Our Cosmic Autumn Rebellion (Adolescent Support Group)

[MonCoubousMonTourmalet]

Okay folks, let's head into late summer/autumn.

@YorkshireFelix I think what you're finding there is pretty normal. I can do max three retrieves with pupsy before she can't be arsed anymore and I've reconciled myself with the fact that she's not a Lab (ha!) and therefore needs more in her life than marked retrieves.

My absolutely broken brain says to pack in the retrieves for a bit if he's bored and concentrate on hunting instead – or you could mix it up and make it more fun for him with some blinds or some memories. That way you can reinforce your 'back' and it's just a whole new world.

I summoned you!

Our trainer said not to do any hunting exercises with him yet because as soon as he starts doing that it will likely quash any desire (like there is any to begin with!) to retrieve completely. He does actually like to fetch a ball and finds that pretty exciting but we don’t do it often because I don’t want a ball obsessed dog. He was pawing at me earlier and I couldn’t work out what was up, then he came and dropped his ball in my lap 🥲

We tried doing some memory retrieves at our last class but he did not give two shits! I haven’t tried again with him though so maybe in a different environment he might be into it. I will admit that I absolutely haven’t put in half as much work as I should have been doing outside of his classes but the summer holidays are kicking my arse and I feel all out of routine and discombobulated.

It has made me feel better to know gorgeous baby Pupsy also finds it boring after a couple of goes 😄

Hahhah @YorkshireFelix I am buried in work but occasionally lurking and sorry I know I owe you a text.

Fair enough from your trainer, can’t disagree with that. What kind of dummy are you using? Might a floppy rabbit dummy be more fun for him? Or a pheasant dummy with wings and a head?

Weird that he couldn’t be bothered with the memories. I find blinds good fun to do as it’s somewhere between hunting and retrieving and I make her work hard to get her find. Have to be careful not to do it somewhere where she might find something better – like an actual pheasant – though.

Honestly, she couldn’t be less fussed by it. I thought it was my fault in steadying her up too soon and maybe it was but also I think a lot of cockers don’t want to retrieve as (they think) it’s a bit easy and ultimately not their job. Tasha (and lots of others with big dog teams) train all their breeds the same way, to be able to do everything and I really admire that but outside a pro working environment I don’t see the point in making a dog that can’t be bothered with marked retrieves to do them when they’d be better off getting their nose down to work next to me.

Do not worry I know you are swamped right now!!

Yes I did wonder if another type of dummy might work better. I saw you can actually buy a dummy sleeve which is the same fabric as a tennis ball 😂 There’s a few different ones on Field & Fireside so I might ask tomorrow in our class if she recommends anything.

I still have the rabbit ball lurking in the back of the cupboard and I occasionally get it out to see how he reacts but it still sends him absolutely loopy (in a bad way!). I know he would absolutely LOVE to hunt so it feels like a thankless task persevering with retrieving, but I’m going to put my trust in our trainer and hopefully when I can put the work in it will pay off eventually.

I woke up to the best news ever: DH is coming home after three consecutive overseas tours (10 years) and is even short touring, so he’ll be home permanently at Christmas! 😀

Anyway, just had to get that out my system, let’s talk dogs. Far more important:

@Aubrielle i always forget how large Brie is! Not fat, at all, just strong and beautiful! @YorkshireFelix it does come with time though - the not being toppled over. It’s also a different sort of strength, I’ve found. With mine they don’t get up their speed so quickly so their end of the line tug is about as strong as their jump, whereas when I walk Satan if she tugs - because she’s small so can get up speed - I go flying.

I found when I first started taking Twatdog to classes that he had no interest in the dummy, but when he was actually working it was like he was a different dog! Perhaps Vinny just wants the real thing? I do agree with @brushingboots - it’s why I didn’t really finish the classes and went straight to the real thing.

