Adolescent Dog Survival Thread - welcome to the teenage wasteland

[Bupster]

Buckled (under instruction 😄)

@CoubousAndTourmalet See. I said I could be wrong. 😂
P is June born. Was house trained in two weeks, but didn't sleep through the night for months.
K is September born. She slept through the night from day 2, but took about 4 months to be reliable during the day.

The boys are too long ago to remember. I know I thought they were house trained, but I went out and left them with someone else and came home to find poo under the table. So I guess it was me that was trained to watch for signs and let them out, rather than them know what they were doing.

@SpanielsGalore oh it’s a barrel of laughs 😂Once they realise that weeing outside = treats, that’s it. They’re practically glued to the patio refusing to go inside. Then I have the four adults lurking around me, also wanting treats.

@CoubousAndTourmalet oh they definitely have favourites! Twatdog was Pen’s standout favourite from her first litter - she used to crouch over him and grumble if Clem or Hen got too close when he was really young. She still mothers him now - she’ll lick him and groom him like he’s still a puppy. Best part is he lets are, and actively seeks her out for some mothering.

I’ve never noticed a difference in house training re. Girls v. Boys. But most of mine have been clean by 10 weeks. One of the girls in my last litter had a four hour journey home and then as soon as she got out the car, tiddled apparently. She’d held it in the entire journey so she didn’t wee on a human 😍made all the tears and stress about training them worth it!

That is amazing about Pen with Twatdog @LandSharksAnonymous What a wonderful bond 💞 I wonder which of those two girls she will choose for you 😉

Ummm. This is really bad, but baby Brie waited about 6 hours on the journey from Kent 😨It was a Bank Holiday, stationery traffic at Stafford. We had puppy pads in the crate and presumed she'd use them. But no. Got her home, carried her into the garden and she immediately did a big wee. We were kind of open mouthed when we checked the crate and realised. She had a Road Refresher non tip bowl in the crate btw.

She had barked her head off non stop for the first hour or more, and then just crashed out asleep, only waking at the start of the non-motorway section, so literally 15 minutes from home. But how she didn't wee at that point, I do not know. She just sat up, looking around. I suppose the bigger the pup, the bigger the bladder, but we're still amazed by it.

The other thing about Brie is that we only ever had one poo in the house. One single poo, ever. And that was our fault. It was a couple of weeks after we got her, we were vacuuming and didn't hear her ask to go out so she pooed by the back door. I mean, as I keep saying, at home this dog is an angel, but once the lead goes on, the trouble starts.

I really messed up on the early socialisation and I'm paying for that now.

@LandSharksAnonymous I honestly don’t know how you do it! One puppy is bad enough 😄 At least there’s a timeline on it and you know you’re not in it for the long haul with multiple pups.

V took ages to toilet train. I was so naive and thought it would take a couple of weeks because I’d genuinely not seen anyone talk about the possibility of it taking longer than that. He was 5 months before it clicked! We did absolutely everything right too, and I never thought he would get it He stayed with MIL for a weekend whilst we were at a wedding and I think being with her two dogs is what helped him understand what to do.

It took M until about 4 months to be reliably toilet trained. We Initially we were taking him out every 20 mins- half an hour in the wettest spring ever. We invested in a camping gazebo thing and a pen so at least we could stay dry whilst waiting for him to do his stuff.

Having to watch him like a hawk was exhausting- we hadn’t got any back steps at the time so it meant scooping him up and carrying him out at the first sign of a sniff.

The only indoor wee since then was at my in-laws (M was a year old). They have an exposed stone internal wall and M cocked his leg and weed. My mistake was to not take him out to the garden as soon as we arrived and frequently until he got the idea. No accidents since that one though!

@CoubousAndTourmalet how do you think you cocked up the early socialisation- is Brie nervous about different situations now?

