I'm rewarding him at intervals (turkey paté in tubes is very handy for this). Honestly, the little bollocks trots like a show pony. But an icy hill on the way to a morning walk? WOO HOO IT'S SHOW TIME he says as he hurls himself down it at full pelt. I have considered skis.

I've promised myself I'll spend a chunk of the Christmas break studying up on this like the massive nerd I am - I'll post here if I find anything likely and I'll try it out for your entertainment too x

@DislocatedShoulder I wouldn't send mine to residential training, as I wouldn't trust them not to use aversive methods. I've seen what they call 'a gentle pop' on the lead. And if they'd done it my dog, I've have fucking decked them.

One last thought - I used a lead that clipped around my waist when my sprocker was at his worst. It didn't stop him pulling, but it's easier to manage. Something to do with balance and centre of gravity. And it saves getting a dislocated shoulder. 😁

@Bupster that made me smile. It’s an extreme sport isn’t it?

@SpanielsGalore Is the waist lead easier? It’s something I’ve wondered about, but was worried that we’d get pulled over, my partner in particular. Are you still steady on your feet and do you hold it or not use your hands at all?
It would save the shoulder 🤣

Hi @DislocatedShoulder

Sorry you're struggling with a pulling dog, I sympathise.
I see you've been offered loads of advice already, so what I say may not be relevant, but I've recently cracked loose lead walking after months of struggling with an adolescent bitch pulling me off my feet and I can now enjoy leisurely walks with a non pulling dog.

Possibly it counts for nought here, as mine isn't a gundog breed, but anyhow I'll offer my two penn'orth on lead training if nobody minds.

This time last year I called in a trainer because I was finding my girl impossible to walk, she was pulling me all over the place and I was in despair of her ever walking nicely. The trainer wanted me to put her in a figure of 8 headcollar but I wasn't willing. He was averse to the idea of a harness on the grounds of her being too strong. After three sessions nothing was working, so I ditched the trainer and went right back to basics, using vocal commands instead of food. She was 9 months at that point.

I decided to try a harness, although my partner was against the idea. He was walking her on a conventional collar and lead but I was struggling to control her on it. I'm not very big so I thought that a harness would at least give me something to hang onto and stop her pulling me over. So I bought an Ezydog harness. It was all trial and error and weeks of frustration but slowly she started to respond more to physical and verbal correction. Then she grew out of the harness so I had to look for a bigger one... A Haqihana hound harness has turned out to be the answer to all my prayers. The lead attachment is on the top of the back and I'm using it with an EzyDog Checkmate martingale collar with an 8 foot double ended training lead attached to both.

I did try a belt attachment but it gave me severe back pain. That's not to say it won't work for you though. It can depend on the strength of your dog.

Initially I was grabbing onto the back strap of the harness to stop her pulling, but we persevered and within a few weeks of getting used to this combination she was loose lead walking nicely, pulling a lot less and being less nervous on pavement walks. I have her positioned with her shoulder level with my hip, her head slightly in front of me, because this feels like the most natural position for me.

It isn't easy training loose lead, it needs a lot of perseverance but I honestly thought she would never stop pulling and I was reaching the point where I was scared to walk her by myself. She is now unrecognisable from the dog I was walking at the start of the year and I'm really proud of how far we've come.

It can be done. It takes patience but once you find the right set up for your dog, it makes a massive difference.

.

@DislocatedShoulder does he pull towards anything in particular? For example because he has seen another dog or is it just all time?

I don’t have as much experience as the others that have replied - but I had a difficult one with my Lab pulling. He’s quite heavy for his age (24kgs now at 8 months) and I had a period a while ago of months of a very sore left arm!

He has massively improved recently (although this could go out the window when he is older!) but it sounds like a lot of the things you’ve tried I have also tried. The main one for me was teaching him to walk to heel off lead for some reason. He is VERY food motivated though so that helps (cheese cubes work wonders!) And the other one has been getting him to sit and wait while other dogs pass us as that was when he was at his worse! It used to be like wrestling a kangaroo and I was always in so much pain 😂
He doesn’t walk perfectly, he kind of shuffles forward and back but I am more than ok with that as my arm no longer feels like it’s going to drop off 😂

Tried a slip lead once, made no difference so discarded it after about two walks. Walking in the opposite direction did nothing, neither did stopping. Clipping the lead to the front of his harness did help a bit. But it seemed trying to manage his impulse control was the most effective. This may not be helpful to you but I’m sure things will get much better at some point and you have my sympathy!