Twatdog is back to himself now - but is noticeable a bit distant from Eris, so there’s definitely a bit of jealousy there. But as I said, it’s my fault and I just need to keep rewarding his good behaviour. She shoved her head in his food bowl last night before I could stop her, and whilst he was eating, and he did nothing but move over and allow her to share his food. He’s such a good boy. For all I whine about how pointless he is, and what a muppet he is, he does have a heart of absolute gold

Ahh @LandSharksAnonymous that is such lovely news! Is he in the underwater service, per chance? So glad for you. We were until recently in an adjacent one and though it’s not the same I know what it’s like.

Well, that sounds like a very significant and wonderful thing for your family @LandSharksAnonymous I'm sure Christmas this year will be especially magical for both of you and your girls.

I hope you don't mind sharing Eris though... My chap, who I remind every single day did not feel ready for a pup when I came across the Brie litter, is now completely smitten 😆 He has the total adoration of my (well, our) puppy and our cat. So I'm dropping hints about a boy again, and slightly jealous that you have that amazing bond with Twatdog 💕What a good boy allowing Eris near his food bowl. That says a lot about how your dogs are reared.

Oh god, yes, Brie is massive. Every day we laugh at her size. Nothing like the other girls at all, now almost as big as Merlin but more leggy, very long. At the moment she kind of looks strangely proportioned, as if she's made up of bits from all different dogs.... but I think she'll grow into herself over the coming months. Our vet says she's on the lean side, but we prefer that to them being too weighty. Looking forward to seeing her in full adult coat for the first time so we are slightly hoping for a cold winter.

@LandSharksAnonymous that is incredible news!! You must all be so pleased!!

It could be possible re the classes vs real life. And it’s also entirely possible that I just need to put more work in too as I’ve not been very consistent with training.

Aww Twatdog sharing his food is very sweet. I am glad he seems to be coming round a bit.

@brushingboots - he's not. He's (very boringly) with the FCDO. I'm not sure he has the stomach for anything more extreme than sitting at dinners with nodding away.

@Aubrielle thank you! The dogs all love him, but in that 'oh it's you, you come around a few times but don't stay very long,' type way so I'm not sure how they'll find him being around. Out of all of them, Hen adores him the most but we had her as a puppy when he was last in London for an extended period, so she grew up with him around.

It's probably a good thing if Brie is a bit lean, as you say it's definitely preferable to her being a bit chubby. This way you can be sure there's not unnecessary pressure on her joints which given she's so young and still growing is so important. You say she's long...how long from snout to tail? She looks tall, but I hadn't necessarily noticed her length but that's probably because I wasn't looking for it in photos (mostly just fixated on her beautiful face)

@YorkshireFelix It's hard to be consistent with training when they're young and you have kids as there's always so much happening and the dogs always need so much that training always slips a bit! When's your next class?

It was a two person job to attempt to measure her @LandSharksAnonymous and she is a Mrs Wrigglebottom, but the closest we could get was about 64" nose to tail. She's over the breed standard shoulder height for a bitch at 30". Our other bitches were only about 26", which is why I keep banging on about her size; it has been unexpected. I don't know how any of that compares with a Goldie for size but a small cocker could probably just about walk underneath her.

Size isn't everything though, as you know, and I do still worry about her early growth rate; she was a very big pup, and I hope she won't pay for that later on. Her weight is where we want it now, last weigh-in at the vets, in the spring, was 47kg, so we give a rough guess at 50 now. That's top end for a bitch, and we don't want her any heavier, although she will gain muscle once we start doing longer walks.

It's hard with the giants because their size always becomes the defining characteristic, there's no escaping that. But they're so complex and deep that it feels like I'm doing her a disservice every time I mention it. It goes way beyond the look of them, although I'm sure people think "status dog" at times. But Brie, she is a paradox; anxious but cheeky, boisterous but calm, aloof but cuddly. She's a lot of dog in every way.

Sorry for the essay (again) 🙄

Gundog class actually went ok!. I almost didn’t even go because I’m so stressed at the minute, but I’m glad I did as I feel much better for it.

