Our Cosmic Autumn Rebellion (Adolescent Support Group)

[MonCoubousMonTourmalet]

Okay folks, let's head into late summer/autumn.

If Vinny has had a really good bomb about in the woods, he will sometimes lay on the ground panting and refuse to move. It doesn’t happen every time but maybe half the time. He has a lot of energy but I think he overdoes it sometimes because he just wants to keep going and going and then crashes out. I don’t know if this is similar to what K does or not? Here’s a picture of him doing it. He won’t even take a treat which is very unusual because he’s food obsessed.

Quiet time spent nest building sounds good @Bupster
So did the behaviourists conclude that overstimulation is part of Bill's issue?
And is it a long term plan or can he go back to his friendship groups?
Sorry for questions but I'm just curious as to how proper, experienced behaviourists determine the best options for a particular character, particularly one as complex as Bill seems to be.

If pupsy was doing that I’d be getting her checked, @SpanielsGalore. Doesn’t sound normal to refuse to move and needing to be carried when she's as fit as she is. Sometimes pupsy will have a lie down if she’s done some particularly knackering illicit hare chasing but it’s clear that she’s just temporarily resting and I just wait with her. She’s never refused to go further before.

Yes, that sounds like Kira. She runs non stop and then lies down. We were out a bit longer than expected and it turned very warm, which didn't help. Today she looked like a mini Vinny. 💖 She found a nice patch of long cool grass, rolled in it a bit and then just lay there. We have done longer walks and it hasn't happened. But then it probably wasn't as warm.
I think the last episode was an adrenaline spike though, as we'd only been out a short time and she was very different. This was more a normal panting, IYKWIM.

@Bupster She may well want picking up. 😂 She certainly didn't complain when I carried her. Was quite happy watching the world go by from her higher perch.
Bless Bill only moving when he's offered steak. These dogs have us wrapped around their little paws.
My vets was taken over by the big corporation. They closed our OOH and shifted it 60 odd miles away.

@Aubrielle That photo is hilarious. 😂😂

@brushingboots How long do you have to wait? I've only waited a minute or two before picking her up. Today I carried her for 5 minutes (at a guess) and then she walked the last 100 yards back to the car. The previous two occasions I carried her all the way and she practically collapsed on the seat when I put her inside.

@Flowerfusion sorry I meant 8 months - my typing when walking is less than stellar. Tbh it's pretty much usually! Spaniels' is right though, please don't be afraid to advocate for her. You are the only one who can. I really hope it is fixed/you find out what's going on soon though, it's horrible for you and for her.

@Aubrielle Disagree away! I find it incredible yours haven't knocked one down! Twatdog has routinely taken out stairgates. He and Pen managed to pull one down in the last holiday cottage I stay in with both of them (the bill I was sent...well, let's just say that I now let the dogs upstairs with me and ignore any rules saying 'stairgates are there to stop dogs going upstairs, please use them.' 😃But Goldies are clingy and perhaps I am such an amazing dog mother they couldn't bare to be parted from me?!

'Snark Sisters' has a nice ring 😂

@SpanielsGalore that does sound rally worrying with K. Do you think she maybe just gets too overstimulated? I would perhaps be minded to have her on a long-line for a while to try and stop her over-doing it? That way if she can walk for 90 minutes without getting into that state you have a better idea of whether it is stamina or whether it's something more concerning? But also perhaps see a vet - I know you don't trust them, but it does sound a bit worrying!

When I got to the station last night, Twatdog launched himself out of DMums car before she had even opened the boot fully. Little git nearly assassinated me. At least everyone else pouring out into the station carpark found it cute, because I definitely didn't. Slobber, fur and dog smell all over me whilst I stumbled backwards. (Secretly, I of course loved it).

@Bupster @Aubrielle @YorkshireFelix Bill, Brie and Vinny are looking glorious, as always.

I suppose @LandSharksAnonymous it depends on the gate. A normal 28" high baby gate won't realistically stop anything larger than a Bichon, but a 43" tall heavy duty dog gate can be pretty robust if it's tightly fixed in. The double one on our French doors is actually screwed to plates on the wall and it's brilliant because I can have the door open all summer but still keep Brie & cats in when I need to. The ones on the kitchen doors just fit in the frame but can actually withstand an adult PMD standing up against them, with paws on the top, without the gate moving a millimetre.

Awww your sweet Twatdog ❤ It's an amazing bond when you have an animal soulmate. I had that with both Merlin & Algy and with my blue cat, Perttu. Always the boys for me, although I do love Brie because she's such a character.

Following on from our alternative breed ruminations, I'm rather drawn to a Smooth Collie, because I feel that it has to be another pastoral breed. I broached the subject with my partner last night and his response was "if we get another dog it'll be a Pyrie". So, might be a long wait (though tbf, would be for a Smooth Collie also given its status as an at risk breed) but at least I feel there is a possibility of a companion for Brie 😊

We completed our beginner gundog course! I know I disliked it at the start (probably more because Vinny was being a twat) but I did actually really enjoy it by the end. He has improved a boat load since that first class and I feel like I’ve got the tools to build some good foundations for him. We even introduced a hunt whistle yesterday, which I didn’t know was a thing, and he picked it up straight away. Going to book a monthly 1-1 going forwards to keep us on track.

