Need a handhold/advice

[4legsgood39]

After a lot of thought about what we could offer a dog and carefully considering what breed would be a good fit, we adopted a 12 week puppy from a reputable rescue charity. (We’d previously been turned down for various dogs, rightly, because the charity felt we couldn’t meet their more complex needs.)

Unfortunately our pup has had a lot of behavioural issues (plus they and we have been unlucky in getting various nasty infections since the adoption, although now sorted thankfully.) She isn’t anything like typical for her breed-more like a working dog in that she needs about 10 hours stimulation/attention a day, very high energy and not at all east going.

We’ve been trying really hard, spending lots of time and money on training, behavioural help, walks, interesting toys, and some doggy daycare to help keep us sane (she adores the family she goes to and literally leaps into their arms when they come to pick her up.)

We thought maybe it was us, although working with a behaviourist from the charity who has done various tests, they have said she is way over the “normal” dog levels for anxiety and frustration, is right at the extreme end, and so it’s no wonder we’ve been finding things hard.

I realise we were a bit niaive but are first time puppy owners and we were upfront about our situation and limitations-one of us can nearly always be around but we both work part-time, live in a small-ish flat (with garden and near parks) and I have a health condition which limits my energy levels. We’ve found out since adopting that it’s well-known, and was even something someone from the charity said to us after the adoption, that puppies with her start in life (breeding in bad conditions) are much more likely to develop these sorts of issues.

We’re working on various strategies to help our puppy self-soothe and may have to look into medication for a short time to bring down her anxiety. She’s scared of many things and is barking for hours a day as she’s so anxious and sound sensitive.

Behaviourist is now saying it could be another 6-8 months before she calms down as she’s going into teenhood.

Just feeling worried how we are going to cope as the stress and amount of time we’re spending on training etc. is causing arguments. Also feeling guilty and sad-if we’d been given a heads up on this before we adopted we might not hade gone ahead and she could have gone to a better equipped home. Or at least we could have been prepared and got support in place sooner. We both adore her and really don’t want to rehome her, especially as assuming that would be difficult now as she has known issues?

Any encouragement or advice would be very welcome.

Puppies can be very hyper if they're overstimulated and over tired. Do you make sure that they have set rest times? I've got a sprocker who was a nightmare in the first months as she didn't have an off button. We used a crate in the end to enforce rest and she was so much better with it.

We did puppy classes which really reinforced the message about too much exercise.

Puppies are hard work. Some more than others. They are really variable. Mine was really horrible. Great breeding and start in life and I’m an agility trainer. I know what I am doing!

They do improve. Mine is 2 now and starting to turn into a nice dog. Mostly. But she’s still a handful. More than I’d expect for her breed but it’s just the way she is and I suspect always will be. Totally different to our last dog who was a rescue with a troubled past.

Hang in there. It does get better. Huge sympathies though and a hand hold as I know how hard it can be.

How old is she now? As PP said, puppies need lots of rest and can be hyper when over stimulated. Mine have all been crate trained and had enforced crate naps through the day.

Do you use licky mats, stuffed kongs etc? You can use up a lot of her food allowance in the kongs (soak dry food, stuff kong, freeze it) this helps them to relax.

Thanks everyone for your messages and kind words. Yes, she’s definitely not sleeping enough so we’ve really been focused on that. Extra walks to tire her and then “enforced” down time, with chews and kongs or licky things to help her calm down. Some progress!

10 hours of stimulation? That seems a lot for a young dog.

This is a bit left field, but you consider a homeopathic vet to help with calming and anxiety reduction.

Yes she has no off button, as a previous poster said about their pup. She’s 8 months and we’re really trying to work on making sure she gets enough rest end sleep. We think it’s partly anxiety that stops her sleeping and keeps on the go.

Bless you, and her. How old is she, what breed, and what kind of walks does she have? I wonder if the type of exercise she is having isn't helping, as, though it sounds odd, more exercise can hype them up more, and particular kinds of walks/activities done on walks can really exacerbate certain characteristics. As can more stuff to do at home: settling isn't just about getting them to lie down with a chew – though these have their place – as they're still doing something. You want settling with no enrichment ideally too.

That’s interesting. Have you used one/know of any positive stories?

X-post, I now see she's 8 months!

What breed op?

She’s 8 months, definitely part bichon but we’re not sure of the breed of the father. Yes, it’s a tricky one. We think the walks are pretty stimulating so are working on enforced rests after each walk. We’d love her to settle with no enrichment so she gets a proper rest but this has been the real struggle

Part bichon but possibly a cross. As she’s a rescue we don’t know the breed of the father

Oh that’s a horrible age. Hormones raging and still so young. We did lots of calming things like sniffing games and we also rewarded calm behaviour. So if she flopped down we’d treat her. That really does work long term. Personally enforced rest I don’t find helpful but managing the environment so they are forced to stop worked well. Boring boring boring.

