The hate towards doddle owners.

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The hate against doodles,
I keep reading about Doodle owners, in a negative way on here, I'm wondering why they is so much negativity around them.

For context I have a poodle cross, who gets treated like a dog, we have used trainers, she goes hiking with us, is groomed regular. Doesn't sleep in our bed, can be left alone for a few hours no problem, and not a fussy eater, just eats dry food.
I didn't pay 1000s for her, paid the same as a cross breed. She has no health issues etc.

Yes she does have traits of both breeds, she can be hyper, and prone to barking at times. But we are aware of her breeds, both working dogs.

So am I unusual in that my doddle is treated like a dog. Or is there an unfair reputation towards doodles and owners?

People can be such twats about it and think they are all high and mighty as they got a pure breed.

Indeed. Which in itself is hilarious because as we all should know all ‘pure breeds’ were once cross breeds too.

They’re also, after decades of inbreeding more prone to all sorts of issues.

We’ve got a doodle. From a neighbours’ pets’ litter. She’s the best dog. I feel bad for anyone that has a dog not as amazing as ours. ;)

She’ll walk all day if we are out, if we don’t go out she’ll snooze with us. She gets on with our 3 cats (though one of our cats gets on with no one but himself).. She sleeps on our bed, we often wake up with her face next to ours. She comes out to dog friendly restaurants with us (rather than leave her at home), she has no behavioural issues at all.

So in sum, be snobby about doodles and doodle owners if you like, people. It doesn’t matter to me one jot 😁😁

Some of my best dog walking friends have poodle crosses. I have a miniature poodle. There’s absolutely no doubt that my poodle is calmer and better behaved than any of the crosses.

The crosses do seem to come with behaviour problems.

I don't know if your perception is entirely the reality.
I can only speak from experience, where we live there has been a large increase in numbers of dogs since the pandemic. Standard breeds, a few unusual breeds and millions of doodles of all sizes. In addition to this lots of fancy dog grooming (spas!!! With beauty treatments) places and a few pet shops aimed primarily at dogs.
I am in no doubt grooming places are mainly for doodle owners. I honestly believe a lot of doodle owners are a marketing dream.

I would say at least 50% of local doodles have an irritating bark and neurotic behaviour because they are energetic dogs. Definitely the owners' fault. And thank goodness they don't own German Shepherds or any other dog breed as it would be a disaster. So I find it very hard to take these kind of dog owners seriously.
But honestly all the doodles I've come across are actually very easy dogs and never cause any serious issues. And for every inexperienced or idiot doodle owner, I see 5 responsible owners. And I can't imagine I'd ever in my life hate a dog or dog breed or a stranger who happens to own a doodle, ridiculous idea.
I must confess one thing doodle dogs are not is being photogenic. Yet so much advertising using doodles photos. It might be because advertisers are trying to entice a large number of potential buyers through the doodle world. I mean advertising for everything, not just dog products, but even estate agents.

Let me tell you what I particularly dislike: unruly Labradors. Easiest breed to train, strong dogs. What's wrong with the owners???? These are dream family pets, wonderful dogs, it should be impossible to get it wrong, yet there's always a lazy or clueless Labrador owner. There is absolutely zero excuse.

They’re also, after decades of inbreeding more prone to all sorts of issues

Under this argument doodles will be no better, if not worse as risk the issues of the inbreeding of both the parents breed.

But equally most doodles have no parental health checks, which leads to all sorts of issues.

I know lots of lovely doodles, but I know at least as many that are nervous/reactive and aren't seen in public.

I don’t judge, but I am a bit puzzled. It almost feels like people don’t think “I’d like a dog; what sort shall I get” as that a cockerpoo or whatever is the inevitable choice, or a different catagory to “dog” that the decisions range is I’ll get a dog/cat/cockerpoo. Iyswim

also, I am a bit worried about where the poodles all are. One rarely sees them, so how are all these xxxxxpoos being bred?