Thanks @VanGoSunflowers he doesn’t pull towards anything, that’s the bizarre thing. He just wants to get ‘there’ wherever there is. He’s not particularly food oriented and he’s not interested in other dogs or people, just in getting to wherever his single brain cell is telling him to.
If we change direction he instantly does it until we go dizzy. The stopping thing is what we’re being consistent with now and he comes straight back into position, but two steps and he’s off again.
I’m now counting the days until two and a half when everything is going to miraculously click into place - or a bit sooner would be lovely!

@DislocatedShoulder I might be talking out of my arse but I think with mine, rather than it just being a simple ‘heel’ command when he was off lead, I released him at the end of it. So it went ‘here, heel, break’ (with treats of course!) almost like I was making the decision for him as to when he could go and do his own thing. I only do very short bursts of it because I want him to go and do his own thing on walks for the most part, but I do it several times each walk. Maybe there’s something in the ‘I will get to do what I want eventually, I just need to do this for now’ that clicked in his little lab brain because that’s when he started walking better on the lead 🤷‍♀️

It's easier in that any sudden jerks don't yank you to one side. I used a long lead that had several D rings on it and just clipped it round my waist. Sometimes I held the lead as well, but usually not.
It didn't stop him pulling, but made it more manageable for me. I'm only a tad over 5 foot tall. At least I hope I am. My last medical said I was shrinking, but it was in cms so who knows?! 😭 😂

Having just come back from another walk where I’ve been pulled alll over the place, I feel your pain @DislocatedShoulder. I’m going to try some harnesses as I do worry about his neck, he just pulls so hard as as you say, he’s trying to get somewhere, even though it’s not entirely clear where that is

@VanGoSunflowers you might have something there! I’ve never actually released him from heel position when he’s off lead, I’m definitely going to try that from now on!
@SpanielsGalore I seem to grow an inch or lose an inch every time I go to the doctor 🤣

I have a walking belt as well, forgot to mention it - expensive but probably one of my best ever purchases. Yes, he's had me over with it, but my permanently injured arm and shoulder have finally healed and it's so handy to actually have hands if you see what I mean. You can still grab hold of the lead, it just gives you a bit more breathing space.

Apologies as due to external reasons I've been absent , and I've barely caught up with this but had an email about activity, and then saw waist belt.

Waist belts are fine for canix or any kind of controlled exercise with a dog that is trained. To use a waist belt as a form to control the dog is a lesson in injury. Never choose to put yourself in a situation where you can get hurt.

I also don't do harnesses, again smaller dogs can get away with it but it masks the issue, and the dog will at some point realise that it isn't constrained by the harness

Flat collar and an effective trainer.

I got a lot more hurt before the belt, trying to hang on to a 25kg dog heading at top speed in another direction because there were swoopy birds. And putting a dog that pulls in a collar purely to stop it pulling is to my mind a shitty thing to do to a dog - their throats are more sensitive than ours, not less, and I want to be able to walk my boy on a long line, as otherwise he has very little freedom to be a dog, and I'm sure as hell not doing that on a collar.

Yes I'm with @Bupster . My dogs don't wear collars at all any more. Their ID tags are attached to their harnesses. Research has shown that even the slightest pull on a flat collar can cause damage to a dog's neck and throat.
And even if my spaniels were trained to walk perfectly on a loose lead, I still wouldn't risk it. It only takes one pesky little squirrel/bird/rabbit/deer to cross their path and they've forgotten the lead exists.

@Bupster The amount of twats I see with extendable leads attached to collars is astounding!

I'm not saying I am right or you are wrong, I believe we should all be allowed our opinions and methods.