We’ve been getting ready for Christmas today and our youngster hasn’t stopped which has resulted in having a break down when I tried to pop to the car and biting me when I was trying to do something. We finished and sat down to make things very boring. She’s now collapsed in a heap exhausted. I know tomorrow will be a better day! I miss my last stable calm adult dog but secretly remember when she was the same as an adolescent and young adult.

We planned our 2nd pup very carefully OP, but I remember when she was 6 months feeling incredibly low about it all and wondering what on earth we'd done. She's a very nervous anxious dog, took forever to toilet train and it took the 3rd session at puppy classes for her to come out from under the chairs. I have tried a few more natural treatments and found the Nutripaw calming tablets work really well for her. https://nutri-paw.com/collections/calming-behaviour/products/calming-treats and these can be used from 12 weeks onwards. If you do try them, it took a good 6 weeks to see any effect but having run out once, we realised that they really were working!

Other things that help are leaving one of your t shirts/clothes you've worn in their crate/bed so it's a comforting smell; keeping to a routine; and not overwhelming them with busy places, we had to find new walks where there was less noise and we met fewer dogs. In fact even though she's now 6, we still walk off the beaten path. Another good way to settle a dog that's anxious about you leaving is to keep coming in and out the door, we used to go out the front door and in through the back, leaving a few more minutes each time until she stopped reacting to us leaving.

10hrs of stimulation seems way too much for a young puppy. We have a nearly 7mo GSP puppy (so super high energy) and he’d be an absolute nightmare if he were getting that much stimulation.

Lots of people make the mistake of thinking extra walks will tire a puppy out, when actually at that age mental stimulation is just as important as physical activity. We tend to stick to the 5mins of exercise for every month of age rule, as it’s so important not to overdo it at this age when they’re joints and ligaments are still forming.

1. Talk to your vet and ask about medication. High anxiety is absolutely torturous for a dog, and hugely impedes learning and rest. I would think of starting a dog like this on something like fluoxetine which is ultra-low side effect and suitable for longterm use. You should see the effect in 3-6 weeks.

A behaviourist who is also a vet would be ideal for you.

1. You must realise that this dog is never, ever going to become a relaxed and mellow animal. Not with maturity, not with behaviour strategies, not with medication, not with training, not with tiptoeing around her. She can improve and you could reach a manageable plane but do not expect a big change.
2. If you feel like you cannot cope with 15 years of working around a highly anxious animal, with the restrictions that brings - btw I absolutely would not, could not - then consider returning her to the "rescue" agency. I place "rescue" in inverted commas because as a vet I regularly see supposedly well- motivated organizations foisting wildly unsuitable, often distressed and dangerous animals upon well-intentioned people with no thought for the practicality or humanity of it.
3. Think hard. Good luck.

I swear I numbered the above points correctly! [eyeroll]

Sigh. Chews and Kongs and ‘down time’ do not mix. You’re giving your dog food…which gives them energy. That’s partly why your dog won’t tire. It’s like shoving sweets at a toddler and asking them to be quiet.

8 months is a grim age - but giving the dog too much stimulation, including food games and exercise, will make it worse!

10 hours is crazy, I can't see how you can possibly provide that. I have bichons and was a dog trainer for many years. You wouldn't be expected to provide 10 hours for a working malinois!
Have you tried scentwork of any kind? It is brain tiring and relaxing. Frozen kongs, lickimats etc can also be calming. Trying to physically wear dogs out just gets you an uber fit dog (although there is zero science supporting the 5 minutes exercise per month rule either). Tweaking walks so they are more sniffy in quieter areas, rather than loads of running and stimulation might help too
If you don't feel you are making progress within the next couple of months I would ask for a referral for a veterinary behaviourist, insurance should cover that.
I'm really angry that the rescue didn't prepare you for this so you could have made an informed decision. I'm hearing so many similar stories and whilst I am well aware of the stresses they are under forgetting/ommitting/lying/phrasing things overly positively really isn't fair on the dog or the adopter. I'm all for making all breeders behave responsibly but frankly some shelters and rescue orgs need to take a good hard look at themselves.

Oh yes absolutely 10 hours is way too much and we’re actively trying to get her to rest and sleep more, but at the moment that seems to be her “natural” level of wanting to be active.

The walks is really tricky. The behaviourist has said if it helps to tire her out then stick with it for now, but agree it’s not ideal, seems to be much more walking than ideally she would have

Thank you for your advice and kind words. Yes, we’re going to try very hard to get to a sustainable place. Just seems an endless journey atm. We haven’t even been able to start on working on the separation anxiety. She wants us both around all the time and is on high alert otherwise, and
us bathing and showering is a nightmare too as she doesn’t like the side of the bath being between us 😥

I know, I’m not too happy about all the chews and treats. As she’s so worked up the behaviours has said she has to do
licking and chewing to calm down, and treats after doing tricks to distract her. But not ideal

Yes she loves scent work so we’re building that in, and good idea on the sniffy walks.

So interesting but also sad that there are other stories. Have you heard similar to ours? From the big rescue charities?

If it is as severe as all that, this sounds a mission impossible. I will be astonished (but delighted) if you succeed in getting to that sustainable place.