Here is my out-take of trying to wrangle V for a nice photo with our certificate. Zoom in to see his supermodel pose 😄

Ooh, what's a hunt whistle, @YorkshireFelix ? And congratulations!!

Well done @YorkshireFelix and Vinny!

@LandSharksAnonymous Awwwww. Twatdog missed his Mummy. 💖That's so sweet. Must have been so strange for him after you've barely left the house for months.
I don't know about K. We've been out for longer and she's been fine. My problem with taking her to the vets is I'll say "She sometimes gets knackered on walks, lies down and refuses to move." They'll say "She looks fine to me. Stop walking her for so long. That will be £50." I'll do shorter walks for a while and see how she gets on. I think. Or I'll phone and speak to someone. 🤔
Someone was well viscious to you last night! Don't quite know what rattled their cage.

@YorkshireFelix Congratulations to you and Vinny. 🏅 I'm glad you enjoyed it in the end.

First morning of the stair gate across the living room - and it felt like a calmer start to the day and I obviously was less on high alert watching her and the interactions with the kids.

Question - barking at the new boundary. I was going with ignore the barks and reward the silence with a 'good girl'. I've also got some snuffle toys in the hallway as well as her cool mat which she likes to lie on. Any other tips/thoughts?

We are very rarely all in the living room - but she does have a bed in the living room which it blocks access to.

When the kids are at school and asleep I was going to give free access to the living room...

I was also thinking perhaps a play pen around her bed in the living room so if she wants she can be in there whilst we are moving around between rooms and she can just chill?

LOVING all the doggy photos! What a happy bunch!

So you basically blow your whistle in a ‘twit twoo’ type noise repeatedly when they are in the right area for whatever they are hunting for. And you stop when they move away. So an indicator that they are getting ‘hotter’ (like the game I assume everyone used to play as kids 😄).

The way you teach the association is sit them up somewhere with a bit of longer grass, then put something they love like a ball, toy or dummy behind them slightly hidden (but they will know it’s there as they have watched you put it down) then you make the hunt whistle noise and they will naturally go and retrieve the object because they know it’s there. Lots of praise then do it again! Our trainer said make sure you look where the object is rather than directly at your dog when you blow the whistle, because it’s likely they won’t move from the sit if you’re looking at them.

I’ll copy and paste what she emailed me below as it might explain better:

Hunt Whistle
You can begin to introduce a hunt whistle on your retrieves. This is used when your dog is in the right area to find a retrieve. It is a way of encouraging your dog to "hold an area" aka to continue looking in that area for the dummy. The sound is usually a "twit-twoo" sound, like an owl. One sharper pip followed by a longer soft blow. This sound is repeated whilst the dog is in the correct area, and stopped when they leave the area.

Exercise: throw a marked retrieve into some longer grass. Send your dog and when they get to the area that the dummy fell, begin blowing your hunt whistle. Stop blowing it if they move out of the area or they find the dummy.

@Flowerfusion Glad you have had a calmer start to the day. It's probably because you aren't worrying about having to keep an eye on the dog's interactions with the children.
When I set up a 'safe space' for my reactive dog, I fed him and gave him longer lasting chews in that space to make him associate it with good things.
Does she have a water bowl in the hallway? I'm sure she has, but I'll mention it just in case.
I think ignoring the barking and rewarding quiet is a good plan. Also allowing her to free roam when the children aren't around and the house is quieter/calmer.
The living room situation depends on the set up of your house for me. If you are all sat down in the evening watching TV, then I would have her in the living room and fence off her bed area, so everyone can relax. Not sure about whilst you are all moving around though. If the living room is a through room, then I wouldn't put her in there whilst there is a lot of milling around. She might find it stressful and not be able to relax. If it's a quiet room off to one side, then I would. But I assume you picked the hallway, because that is the quiet space in your house.
I use a fire guard to pen off dog beds. A long one that goes all round the hearth. It has a gate in it so I can let the dogs in and out. We bought it off FB market.

The gate sounds like a positive thing @Flowerfusion . My instincts would be the same as yours - to ignore barking but reward silence. And probably only allow access to go through when she's being calm. But I'm far from being a training expert. We use gates instead of crating so our pups are used to gates from the start.

With regard to a playpen - we have one of the modular metal ones from Amazon and we use it as a room divider. I know a lot of people with small breeds put the open crate or a bed inside the playpen, so it definitely can be a useful way to stop a pup from flinging itself around and teaching it to settle. But as I said, it can later be opened out to make a barrier or fence, so it is a good investment.

I would give two warnings about a playpen; on the metal panelled ones we found the lock was quite sharp and at puppy eye level, so watch for that. Also get a taller playpen than you think you need, we originally ordered the 80cm but ended up needing 100cm. Obviously you won't need the 100, but if you're unsure about a 60cm it may be safer to opt for 80.

