owners of 'big' dogs, can you talk to me please

[bunnyfears]

I have an 18 month old rottweiler. she is a big smooch. she loves all other dogs and most people. her recall is 98% great.

she does 3 things that are undesirable...

1. she will bark at some passersby if she is sat in the car (waiting to leave). I can live with this

2. if a man takes her by suprise, she will bark. so for example, appearing out of the bushes, in the woods etc. I'm pretty ok with this also, because we got her for safety having encountered too many weird men out walking/intruder (me and 3 daughters)

3. she will chase after male runners and bark 😬...this is the one that is getting us into trouble. it's not aggressive but it definitely sounds aggressive if you don't really know dogs. many people are great, stop running, give her a fuss and it diffuses into nothing. but as you can imagine, some people are furious. I don't really want to keep her on a lead because 1) it happens maybe once a fortnight (haven't worked out what it is about some men that brings this response as opposed to others that she ignores or can be distracted from and 2) it's ot actually aggressive

because it's not consistent I'm at a bit of a loss

interested in other people's experiences and how they have dealt with inconsistent/occasional unwanted behaviours

I have giant breed dogs (70kg) and a German shepherd.

If you choose to own a large or intimidating breed it’s your responsibility to make sure it’s a perfect ambassador of the breed. Don’t give anyone the opportunity to say otherwise, your making it harder for the rest of us and feeding into the opinion that they are all bad.

Consult a trainer but in the mean time the more she practices this behaviour the more she will do it. It becomes an adrenaline rush for them so the more she gets that ‘rush’ of the chase the harder it will be to train it out. Get her on a lead and go back to basics.

As a side note the dangerous dogs act can prosecute you for a dog just barking. A person just needs to feel intimidated for a report to be issued. It’s part of my job to deal with these situations and dogs don’t have to bite to be deemed aggressive. Protect your dog if you don’t care about protecting someone else.

So she doesn't then
Unfortunately she needs to be on a lead, even chasing 1 runner is 1 too many.
And I mean that to keep your dog safe as much as anyone else.

Not male, but I certainly wouldn't break off from running to 'fuss' a Rottweiler that had come after me. I'd be scared and pissed off. I think you should keep her on a lead, but take the advice above about desensitising.

You absolutely cannot allow this, and need to train a more solid recall. You can use a long line in the meantime (not a retractable lead) to give her freedom but allow you to get her under control when you need to. For a recall to be solid, it needs to be proofed in lots of situations. You should really focus on recall practice, in lots of different situations, including set ups where runners appear, until you're confident in your recall. Try the book Total Recall by Pippa Mattinson for some tips to start, and I would also suggest finding a good trainer. When looking for a trainer - recommend you take a good look at other client reviews and evidence of dealing with similar behaviours. I'd also suggest looking at how the trainers own dogs behave. There are an increasing number of trainers who are really great at social media, but lack the real life skills to back it up.

”because we got her for safety having encountered too many weird men out walking/intruder (me and 3 daughters)”

”I AM hypervigilant for runners“

I suspect you have subconsciously trained your dog, a guarding breed, to be protective and anxious in these situations. You need to look for a professional trainer to work on this.

I walk a very small terrier while baby carrying every day and I absolutely hate people who have big dogs off their lead, it scares my dog and it’s so difficult when I’ve got baby too. My dad is a vet has been for forty years and he thinks all dogs should be kept on a lead. Keep your dog on a lead!!!!

I bloody love Rottweilers and would love to fuss her but if she ran after me barking when I had my little girl with me I would absolutely shit myself and prepare to defend.
She needs more training.
Keep her on lead in public until her recall is 100%, the barking has stopped and the chasing of strangers has stopped.
You’re putting her at risk of being seized as a dangerous dog.

If they say they feared being attacked by a Rotty you'd be in trouble, and rightly so. Dog may event be taken from you, but you would probably get it back,.

You have to keep her on a lead.

It doesn't matter how often it is. Your responsibility is to make sure it doesn't happen. Put her on a lead.

I don't think op will be back after the absolute roasting she's received. Hopefully she'll listen to the replies and put her dog on a lead

This thread is quite sad , how deluded and entitled is the op, 6 pages of replies, lots of really sensible advice and absolutely everyone in agreement that this is unacceptable and avoidable behaviour that could end in tears, and yet she is still the one who knows best !

Sad thing is that it's the dog who will end up in trouble

Lol then you train her on her recall, my family have always owned rottweilers but people see a big, powerful dog and rightfully so can be scared if they don't know them, you need to have perfect recall over such a powerful animal.

Keep her on a lead until she can sit or lie down and ignore runners. Work on it consistently. I have several dogs and prioritize this. The last thing you need is this turning into a prey drive. Or someone hurting your dog and then having to deal with possible fear-aggression. I know someone with a large breed that is out of control and minimal attempts are made to control it. It has really isolated their young children as most kids are not allowed to go to the house.

A dog as large and potentially dangerous as a Rottweiler should always be on a lead in public places. I’m not sure where you live to have to feel afraid of people but I have spent most of my life afraid of dogs and have been working hard to face that fear but honestly I would cross the road if near a dog like a Rottweiler (some guy brings a Rottweiler puppy to an indoor group I go to which I find really selfish ). I don’t mind dogs being off lead if they are close to their owner and not going to go near others but is absolutely bothers me if a dog off the lead approaches me and that is any size dog.

I've been the runner- bitten on the arm by a dog who the owner 100% assured me was normally friendly, had never done anything like it before etc etc. It was entirely unprovoked- I was running along minding my own business, dog ran up out of nowhere, full on bit me on the forearm. Luckily I was by a kids play park and was able to jump a fence to get to safety, luckily it wasn't a child or elderly person it went for. Please please don't think that because you think it is friendly it's not a problem, and never will be- please keep it on a lead...