I hope your 1-1 chat goes ok

@YorkshireFelix people always say ‘oh you must be so sad to see them go,’ and I always think ‘god no. Take the bastards.’ 😂

Older dogs do 100% help though (even if twatdog used to try and crouch like the girls…). I see this litter already watching the girls go around the garden and weeing and I can see the little cogs in their brains turning as they begin to realise what’s up. I think @CoubousAndTourmalet also makes a very good point - it is easier for bigger dogs and V is small!

@Nella68 was that four months with you, or four months old?

@CoubousAndTourmalet oh Brie is a star!!!! I had the same with twatdog though - one poo once his litter mates had gone (and, like you, 100% my fault).

@YorkshireFelix - we did lots of stuff that I've now learned is apparently wrong (e.g. free access to the outdoors) but got lucky I guess (sleeping overnight was a different matter).

One thing I do think helped, although I've no real evidence for this, is we had a longish car journey with both and the first thing we did was take them into the garden, they weren't even introduced to indoors until they'd done a wee and a poo. They'd already been introduced to the concept of going outside for toileting at the breeders and I think it helped cement the fact that this particular garden was the place to toilet in an entirely new place.

@Nella68

With Brie I got everything wrong from the start. It was a combination of things. Because she had Nobivac 4, we couldn't get her out until she was 14 weeks old. Al the advice is carry your pup, use a sling etc, But they never factor in size. She was 10kg at 8 weeks and almost 16kg by her 12 week vaccines. That's a lot of pup to carry for any length of time.
So that put us at a disadvantage, and before she even got out for walks, the early socialisation period was almost over.

If I could turn the clock back I would take the risk and get out after first vaccines. That's what I'll do with next pup, come hell or high water. F**k Nobivac, it killed one dog of ours and has screwed up another. But I'm equally at fault for not considering that. PMD are usually bomb proof so I was complacent.

Anyway, we thought we were doing okay up until about 6 months, we were walking her locally and doing short car trips up to the moors. She was good with people, good with dogs, and she still is.

Then, on a road walk at maybe 7 or 8 months, she was really badly spooked by a motorbike, one of those where they modify the exhaust to make more noise and pop a lot. We were on a grass verge beside a narrow road. After that she went into a secondary fear period. We worked on it, but it hasn't passed. So now she gets anxious about any noisy vehicle; tractors, trailers, buses, trucks. And she completely panics, which is hard for me. It's why the collar issue has been such a worry.

Right now we're managing, because we do field walks, so less than 5 minutes of pavement, then we're on the nature reserves. But I'm starting to dread winter when the fields will be sodden, because that's when we tend to do more road walks.

So, trying this trainer/behaviourist and we'll see how it goes. There's also the lead biting, jumping, grabbing to address but that's less of an issue.

I have to say I messed up. I expected my 8th Pyrie pup to be the easiest, but she has turned out to be the most challenging. Lesson learned re complacency. Socialisation always matters. And it's all too easy to get it wrong.

I think if we could get another large confident male pup like Algy or Merlin, it would help her but at the moment my partner is not convinced.

At home, she's a different dog; very calm, confident, cheeky, never barks but makes funny talking noises. She's well mannered with food, gentle with our cat, welcoming of visitors. So, as regards home life I did okay. Perfect pup. All our neighbours and people on our little close adore her - even the non doggy ones say how quiet she is. But she just has no confidence on the road walks and I feel so guilty.

Sorry for the very long post x

@LandSharksAnonymous - M was 4 months old so it was 2 months of vigilance and not letting him out of my sight!

@CoubousAndTourmalet that must have been very scary for Brie and she may have had the same response even if you had taken her out before 14 weeks. Have you got any quiet roads nearby you that you could drive to and practise on and then gradually move to noisier roads? Or be on a side road at a distance where she feels comfortable watching the noisy vehicles go past, and little by little get closer?

My nephew’s GSD really struggles with noisy roads as he lives in the middle of nowhere so the dog has had minimal exposure to traffic. He finds it hard as he’s not near traffic areas enough to practise.