I genuinely believe that the vast majority, and definitely the whole majority of people that post on threads like this, want the best for their dog.

And that there are different routes to the same place.

As I said, I have only had big dogs, quite possibly with a 25kg dog a belt could help. But I would still train for a flat collar.

@SpanielsGalore I do not agree with extending leashes either

I have used one for an elderly, deaf dog so he had more freedom to roam. But it was in a private (not enclosed) field.
Anywhere more public, I'd use a trailing long line nowadays.

People who use them at full extent on pavements along side roads are idiots.

I regularly meet a man in the woods walking two French bulldogs on flat collars and extendable leads. As if they don't have enough trouble breathing as it is.

I would have agreed about collars/harnesses until recently @IchLiebeDeutscheSchaferhunde We've always done half check collars with the previous dogs but with this one I've had more success using a martingale collar, hound harness and double ended lead. I will be sticking with that. She is approx 55kg and 30" at the shoulder. She now walks with a loose lead whether on harness for me or just collar for my partner.

For me, the lead on my waist belt felt too dangerous and it gave me back ache but I do have scoliosis and a lateral pelvic tilt so I don't think that helped. I did feel that she would pull me over so I won't use that technique again.

I do think it's a different ball game with Brie, though, @Aubrielle - not sure I'd risk a waist belt when walking a Shetland pony either! And I probably wouldn't need one if Bill was all spaniel rather than having the nose of a WCS and the strength of a working Lab.

Just popped in to report to @DislocatedShoulder that the method recommended by @Nella68 and other very good trainers, of steadying the dog before it gets to the end of the lead, and changing direction when it does, actually seems to work when you do it consistently rather than letting yourself be dragged around because it's 6:30am and you've only had one cup of coffee. I am FURIOUS 😄

Obviously it's very early days but I'll carry on with this and report back. Still haven't worked out what to do for the first 100m of the first walk when he's desperate for a poo and it seems very unfair to slow him down!

Hi @Bupster thanks for popping back. I tried a few of the methods kindly suggested this morning, and as suggested by @Nella68 dug my double ended lead out of my box of random unused leads. I’m definitely going to stick with that for a while. I’m really not quick enough to turn before he pulls, but he does respond quite well to that when I can manage it.
I’m so grateful for all the help and advice everyone kindly gave, the only thing I was unsure about was a martingale collar, too close to a choke chain for my liking.
The only advice I can give for early morning walks is to try and have two cups of coffee and be prepared to jog to the first poo 🤣.

@Bupster glad it seems to be working but I know what you mean about the poo sprint!

@DislocatedShoulder For me the double ended lead is the best thing. I feel like I have so much more control. I have to think one step ahead of my pup so If we go on the same routes, I know where he’ll want to pull over to sniff. I’ll do an about turn just before he’s about to pull and keep doing them until he’s lost interest in that smell or I give permission. It’s very tedious but worth it in the end.

Yesterday I went for a walk delivering Christmas cards so I was out for about half an hour, all on pavement. I was so pleased that M didn’t pull once. I thought I would try some speeding up, slowing down and turning around. He stayed in the close position all the time. I thought finally all the hours of pavement walking are paying off. We then met a friend and he blotted his copybook by jumping up. The rotter.

@Nella68 I’m going to keep trying what you suggest, it’ll keep me on my toes (and hopefully not flat on my back) if nothing else!
Can I ask what double ended lead you use? Mine has a handle that slides up and down the lead which I like, but the clips are really big and heavy.

This is the lead I have
Deal: HALTI Training Lead - Professional No-Pull Double-Ended Dog Lead, Lightweight, Soft & Durable, Ideal for Obedience Training & Everyday Walks with Dogs and Puppies (Size Large, Black, 2m) https://amzn.eu/d/3FwNkR4

I do like the look of this lead with extra bits to hold
HALTI Control Lead - Professional Dog Lead to Stop Pulling, Perfect for Puppy Walks, Easy to Use Double-Ended Dog Training Leash with 2 Handles (Size Large, Black, 2m) https://amzn.eu/d/45gCxZ4

@Nella68 that’s great, thank you!