Our Cosmic Autumn Rebellion (Adolescent Support Group)

[MonCoubousMonTourmalet]

Okay folks, let's head into late summer/autumn.

@Aubrielle I’d keep her on a bit longer then! At least until 24 months given she seems to be flourishing so much. She’s such a bay still - it’s so easy to forget how young they all are!

Bless your dogs for being so sweet though. They really sound quite perfect - sound the alarm if they need to, but friendly out and about. It’s lovely that you’ve got locals who know she’s nice and will let their dogs say hi. A win/win all around.

Clem is the only one of mine who has ever grumbled at a dog, but I am convinced she was meant to be born a cat - I’ve never met a more anti social golden retriever. She actively swerves around other dogs and doesn’t like people patting her. Sometimes if people try she’ll go behind me to avoid them. To be honest I often think that she is the perfect dog for me - antisocial and miserable 😂

Just thought I'd quickly update as we have seen the behaviouralist. She's showing signs of anxiety (lip licking, yawning) and conflict - so she'll go and sit on me but then show these signs. I can't see them in this sort of scenario as she's often face away, bum into me, if that makes sense. She didn't want to be touched by her - very wary of her hands.

She also noticed something different with her hip when we were walking - so could be that she's in pain constantly, which is then causing the reactivity.

It was a very long, very thorough report - with a solid plan to follow but my heart is breaking.

I think she finds our home situation stressful, so looking into being more boundaried, shorter walks, no touching. Lots of other things too but it will be a long journey.

It's great to hear that Midge is so good around other dogs @Nella68 . It does make life easier to have a sociable dog you know you can trust. They are at the most boisterous age right now, so I suppose it's all too easy for them to get overexcited though. Brie is quite reserved around dogs, but she seemed to like the little pup today. It jumped up against her but she didn't seem to mind because it wasn't barky.

I'll order another bag of the junior kibble then @LandSharksAnonymous and keep her on it for another few months. Thank you 😊
Because we've been here 30 years, loads of people in the village know us and remember our past dogs, so Brie does tend to meet the same few dogs that are allowed to come and say hi to her, even though she's on a lead.

Sylvie was like Clem; she would just avoid people and dogs. She was the one who walked off lead, so it was generally easy for her to wander off and leave the socialising to her sister who was a bit of a tart and loved attention 😆

Thank you for updating us @Flowerfusion . Sorry - I cross posted with you and have only just seen this.

It all sounds awfully hard and my heart goes out to you.
So will the first step be to see a vet to assess her for pain? I'm assuming so. Pain when they walk does have a very profound effect on their behaviour.

It does sound as though there will be a lot of new rules imposed on you by the behaviourists report but try not to worry too much. It's really only their interpretation of what they see, and that is only a snapshot. You know your own dog.
Just take their suggestions and slowly make tiny changes.

If you want any more support here, don't be afraid to share x

@Flowerfusion I'm sorry that's completely rotten! If it's her hips, do you think it might be dysplasia? That can be very painful and affect their mood. Do you mind me asking why she might find the home situation stressful? By all accounts its sound like she's adored and loved!

@Aubrielle happy to help! It's amazing how dogs, even when raised together, can be so different! Sylvie sounds very much like Clem - and both would be my spirit animals. Twatdog tarts himself for anyone he can and I stand there grimacing whilst he gets fusses.

I have to go back to work tomorrow. Nearly 4 months on SUPL. I'm debating pulling a sicky and just staying in bed all day with the dogs...but I am trying to remind myself (unsuccessfully) that I am an adult, and I have to show a good example to DC. The only plus side is that it was 'Cake Monday' today and the cake table is in my office, so as soon as I arrive I can eat cake.

@Flowerfusion I am so sorry you are feeling heartbroken. I had a reactive dog and I cried when I saw a behaviourist, so I completely understand how you feel.
It sounds like she knows her stuff and was very thorough. Hopefully the report she has written and the action plans will help your pup. It might be a long journey, but it will be worth it.
I would go back to the vets and ask for x-rays or a referral to an orthopaedic specialist to sort her hip out too. If she's in constant pain, that's going to seriously affect her mood.
Good luck. Please stick around and let us know how things go.

Thank you @Aubrielle - yes, first stage is vet. The one I want to talk to is away currently and not back until Thursday. I don’t want another bad vet experience so going to tread carefully.

@LandSharksAnonymous we are going to ask for imaging to try and work out what’s going on. She is SO loved. I have two primary aged kids - which can be noisy - she barks and runs in as soon as any sort of noise starts and she’s air snaps at their hands currently.

She’s always had full access downstairs so going to add a stair gate to the living room so we can control the situation better. Enforce more day sleep in her room. Walks with just one person so she’s not going too fast.

They’ve been so involved in her training, gone on all the walks, picked up the poo etc. But I think the excitement they bring is too much for her currently. It wasn’t before though… maybe a gradual thing?

@SpanielsGalore I just hate the fact that she’s anxious and possibly always in a pain too.