@CoubousAndTourmalet Bill is a confident and resilient little hooligan but still really dislikes those noisy motorbikes; he chased one off from the dog park yesterday 😄. It's tricky, isn't it, though? You can never do everything I don't think. I feel I should have done loads more on settling, travelling, etc. Bill's never been on a train or a bus or in a lift and I'm sure there's loads of other stuff he's never experienced that's going to come back to bite me.

My friend who trains assistance dogs has a buggy for her puppies - would that work for your next PMD do you think? I mean, you'd feel daft, but better than trying to carry a PMD in a sling - Bill outgrew his in a week and I had to put him in a rucksack.

@BlueberryPup sorry I missed your post earlier. Blueberry is gorgeous!

@Nella68 four months old is really good! 😊 particularly if there’s no adult dogs to help

Thanks @Nella68 and @Bupster
We live at the top of quite a large village, so there is lots of scope for varied walks. It is very busy at certain times (bit of a rat run, truth be told) so there's pretty much a constant stream of vehicles for her to cope with. I'm having to think ahead when I see trucks or tractors, either stand beside a parked car, or even step into a driveway (fortunately, most people up this end do know us). But I just have this constant fear of being caught unawares, and her pulling me into the road. It's what made the collar escape so terrifying. She spooks really easily.

The problem is that the only way to combat it will probably be increased exposure, and that's what I'm struggling with most because of my anxiety. She's supposed to be my therapy dog to give me confidence to get out of the house (I'm agoraphobic btw), but it's more like I'm being her therapy human at the moment.

I adore her, she is very bonded to me, but it's such a struggle trying to walk her just now. Confidence is ebbing away. Hence trainer/behaviourist. Fingers crossed that she can help.

Maybe I will go buggy/dog pram for next pup or I might just break all the rules and get out after first vaccines but avoid the dog heavy areas. The vet in my family said she wouldn't blame me if I did that...

@LandSharksAnonymous Trust me, I wish dcat would show Blueberry who's the boss. Unfortunately dcat is equally naughty and will (and has already) strike Blueberry in the eyes. We also took a long time getting them not to lunge for each other and Blueberry promptly forgets this once dcat gets into swatting position.
I also saw in previous posts you show dogs! Blueberry is my first show dog. That's a steep learning curve for both of us, especially because here 99% of dogs come with professional handlers. This added to the fact Blueberry is taking forever to mature means we have to be very, very picky about shows we attend. I wish I could pick your brain!

I also wanted to thank everyone who complimented Blueberry. She's a decent little dog, and as I always say, she's lucky she's pretty!

@Bupster There is absolutely no reason to feel daft using a dog pram. 😝

@YorkshireFelix For some reason, I had it in my head that toilet training only took two weeks. So by week three of standing out in the freezing cold, I got very frustrated. Once I got over my unrealistic expectations, it was a lot better. It was still annoying that I took her for a wee before I sat down to eat and she'd still wee on the carpet during dinner.

I used a buggy for puppy P. She wasn't able to walk for as long as my older dog for months, so she'd walk for some of the time and go in a pushchair for the rest. She also went into town once a week and into shops in it.
I now have one for foster dog, as she can only manage 20 - 30 minutes walking.
They're big business nowadays. So you might have felt daft a few years ago, but they are much more accepted now.

@BlueberryPup only rarely these days! Sadly 4 dogs and two near teenagers keeps my hands full 😃but very happy for you to pick my brains - @CoubousAndTourmalet is also great with advice as well (I’ve said before but I’m a bit of a Nepo baby - as my DDs say - as DMum bred and showed before me, so I grew up with it)!