If you’re in the UK under the dangerous dogs act technically your dog is off lead and ‘out of control’ even if for a few seconds which could get you into a spot of trouble.
I say this as massive dog lover and I’ve had multiple dogs of all sizes, fostered for a rescue and worked within the animal care industry.
If she chased a runner who panicked, fell over and injured themselves they could claim against your insurance who may not cover you, as you know she chases runners.
A lot of secure fields have popped up all over the place that can be hired for your personal use, we have 3 within a 40 minute drive and have used them for various dogs over the years who have had a variety of issues whilst we worked on the behaviours.
Sadly many people will judge her purely based on her breed, so will be less tolerant then if she were a small dog.
We have 4 dogs at the moment 2 large, one medium and one small. The smallest (a rescue) has terrier in her and will chase joggers, birds etc but not always and we’ve made huge leaps with her using clicker training etc but I still don’t trust her so she has to stay on the lead. People witness her behaviour and laugh and make a joke about ‘little dog syndrome’ I guarantee if she was a rottie, dobie etc people wouldn’t laugh.
I would advise seeking a positive reward, qualified trainer in your area who can work with you and her, we found the clicker worked best for ours, but we’ve had dogs that respond better to other aids like a gun dog whistle etc but until you can be sure you’ve cracked it, for her sake I wouldn’t be letting her off lead.

I wouldn't be impressed or happy..I'd suggest you approach a dog behaviourist, rather than Mumsnet for a suggestion!

Have you tried Whistle recall? Get an acme whistle at the correct frequency for the breed. Go to a field and train with high value treats. The nature of the whistle does stop them in their tracks and the promise of a decent treat brings them back. You could also use a long training lead until you get the recall 100%, that way he has the freedom but you have got more leeway to pull him back if he runs. Sometimes it’s going back to basics a bit.

she will chase after male runners and bark 😬...this is the one that is getting us into trouble. it's not aggressive but it definitely sounds aggressive if you don't really know dogs. many people are great, stop running, give her a fuss and it diffuses into nothing. but as you can imagine, some people are furious.

Runners who stop and give her a fuss are not great, they are just doing what suits and benefits you. Runners who are furious (as I would be) are fully entitled to be angry, upset and scared.

I'm fed up with some dog owners telling me their (out of control) dog just wants to play and if I stop running the dog will calm down.

I understand that being out of the fields is a chance to take the dog off the lead, but unless it has 100% recall then I'm afraid it has to be kept on the lead on where the public are.

Thank you for trying to resolve the problem.

Most dog owners are very courteous and we all enjoy sharing the footpaths.

but surely OP you don't want a dog warden to visit you? You wouldn't want to risk things escalating to that level? Also you definitely can still report a barking dog. I reported an upstairs neighbour in a flat (20 years ago) who had a husky that howled all day while they were at work (I had a newborn baby) & the dog was rehomed/sold after a short while 🤷‍♀️ If lots of people complain I'm sure they look into it eventually

she will chase after male runners and bark 😬.

And why are you grinning? It's not funny.

I've heard so many stories of off-lead dogs biting other dogs or people that I'm starting to think dogs should be kept on the lead all of the time tbh. There are just too many dogs out there these days. If a big dog chased me while I was out running I'd be scared & also very cross. In busy places (my local country park for example), only more selfish people now let their dogs off the lead and the sensible folk have them on-lead. We have weekly occurrences of dog attacks round here. I like dogs but they are everywhere & I've stepped in dog poo 3 times (on pavements in the dark) in the last month so I'm rapidly going off irresponsible dog owners!

Big dog owner here. These issues are varied, the one that's most serious is barking at men on walks. This is a fear response and fear=reactivity. If you allow this to go on your dog could be a real danger. It's not an issue of 'oh we wanted a dog for protection', your breed will do that in the home regardless, outside the house this needs to be managed. I'd say this warrants a behaviourist to assess, but counterconditioning is easy enough if you apply it correctly. As I expect you won't seem help from a behaviourist (as you've come to Mumsnet...) please look into counterconditioning techniques to make.you dog feel comfortable in the presence of passing men who aren't actually a treat.

The barking in the car is normal anxiety to what is quite a scary experience for dogs. Remember they don't have any appreciation that you're probably going somewhere nice and they've not just been locked away forever. Either work on getting them comfortable in small spaces by crate training. Or just avoid the situation altogether because it's not unreasonable your dog would be happy in that situation. Crate training is useful incase your dog ever has surgery etc. but you have bigger reactivity issues to resolve.

The chasing after runners can be resolved. Work on impulse control (Google exercises) and train a command to get your dog to disengage. This is very easy to do. But if you're serious about these issues a good behaviourist will have them resolved in a few sessions. In the meantime you need your dog on a lead. Chasing is very rewarding behaviour for dogs and the more they do to the more likely they are to do it again.

Honestly some of the responses on here are ridiculous. The OP knows it’s unwanted and is asking for advice on HOW to train! Not to be told over and over that it shouldn’t be happening!

OP. Invest in a long line and go back to basics with recall. Keep her on the long line 100% of the time whilst you do this.
Train and reward a solid ‘come’ response. Whilst on the long line, practice and reinforce it, 1st with limited distractions and moving up to things like people, other dogs etc.
when you use the command, gently pull her back on the long line over and over, until you don’t need to do this anymore.
When the ‘come’ command is 100% move her up to exposure to runners. Still on the long line, continue to reinforce. She must realise that when you say ‘come’ she comes. You may need to go back to small tugs to get her attention.
Never ask her more than once. Small tug.

Hope that helps!