I’ve noticed some things with her leg - she sometimes doesn’t put it on the floor as she walking, like she skips it out. Sometimes on a walk she’ll just sit and then lie down and that’s the walk done. The behaviouralist has various clips in slow motion which show her left hip over rotating. She definitely knows her stuff.

I’ll be sticking around. The knowledge and experience here is incredible.

@Flowerfusion I imagine as she has grown and the pain in her hip has increased, she's become less able to cope with the children's energy levels. It's a shame your vet didn't pick it up when you took her to be examined a few weeks ago. If she's skipping and refusing to walk, then it must be quite severe by now.
I do believe that when you have the pain under control, her anxiety and reactivity will reduce too.

Oh gosh @LandSharksAnonymous
Back to work after 4 months - that'll be a shock to the system! And, I imagine, quite a shock for little Eris too! I hope you can ease yourself back in gently with lots of cake and coffee.

@Flowerfusion I agree with @SpanielsGalore that it would have been helpful for the hip issue to have been picked up sooner. The poor little mite is clearly in agony! My parents had an Anatolian with Hip Dysplasia and it had a very adverse effect on his temperament. He too was unwilling to go for a walk because of pain. Hopefully your vets can offer advice as to the severity of the issue and possibly get her started on some pain relief to begin with. Please let us know how it goes.

@Flowerfusion if she’s still very young (under 18 months) they do get worse bouncy wise before they get better - and obviously if she’s in pain it all gets exacerbated. It sound so stressful for you and the kids though, I’m really sorry. Let us know what the imaging shows?

@Aubrielle she’ll be fine! Her and the rest are off to spend the day with DMum (walk to station and DMum waits there in her car and we hoist all the dogs in and I get on the train). So she’s going to be spoilt all day and play with Satan. I’m more worried about twatdog. I think he knows something is up, as he keeps chinning on me and crying. He gets very clingy, bless him. But yes, much coffee and cake to be consumed. And tube strike which means London should be empty 😁

@Flowerfusion It sounds like the behaviourist was great. You’re definitely doing all the right things and hopefully you’ll see some improvement over time. Poor pup possibly being in pain 🙁 I can’t believe the vet didn’t pick up on it the first time around. I can highly recommend seeing a specialist physio too if it’s an option for you (maybe the vet will refer you anyway) but we had a vet dismiss our concerns about Vinny’s intermittent limp and I found a fantastic physio locally who diagnosed him with luxating patella in one leg and a bit of cruciate damage in the other. If I’d have just blindly trusted the vet (which I would be inclined to do as I am a first time dog owner!) then it would have been much worse in the long run.

@LandSharksAnonymous good luck on your first day back! Enjoy a few hours dog free 😄

@YorkshireFelix I am very hard at work...mouse-wiggling and on mumsnet. 😀I know I joked about tube strikes, but the external I am meant to be meeting is currently 40 minutes late and I can't really do anything until I've spoken to them (talk about jumping back in at the deep end) and I'm not going to clear my inbox (20K+ emails). So here I am - missing my babies and lurking on mumsnet 😂

If anyone wants to share doggy photos to make this slightly tedious wait a bit less boring...

A couple from one of our favourite places now that ground nesting bird season is over. Just have to watch out for naturists!

@Flowerfusion It's also worth seeing a pain specialist if your vets are no use. I know you had problems finding pain relief that didn't upset her stomach before. My dog with IBD had to have Galliprant or Paracetamol. And I had to remind the vets every single time as they always prescribed Metacam.

I had a vet tell me there was nothing wrong with my dog and he just had behavioural issues. He was reactive and lying down after 15 minutes on a walk. I pushed to see a pain specialist, who took one look at him and said, "He's limping." Turned out he had broken bones in his paw.

@LandSharksAnonymous Hope you have a good first day back at work. Although you don't seem very busy since you are on MN. 😂 I hope you Mum survives with day too. (Cross posted and just read your update. Yay for tube strikes. 😂)

I have just been a snarky bitch. Time to get off MN and walk the dogs.

@SpanielsGalore I do think our first time dog ownership hasn't helped the situation for her. I noticed she sat down for walks when it was just me and her and assumed she was bored, so then we went with kids where she'd have the best time as she'd be going faster with a group. So that wouldn't have helped matters. It seems to be the one on one walks where she stops.

I didn't even know a pain specialist was a thing! She's on some painkillers currently....

It is like any noise from a human sets her off - the TV doesn't. But sudden noise from the kids/husband/car outside does and she runs in barking at it.

@YorkshireFelix We do have a doggy physio around here so once we know more that's a great shout. You are right - you do trust the vets... They did pull her legs backwards at the last check (whatever that does!) but she was in full flight or fight mode at the point and the vet didn't say anything

@LandSharksAnonymous - she's a babe still. 8 months. So I think we have entry into teenager, we had a really anxious period, we have then had a fair bit of change with the summer holidays, and we have a possible pain issue. So a lot going on for her.

@Aubrielle I mean nothing was going to get diagnosed at that last visit. In hindsight I should have stopped the examination but I allowed myself to get swept along. Not again!!