Dont worry about slow maturity though! I took his total twatness to crufts this year and he barked from 6am to 6pm, including when he was being handled. He just got so overstimulated it was like managing a hyena crossed with a Panda (manic grin but no brain cells and huge) 😄

Blueberry is stunning though! I’m going to show my ignorance though…is she a collie or an Aussie? Her markings are more reminiscent of Aussies (at least the ones I’ve seen) but her face almost says Collie…

@LandSharksAnonymous You're getting confused by her biggest structural flaw, haha!
Blueberry is a Miniature American Shepherd (previously "mini Aussie") who lacks underjaw, giving her snout the collielike appearance. She looks a lot more typey when panting. (Face picture is her birthday treat, stack is from 11 months old). Can't wait for her to develop further seeing as our competitors look like adults at 9 months old!

I've got it in my head that she might be an American Shepherd, @LandSharksAnonymous but I could be wrong.

I don't honestly know what I could say about showing that would be useful, because outside of the UK it is done so differently. And, dare I say it, more professionally. Whole different world to showing at Harewood or Darlington...

Edited to say - whoops, been answered while I was doing one finger typing.

@CoubousAndTourmalet we were both sort of right and sort of wrong!

@BlueberryPup that makes sense! There’s something ‘off’ (for lack of a better word) about her proportions that made me think ‘Aussie but maybe a collie’ if she’s a Mini that explains it! She’s absolutely stunning. Is she has high-energy as the regular Aussie? I remember someone telling me Minis are brilliant at doggy dancing…

@CoubousAndTourmalet yes, this is what I suspected, especially regarding grooming. Blueberry has gone through two summers in a row and a Brazilian winter is quite pitiful, so she hasn't got much undercoat yet and while she comes out gorgeous from the bath, most of the volume created is lost in 30 minutes or so. And you guys in the UK take the "no products" rule seriously, whereas I keep throwing chalk at Blueberry. I really wish more countries followed the UK and Europe's model, tbh. More owner handlers and a natural presentation must make for a much more natural atmosphere.

@LandSharksAnonymous because the breed is quite new, there's a massive difference in, well, everything, but definitely in energy levels too. I've heard very well known and successful breeders saying "people want the aussie look in a lazy dog, so that's what I breed for" and I also know breeders who, while breeding for show, will test puppies in stock before selecting their keepers.
Blueberry is fully show line with a herding instinct that I'd love to put to the test. Energy wise, yes, I would consider her high energy, but with a pretty amazing off switch. I work in the family business so she comes to work with me in mornings, naps in the afternoon and goes to a dog park (I am aware of the risks and wish to proceed, haha) for at least an hour once she wakes up. Yesterday Blueberry was particularly excited and played with 4 dogs in a row until they couldn't handle it anymore. She could easily do without her morning routine as most of it is car rides/naps/potty breaks, but the dog park is the highlight of her day. Worth noting it isn't a real dog park (we don't have those here) but just a green area many people take their dogs to, so duly nicknamed Dog Park. This keeps irresponsible owners to a minimum.
Anyway, I'm a rambler. To sum it up, yes, Blueberry is more work than your average ShihTzu or Pomeranian, but frankly I enjoy 90% of the extra attention she demanda and I genuinely don't know how I would be coping without her as it's been some quite slow months at work and everything social I've attended this year has to do either with dogs, or with people I met through dogs.

We've never been part of the regular show circuit @BlueberryPup @LandSharksAnonymous . Very much just an occasional outdoor Championship show, a few Ag Soc's and a couple of Pyrenean club shows. I have to admit that we always showed them au naturel. We don't bath them 😱 Most PMD are bathed for showing but we just brush and brush. I don't like what bathing does to their coats.
That's just a me thing, for which I make no apology. My preference is for a rugged dog that looks as if it could go straight out and work. I'm not saying that is right for everyone, but it was behind our decision not to do Crufts although three of the boys did qualify.

@BlueberryPup oh that's lovely! I love it when dogs get people out and about and doing things 😁Interesting that they're breeding them to be slightly more docile - although I suppose you can only have so many breeds with a drive like a full grown Aussie!

@CoubousAndTourmalet agree with you on the rugged dog point! Twatdog dogs rugged very well and definitely looks his best when he's not nicely clipped.