Just realised how long this diatribe is. Basically a doodle isn't a solid outcome, it means people hoping for a certain type of dog often get another which means there's a massive amount of dogs now reactive or behaviourally struggling in unprepared hands

Agree that for me it often shows a lack of research and ive never met a decent doodle breeder. I met a lot in rescue that probably colours my view

There's often a false idea that because it's a mix that it's healthier so in my experience it's rare to meet one with two health tested parents, even if they are both breeds with a high propensity for the same health problem, that no responsible breeder would breed

We also see lots of unsound behaviour spaniels for example that any spaniel owner would know to stear clear off being pushed into parent hood

They are often sold as something they are not. People talk about things like coats as a certainty, and personality when in reality for most traits you have no idea what parent they will inherit from and often it's just seen as a fluffier version of another breed rather than anyone actually wanting the breed mix it is. I've seen mixes being described completely different in temperament to any of their breed traits leaving owners thinking they are getting teddy bear like personalities when it's a mix of 3 energetic breeds.

We saw lots come in because Breeders would advertise about hypoallergenic, or where 99% of the time someone would have been been better with the base breed or poodle.

Eg people that really would have suited a cavalier, but now have introduced a poodle that gives a separation anxiety, poor frustration tolerance and intelligence they aren't equipped to handle

Or people that wanted something more poodle and a smart companion like but have had a big working breeds moved in

Half the time people just don't want to admit a poodle Would suit them better because they don't like the look

I've seen lots of breeds doodled and it's rarely to the benefit of their temperament. I've seen everything from newfoundland, collies to tiny toy breeds

The last dog I fostered for example was a perfect mix of a Yorkie, Maltese,poodle, schnauzer etc behaviourally which the owners were completely shocked by because they had been sold it as having a calm personality more akin to a cuddly toy and were shocked that it was a barky terrior in personality and not a lap dog.

I could tell you lots of things about doodle breeders that would make your hair stand on end. In general just lots of taking advantage of people, misleading people about what they've created, selling false assurances including creating odd certificates to registry that doesn't exist and it 99% backyard and exploitative breeders

The reality is if you had a decent spaniel or any breed that you wanted to breed, the only way you'd choose to doodle it over breed it with a spaniel is if you were after money.

You'll get hundreds of people claiming that their doodle was responsibly bred and it will be a back yard breeder, their best mate or some dodgy puppy farm with fake advertising

Similar is also happening with exotic type bullies

We are also seeing some terrible Mali things

So it's not just doodles we judge

Pure breed owners/ breeders hate them because it's the threat! People just cross willy nilly 2 pedigree dogs and can charge more money per pup than a pedigree one.

They then call this money grabbing backyard breeding in an attempt to stamp it out & give a bad name.
I think the doodle is a result of very poor breeding over many years. People believe they are healthier, just like the good old fashioned mongorel. And maybe they are. Most pedigree health tests exist because of in- and over breeding mainly for the show ring. But it's made out to be proof of quality and care for the dogs.

They are far easier to get hold of. No lengthy waiting list. No jumping through hoops for the breeders. Actually something I don't agree with. Some vetting is good, but excessive vetting is not OK. And a fair few breeders do this.

That's how the stigma is created.

@JSMill Yep!! ages ago, I made a post on a similar thread about the cockerpoo club GB, and how the first four recommended breeders I clicked on were all puppy farmers (they had websites complete with multiple litters, multiple breeding birches and no dogs over the age of 5) and how could anyone not think from that that the cockerpoo breeding industry is inherently dodgy. Not a single doodle only replied or acknowledged my point. Which says a lot, I think.

I just get irritated by any dog fashion which becomes a trend. But there are far worse things than crossbreeds. Like dogs wearing clothes and being pushed around in a pram. I think the worst about poo dogs is that they are fashionable because they look like a cuddly toy.

I think it's because the explosion in treating a dog like a human happened at the same time as the explosion in their popularity. People have seen more badly trained dogs and more doodles and their brain has drawn the correlation and assumed causation.

I agree with the PP about concern for the poodle breed dying out. Poodles are absolutely gorgeous dogs. Most of the things people love about doodles, is the poodle. And you don't even have to get them cut frou-frou like this 🐩, they can look like teddy bears if you want.

I say that as a cockerpoo owner who now wants a full poodle as well! I want a pack of poodles 😭❤️ (But I cannot afford a pack of dogs so sadly I'll have to just dream)

pram pushing is because they struggle to walk the full distance, so no need to be annoyed with that imo
dressing up, hmm, carrying..

I hate the whole designer mongrel thing. And what happens to crosses that don’t emerge looking the way they are supposed to look?

Take a pomapoo

Both parents breeds if bred individually would need patella checks. So breeding them together doesn't mean that they would have any healthier patella.