V did a good retrieve but then did his usual showboating, but I am just happy that he was interested in picking up in the first place. He went last so I think he had a bit of FOMO seeing the other dogs do it. Then the second time he wasn’t interested so we tried a rabbit skin thing instead which he went crazy for and then clamped his jaws shut and refused to release it 😄

The one good thing about group classes is it’s interesting to see the differences between the dogs. There’s a very clear divide now between half of the dogs (two of the labs and the goldie) who LOVE retrieving and do it beautifully, then the other lab (which is the sister of one of the retrieving lovers), the sprocker and Vinny who couldn’t be less interested. Our trainer said almost all spaniels prefer hunting to retrieving so we have to work much harder to get them interested, and it’s very important to keep it fun.

I was speaking to the nice lady who has the sprocker and she said she’s 18 months old so only 3/4 months older than V. She had another sprocker for 17 years and said she was the perfect dog and barely took any effort to train, but this one is the complete opposite and she was genuinely looking to rehome her until she started working with our trainer! I couldn’t believe it as she is a fab dog so she has worked wonders with her. She said she would literally spend every walk in tears. I’m going to try and chat with her again next week as I’m really interested to know what turned things around for her.

Anyway my TLDR is that V was ok at his class and I’ve not set him free to live the rest of his life up on the moors yet.

@YorkshireFelix Awww well done Vinny. Glad you had a good class and you feel better about things.

@LandSharksAnonymous That's good news to wake up too. Must be very difficult living apart for long periods.

My lesson for the day is always keep a bottle of water and a bowl in your car for emergencies.
I took the dogs to the woods again. They were both really good until right near the end of the walk, when K disappeared. We'd gone a different route, so she wasn't near road this time at least. But she was gone for over 5 minutes and I couldn't see or hear her. She eventually popped out onto the path, but then ran off again before I could get her lead on. When she came back for the second time, I put her lead on and we walked the five minutes back to the car. She was absolutely knackered and on the point of collapse by the time we got there.
So yes. Keep water in the car and then you won't have to let them drink your blackcurrant squash. 😳

@SpanielsGaloreoh gosh you must have been so worried! They are little buggers. I remember one time when V was little, he was in the back of the car with dd and she said ‘he’s enjoying his drink Mummy!’ and no bloody wonder he was because she was feeding him the Vimto I’d put in my water bottle without realising 😂

@YorkshireFelix 😂 Good to know Vinny has had some too. I didn't know if it was safe for her to drink, but the way she flopped down in the car I needed to get some fluids into her. It took 45 minutes and two drinks of water when we got home for her to stop panting. And she's barely moved since.

I hope she's okay @SpanielsGalore , that sounds worrying. I don't think the drink will harm her though.

Brie's favourite tipple is a mug of tea 🙄

@Aubrielle Twatdog is a bit shorter! But like Brie he’s tall and long but not large. He can’t lay across the width of my car’s back seats because he’s too big, but the girls all can. He also doesn’t fit in the boot of a XC40, but all the girls do.

I do know what you mean about size though. Twatdog gets so much attention because he’s big. It’s what people always comment on, but as you say there’s so much more to him than being big!

I have to confess I find Brie such an interesting girl to hear about. As you say, she’s so different really to any other dog - not only because of her breed but because it’s you who have raised her and you know the breed inside out so can make comparisons others wouldn’t necessarily (at least it my view!)

@YorkshireFelix i love the ‘not set him free…yet.’😁I bet if you tried he’d be straight back!

@SpanielsGalore that must have been terrifying! I have to confess I wouldn’t handle it nearly as well - it would be straight back on the lead forever with me. It’s why I went all banshee the one time Twatdog didn’t recall properly.

Satan gets tea in a saucer! But then she also gets a full roast dinner once a week with all the trimmings. So we all know what sort spoilt princess dog she is.

Should perhaps point out that Brie isn't even given a saucer of tea, she just drinks it from whatever mug she comes across 😠

@YorkshireFelix Brie's main ambition in life is to live on the moor, so if we could meet in the middle, she & Vinny could be companions, living wild like the two dogs in The Plague Dogs book.