I've got some stair gates arriving today and I'm going to try and make the hallway seem like a great option to be. She already has a little bed there (one of three!) which she spends a lot of time in anyway so going to be really on top of everything whilst we wait for the vet.

@Flowerfusion I didn't either until I needed one. When my vet was useless, I did a lot of googling to find someone to help me. I asked for a referral to see a vet behaviourist, who passed me on to a pain specialist. I now see him with my foster dog for monthly injections and acupuncture.
I think I said before, but the first sign my sprocker was ill was him becoming reactive to noise. He barked at an aeroplane flying overhead, even though it was so high you could barely see it. And trembling at the dustbin men led to my cocker's luxating patella being diagnosed.
I wouldn't blame yourself for not noticing as she's your first dog. People can have owned dogs for 40 years and will not have noticed, because it's not something they have experienced before.

It's the hardest thing though @Flowerfusion and @SpanielsGalore , when you don't have confidence in your vet. Been there with our previous dog. We have to learn to question things, but sometimes we only learn the hard way and often there is nothing we could have done any differently.

Gates are brilliant @Flowerfusion , I'm a big fan. Just as well really because in our house we have 5 😆 It can be challenging for visitors.

And speaking of gates...It's a rare day when I dare to disagree with @LandSharksAnonymous , but on this I shall. If a large male Pyrie doesn't jump over/knock it flat, then no Lab ever will! We have two 43" tall gates that have defeated 6 PMD and are still standing😁

I must admit I quite enjoy your snark on some threads @SpanielsGalore and @LandSharksAnonymous . I shan't flatter myself by referring to us as The Snark Sisters, I'm a lightweight compared to you two, but nonetheless following at your heels 😉

@Aubrielle I do try not to be a snarky bitch, but if someone is going to be sarcastic when you offer a solution to their one problem then I can't help myself.

Unfortunately I have very little faith in vets, due to several incidents.

• Being told my dog had behaviour issues, when he had a broken foot.
• Being told he definitely didn't have IBD, when he did.
• The IMS specialist saying a life of pain is all a dog with IBD can expect. No it isn't.
• Prescribing Metacam when he can't have it.(And when you remind them for the umpteenth time, they ask you if it's written in his notes. How the fuck do I know?)
• operating on P's left leg instead of her right one.
• telling the vet your dog has something stuck in the back of her throat to be told no she hasn't. Her harness is too tight or she has allergies. Or "I have no idea. They don't teach us everything at vet school. You need to see someone with more experience."

So I have learnt over the years to be more forceful and argumentative, because if I don't advocate for my dogs, who will? I Google specialists and ask my vets to do referrals if I'm not happy with their diagnosis.

So @Flowerfusion don't be afraid to demand a referral to a specialist if you aren't happy with your vet's care of your dog. They really shouldn't have missed her hip problem last time you took her. Hopefully you have insurance, because it will probably be expensive.

In other news, K ran herself into the ground and lay down again on our walk. It's a good job she's small with all these carries back to the car.
We'd been out for about an hour and a half and it's around 20°. She'd had a couple of big drinks whilst out. At what point do I worry that this is a health issue?

@SpanielsGalore They operated on the wrong leg??? That is truly awful.

We do have insurance. The lifetime one... which when reading about them all seemed like the best, but we shall see!

I understand your feelings @SpanielsGalore
After our old vet retired, his independent practice was taken over by one of the large vet groups. We lost a healthy, robust 7 year old dog due to their negligence.

With K, I don't know. I thought you felt it was just adrenaline rush, but I don't know at what point you start wondering whether it is something more and have her checked over for pain or cardiac issues. Those were the two areas our vet girls highlighted when I mentioned Brie's lack of stamina.
Yes, it is lucky she's petite enough for you to carry.

@Aubrielle That's awful. Your poor dog. 😭 And as I learnt with P, you can't sue a vet for anything beyond the cost of the treatment either.

Last time was after twenty minutes and was huge gasping for breath pants. First and third times have been after an hour and normal panting. Today she lay down on a patch of grass, rolled around and then refused to get back up. I've not known a healthy dog do that before.

I'd say get her checked over @SpanielsGalore , for your own peace of mind.
The rolling around sounds more like a pain reaction of some sort.

It was horrific what our boy went through. We'll never get over the trauma. Covid lockdown so we couldn't even be with him when he died.

😂😂😂

Such awful stories. I feel very lucky (so far) with our vet practice - it's the nearest to us (literally five minutes' walk) and it's still independent.

I've been encouraged by both our trainer and behaviourist to get Bill to sit and watch the world a bit more. I take Bill to our local cemetery where I've been encouraging him to just sit and watch. It's backfired a bit - he's now collecting treasures like very big sticks and nesting in various spots like some weird giant pigeon, and will absolutely not move unless I tempt him out with steak. But that's sheer bloody-mindedness, and I think joy, rather than adrenaline and a crash. @SpanielsGalore is it possible she just wants to be carried? If not, I would agree that might be worth checking out.