Licked my wounds and back with slightly tweaked username.
@brushingboots Sorry if I took your words out of context. I am overly sensitive about the "off lead" - we are judged or lot or people assume the dogs to be reactive. Oddly enough there used to be a black standard poodle locally that was never off the lead because he was highly reactive. But I do take your point about some dog owners being over cautious.
@SpanielsGalore
Livestock guarding breeds are rarely off lead in public. I won't say never, because there are exceptions, but, as with sled dogs, they are very independent minded. I should point out that LGD still work extensively, all over Europe, US, Canada, as environmentally friendly predator control. They don't work to command; the highest predation comes at night so there is no handler present. The dogs just roam the perimeters. Pups are trained by putting them in with livestock at 6 weeks old; true livestock protection breeds have almost no prey drive so they can live safely alongside sheep or goats. They guard against wolves, coyotes even bears, and these days, rustlers.
Because of this, they are very independent and stubborn which makes them difficult to "train" in the conventional sense. They very often ignore commands because they trust their own instincts. If they see a potential "threat" to the flock they'll be off to investigate, and obviously this puts them at risk of getting onto roads. But also, people don't always welcome a 50kg beast charging up to check them out. Their size is intimidating to other dogs.
Of our 9, only one, Sylvie, had perfect recall. She was amazing. She was pure French, from working lines and was so dedicated to us that she would stay right beside us on a walk. We always had her on a lead near the roads, but on fields, woodland footpaths and bridleways she had complete freedom to roam. She never let us down. When we approached the roads, if we said "wait" she would stop for the lead to be clipped on. Her half sister, Rose, was a devil, chalk and cheese they were. R would go to anybody, so curious. On walks we had one off lead and one on, but the friendlier and more sociable by far was the leashed one. A paradox for most dog people.
Two of the boys could be off lead occasionally, if there was nobody around, no livestock, they could have a run on the moor, but our other 5 had no recall at all. You learn by trial and error. Brie is like Rose; very curious, so she'll only ever be off in a secure field. It's just the nature of the beast with LGD, same as with huskies, if you know it when you take them on it's not so bad. Long walks, long leads and they're pretty happy. It's not fair to have these dogs in an urban environment though.