Absolutely there is dodgy pedigree breeding but at least there is a clear set of things decent owners would ask decent breeders about

A well scored pom puppy from both parents is far better, than a completely unscored poodle and pom parents who might have such atrocious patellas that neither should breed

I'd never recommend anyone get a pomeranian without certain scores, and I'm sure poodle people would do the same. Somehow when it's a doodle people think it's unnecessary.

When they are true mixes of diverse different breed types then mixes can be more protected but a doodle often isn't a true mix. Its often less than 5 breeds, often of a similar type and sometimes all prone to similar things

Its again the narrative that somehow a doodle is only the best of both parents, where only the desirable health, coat and temperament comes through rather than accepting for most of it it's a coin toss of what traits they get from where

YES. 😡

And those going for a run with their poor dog having to run with them.

Yep for me I think it’s because doodles seem to be bought by people without dog knowledge. Often first timers who see a fluffy teddy bear in the park, and think oh that “breed” is ideal for us, we want one just like that.

not realising that doodles don’t breed true, their coats can be a high maintenance nightmare, and they might be a worst of both breeds. Then they pop off to a puppy farm or find a byb because they’ve made the decision and want one now.

the kind of people who list all the qualities of a poodle, but don’t seem to realise that by outcrossing it they are less likely to get those qualities.

i saw someone asking for a yorkipoo. They wanted a yorkie, but thought they needed a yorkipoo because they wanted non shedding and hypoallergenic, clearly not realising a yorkie is both of those things. No need to cross it.

but then I feel the same about those who buy dachshunds and brachycephalics without doing a shit ton of research.

doodles nearly exclusively come from puppy farms. That’s why I judge the owners.

And me. I’m quite dissapointed.

@Meltedbrains that was very informative-thank you.

I instantly assume that anyone with a doodle knows nothing about responsible dog breeding or puppy farming, and therefore couldn’t be bothered to research the issues and find out before they got a dog. I assume this because a quick google of how to buy a puppy responsibly/avoid puppy farmers will warn you about the proliferation of poodle crosses. So I judge the owners of these dogs for contributing to unethical breeding and not doing basic homework before they got a dog.

The only real conclusion from doing proper research into dog ownership is to either get a rescue dog, or if you don’t want to do that, a pedigree from health-tested parents and a breeder who doesn’t need to be on Pets4Homes or similar.

And you can give a dog all the love in the world, a great diet, exercise and training once you have it. It still doesn’t excuse encouraging the proliferation of backyard breeding or puppy farming which buying a doodle perpetuates.

Some interesting perspectives from posters. Some i hadn't thought about, who have mentioned well thought out arguments.

As someone who has had pedigree dogs in the past. And now a cross breed, who have all been muched loved addition to our home.

I have had to work within the different breeds traits. I will say having the poodle intelligence has been interesting and challenging at times, when training both good and bad.

I worked with a trainer who dose gun dog training, who thought she was a Fab little dog, but definitely on the working temperament side/drive. But as an active, outdoors family, she fits right in. Hiking, swimming etc.

I realised my spelling mistake not sure how to edit it 😅.

@WhosenameisthisI totally agree with you. We know a family who lost their cat on. Wednesday, decided to get a dog the next day and went out on the weekend and got a cockerpoo they’d seen on Gumtree. They took my dd with them and when they brought her home, the mum was saying there was one puppy left, why don’t I take it so the sisters could be together. I was like, I cannot take on a dog whose background I know nothing about just on a whim. Luckily my dd was mature about it.

To expand on what I said upthread...
(TLDR: I am a judgmental cow, but I have my reasons.)

When you see someone with a pedigree Westie or Bichon walking down the street, there are reasonable odds that the dog was sensibly bred by someone who was doing it primarily for reasons other than turning a profit. When you see a doodle, the odds of that diminish. There will be doodles out there who are sensibly and carefully bred, but a much lower proportion of them will be than, say, Cairns.

I can understand though why people sometimes want to avoid pedigrees (and I say this as someone who has had both pedigrees and crosses, and grew up with a mutt and a pedigree).

Some breeds have been developed to ludicrous extremes - their faces too flat for them to breathe properly, their backs too long for the to jump off the sofa safely, their skulls to constrained a shape for their brains to fit properly. Or they have too much coat, or over-long dangling ears that need cleaning regularly and still get infected.