@LandSharksAnonymous I must admit I was on the verge of panicking. I can usually hear her running or her tags jangling, even if I can't see her. But there was nothing. I'd started mentally composing my FB appeal for help searching. 😂
The longest time I have ever lost a dog for is two hours. He took off after a pheasant into the woods and was gone. I'd called in reinforcements and had a friend making a Dogs Lost poster that time.

I grew up with a jack Russel who would drink your tea if you made the mistake of putting your mug down. So I didn't know until recently that it's meant to be bad for dogs. All of my puppies have drank the last bit of my tea, but grew out of it. And yes, they drank it straight from the mug.

Pleased to say K is fully recovered this morning. We'll be doing two short field walks though rather than a long wood one.

OMG @SpanielsGalore Two hours...? 😱

I learned the hard way that tea isn't great for them. My mum kept giving it to Sylvie and it gave her terrible cystitis, so after that it was banned. We are slowly re-learning to put food and drink out of reach, but Brie still keeps homing in on my cuppa if I'm not careful.

Glad that K is okay.

Playing with a new spiny ball this morning, and looking oddly lean, mean and wolfish because of the moult pattern. No shedding of ruff or pantaloons. She has three new 12cm spiny balls, and is becoming a surprisingly good little retriever!

@SpanielsGalore 2 hours!? What did he do when he came back? Did he look ashamed? Or did he carry on as normal?

The only thing mine have ever drunk out of a mug or glass is water, so after one too many mouthfuls of slimey-dog-drooled water I decided I'd have a water bowl in every room in my house 😀That way there's no excuse for them to drink from my cup

@Aubrielle her moult pattern is incredible 😍She is so beautiful.

@LandSharksAnonymous I was heading back to the car and he appeared running towards me. He saw me and went to run away (people phobic) but then realised it was me and came running up. We were very happy to see each other, so he was all happy and waggy tailed. When we got back to the car, there were paw prints all over it. He must have walked all the way round it on his hind legs, looking in the windows for me.
We have water bowls in every downstairs room too, plus one in the bedroom. I'm amazed how often I have to refill them. It must be a constant job with five dogs.

@Aubrielle Brie is lovely. 💖 That photo does make her look slim. I must get myself a ruff and hope it has the same affect. 😂

God, I know @SpanielsGalore , I think we all need a furry ruff if it'll give us a waistline like hers 🙄

Poor boy, looking for you at the car. Bless him. I'm sure I've said before that Sylvie once "lost" my husband on a walk and ran home. It must happen so often but it really does give you a heart stopping moment.

We have two big ceramic water bowls in the house and a metal one for outside during summer (it's not left out all the time though, because of slugs). Plus a Road Refresher bowl for travel.

Torrential rain here right now, so there wont be a peep out of Brie until it stops.

Aww the paw prints on the car is so sad 😭 bless him!

This isn’t very interesting but may be of use to anyone with a dog who isn’t that interested in a dummy like mine!

I spoke to our trainer about it last night and she asked if we were still doing the ‘back chaining’ exercise with his reluctant retriever dummy. It’s something she taught us on the 1:1 where you basically use a shaping technique to get them to work out that you want them to hold the dummy in their mouth. So you show them you putting treats in the dummy pocket, then hold it in front of them and if they touch it with their nose you reward, then if they touch with their mouth you reward and so on. I said we had been doing it but he only seems to nose boop it and that’s it. She told me to wait it out and eventually he will try something else, and if it’s the behaviour you want then reward him again. So he eventually moved on to brushing his mouth against it, which I rewarded. Then after a while he put his mouth around it briefly which got a big reward. Then eventually he started wanting to hold it in his mouth which got massive praise and reward.

We did this a few times and he was then excited about holding the dummy, so I decided to take the opportunity to do some marked retrieves and he did so well! He was really enthusiastic and happy about it all. It was only in the house so very low distraction but it’s a start 😄