@SpanielsGalore To try and explain the set up a little better, we have added the stairgate to the living room which means when she isn't in the living room she has full access to the utility room (which is where she sleeps at night and has her water bowl), the kitchen, the hallway and the dining room.

The hallway is the connecting space between the kitchen/utility, living room and dining room, but she has always picked lying down in the hallway...probably because the living room is the noisiest room. So, if the kids are in the living room during the day, she will tend to be in the hallway.

So the hall isn't quiet, but she does still have all the other rooms to use. If I'm cooking in the kitchen she'll often be lie near my feet.

But I would like her to have a calm space in the living room where she can go to, if everyone else is also calm in the living room. At the moment, any sort of excitement from the kids leads to an air snap at their hands so it's a bit risky.

@Aubrielle Thank you for the warnings on the play pen! Yes, I think having access to the living room whilst she and everyone else is calm is the key thing.

What i've essentially done is trapped the kids in the living room as neither of them can open the stair gate!

Which is one solution I suppose 😂

I'm sure you'll figure out what is going to work best for your layout. Our house has a lot of doors, which is a pain, hence us needing 5 gates.

😂
I am so sorry. I completely misunderstood. I thought you had restricted the dog to the hallway as her safe space. Whereas you are keeping her out of the danger zone.
I would definitely try barricading off her bed in the living room then, so she can join you when you are all in there. If she finds it stressful and is unable to settle, then leave her in the hallway until the children are not around.
This is what I use as a barrier. But I got it for about £30 off FB market. https://www.amazon.co.uk/VOUNOT-Hearth-Barrier-Foldable-Mounting/dp/B0CLV3D7DH/ref=sr124?

We have the same guard around our French door @SpanielsGalore , it means the door can be open all summer but we're still able to restrict dogs and cats when we need to. Really useful thing.

@Aubrielle agree - depends on the gate! I think most people (excluding us) are probably referring to the little ones when they talk about keeping dogs out!

I do love all my dogs, but there is just something about his royal wankiness that makes him special (possibly his complete lack of braincells and how snuggly he is). Are you going to try and get yourself on a wait-list for puppies or just wait for a litter to become available?

@SpanielsGalore he's a bit of a loser (a very sweet one though)! Apparently Eris was completely unbothered by my absence, which I guess says a lot about how she feels about me - she pinned all day for DDs when they went back to school...

Let us know how you get on with her? I know what you mean about the vets though - it's like if they can't see it right in that moment, it can't possibly exist!

Oh I know. I know who the poster is as well - they did a name-change. They're a bid fan of over-breeding dogs and just being dramatic for no reason (the second part of which is rather ironic coming from me...).

@Flowerfusion You're right on ignoring the barking but rewarding silence! I agree with others re. a possible playpen - I have the same one Spaniel's does. Does she like a crate at all? Some dogs do like having 'a den' of sorts.

@YorkshireFelix congrats! I know I say it all the time, but Vinny is absolutely stunning.

I do think if I ever turned my back on Goldies that I'd be picking up a little cocker spaniel (and praying it was more like Vinny/Spaniel's bunch than like Satan).

Honestly not sure regarding pups @LandSharksAnonymous , the breeders of our previous dogs have all more or less stopped breeding, or only have a litter once in a blue moon. We also favour European lines, although a lot of the UK dogs do have French behind them, so that shouldn't be a big problem.
I'm not pressuring my partner too much over it, he was devastated by the loss of our previous male and still feels afraid of making unfair comparisons because he was just our perfect dog. But at least we have agreed that it's a PMD or nothing.
I might send a couple of emails in the coming weeks with a view to seeing if anyone has any plans for a litter next spring or summer.

@LandSharksAnonymous Aw that is nice thank you. I never really wanted a black spaniel but he has grown on me 😂

@Bupster sorry I missed your post about sitting and doing nothing. I think we need to do more of that too, although I think V has settled down a bit recently and hasn’t been chasing as many birds etc! Bill makes me laugh so much. He is such a character.

I am very much enjoying walks at the minute. V has been fantastic off lead recently, the weather has been nice and we’ve barely seen a soul since the school holidays have ended. I’ve started going a slightly longer route for a change and my part of Yorkshire looked glorious today. And we saw a heron!

@YorkshireFelix what a star! I would be a bit nervous walking M off lead by a canal. He’s suddenly decided he likes water, after being suspicious of it for a long time. I think he would be in and then I would struggle to get him out.

@YorkshireFelix That looks like a lovely place to walk. Glad you've been enjoying your walks and Vinny has been behaving himself.
Funny you say you didn't want a black spaniel. I didn't either. I wanted K's liver brother. I wouldn't be without her now though.

Our walk was a bit mixed. K did a lot of running in the first half hour and began to look a bit wobbly. (Or it was my overactive imagination.) So we found a patch of ferns and they searched those for mice for five minutes or so.
Then the typhoons started flying low overhead, which ruined the walk for P. It's dustbin day, so she'd already had a stressful morning. So we gave up and came home.
We'll go down the seafront later and try again.
I think I'm going to monitor K for a week and perhaps see if I can speak to the vet who believed me about the blades of grass. She seemed sensible.