Behind all of that you have the genetic issues that plague certain breeds. You can health-test your way past PRA or von Willebrand's, and you check the hips and elbows of the parent dogs, but some things remain concentrated in specific breeds but impossible to test for (Vizsla Inflammatory Polymyopathy, for example - a genetic test might be on its way there but so far nothing seems to be certain). Cavaliers are so prone to Mitral Valve Disease that the only way out is probably an outcross; Dobermans similarly have heart issues that are widespread in the breed; some breeds are very prone to cancer. If a breed has a high risk of an issue, but other breeds do not, then that problem is genetically mediated, and if you outcross to a breed that doesn't have the problem, you up your chances of a healthy puppy.

The final issue is all the problems that come with a high degree of inbreeding: increased risks of cancer and immune issues, lower life expectancy, smaller litter sizes... You can find the coefficient of inbreeding (COI) for a litter on the KL website (or you used to be able to, anyway) - but that is just the known level based on the known pedigree, not on the genetics of the dog. Even with that, when we were looking for a puppy a few years ago I was finding litters that were 20-25% inbred - 25% is the same as a full-sibling mating. I think that is grossly irresponsible. Your chance of doubling up on dodgy recessive genes (which we all carry) is massively increased compared to a dog with a much lower COI.

So people look at all that and think buying a crossbreed will solve all these problems. And sometimes it does - I have known a lot of healthy, long-lived lurchers, scrappy farm terriers ('Jack Russell - well, grandad was a Patterdale, one of the grandmas had a bit of collie in her...').

But if the dogs that are bred are genetically neurotic, and the puppies are then reared in much less than ideal conditions, you might get a healthy dog who is an absolute nerve-bag. Or if the parent breeds are both prone to PRA, and the breeder hasn't bothered to test at least one of them for it, you still risk a dog who will go blind. Or the parent dogs just have shitty lives in some windowless barn, producing litter after litter.

So, yes, I do judge people who get their puppies from puppy farms. I judge people who have pugs and dachshunds from the more extreme ends of the breed type (which is most of them now - my GPs had a dachsie who was very moderate, but that was 40 years ago - you see very few like that now). I judge people who have dogs with insane COIs. And I judge the breeders of all those dogs even more severely than the owners, because a lot of puppy buyers have a vague idea that a crossbreed will solve the problems that they are worried about, and have no idea how unscrupulous some people are, and don't do their due diligence, whereas the breeders are the ones who oversee a 4 yr old bitch having her 6th litter, or are so driven by their desire to win at Crufts that even though they'd never breed siblings, and do all the health tests, they're happy to produce litters with eye-watering COIs.

Sorry, that was long! 10+ posts while I was typing.

Under this argument doodles will be no better, if not worse as risk the issues of the inbreeding of both the parents breed.
NO!
Some genetic diseases are recessive - the offspring need a copy of the faulty gene from each parent to develop the illness. For example, if one breed carries the usual form of PRA, but the other doesn't, the puppies will not develop PRA though they might be carriers. However, if you breed a cross-bred line where one founder carries PRA, and then breed those cross-breeds to each other, you might start to see affected dogs.

A lot of groomer’s seem to dislike cockerpoo’s too, I was surprised, as the ones I’ve seen on walks seem lovely.
I had a Labrador, he was a dream dog, easy to train but obviously needed a lot of exercise, he would have, throughout the day, about four hours. I used to to see other Labs, with owners who were unsuitable, they would stand with a ball chucker for 15 or so minutes, getting the dog to retrieve ball, and think that was enough exercise for the dog’s main walk.
I have a Lhasa Apso now and a Shihpoo, you can see the difference in energy levels, whilst out. Lhasa has always huffed and puffed, walked like an old man until he sees something interesting, then he gets a spurt of energy and the Shihpoo, runs everywhere, you can see the happiness radiating from her, as she’s searching for squirrels and anything else of interest.
I had to teach myself to groom them, Lhasa didn’t mind the groomers but the Shihpoo hates being separated and being left with strangers. We don’t go abroad since getting the Shihpoo, and we go on holiday, with the dogs, in the U.K.

A lot of groomer’s seem to dislike cockerpoo’s too, I was surprised, as the ones I’ve seen on walks seem lovely.

I think it's because many of them end up with matted coats as their owners don't bother to groom them properly. Our local groomers are forever putting posts up about matted doodle coats and saying that if a dog comes to them like that, they will be shaved for welfare reasons.