Adolescent Dog Survival Thread - Bark the Herald, furry angels sing!

[YorkshireFelix]

New thread to get us through the festive season! Angelic and naughty teenage pups all welcome

Driving a wedge between me and my husband as usual😅
I meant to add a picture i will add it below 😅

Here he is

aww bless him @CaptainBeanThief . I've just caught up with the thread, sorry for everyone's trials and tribulations over Christmas. We had a few of our own, LittleDog2 clearly had a mouth "problem" the week before xmas, of course the little sod wouldn't let the vet have a look - so it required GA to see if he'd got a broken tooth (dental not being covered by insurance of course) £900+ later his teeth were fine, but they did a tartar removal anyway, he's got a couple of lesions at the back of his mouth - sample have been sent for biopsy.

I'm hoping that because it's clearly not dental some of the cost will be covered by insurance - his teeth were in good nick and he wouldn't;t have warranted the GA apart from the discomfort caused by the lesions.

I had assumed he'd just had a bash playing with Libi, he doesn't "do" sticks" either, so goodness only knows what has caused these, fingers crossed it's nothing sinister. He's on metacam, I've got antibiotics in case he gets an infection, but am holding off as I've been working really hard, with a holistic vet, to get his gut microbiome stronger to try and help his seasonal allergies.....

Libi is joining the other boys and girls in adolescence - from "turning on a sixpence" in recall, she is giving me "the look". She is also disappearing into the garden at silly O'clock at night, on the pretext of wanting the toilet, but actually just wants to disappear into the bushes and have a good old mooch around and eat "stuff" which then gets thrown up on my bedroom floor in the early hours.

Add that to the incontinent old terrier and even the fab carpet cleaner is not quite removing the stains - previous owners put down a thick shag cream carpet throughout 😱 - they also had a dog, but as they had dog doors into the garage and shed I reckon house time was strictly controlled. When I get round to redecorating its going to be solid floors and washable rugs......

@LibisMum hopefully it's nothing sinister and heals up quickly. £900 is a stinger!! I hope the insurance agrees to cover some of it.

Vinny had a great time at MIL house over Xmas. He got on with their dogs great again. They sleep in the utility room and the first two nights he wasn't happy about it but was quiet as a mouse after that. On our last night my DH went in to get something before we went to bed, and all three dogs were curled up together sleeping on the bed 🥺

We got home yesterday and let him sleep on the sofa outside of the crate for the first time at home. I was hoping it would mean he would sleep longer but he still woke me up early. I think he preferred it though so we might carry it on.

Hope everyone is doing well!

Oh gosh @LibisMum , that sounds like a worry with your little one. I hope he's okay. Sometimes oral issues can be quite serious (not going into detail, suffice to say we lost a cat that way). Fingers crossed that he's just picked up something sharp without you noticing and it will heal quickly.

It does sound as if Libi is joining the rest of the naughty gang over here so you'll have your work cut out in the coming months! Sympathies - a certain someone with a cheesy name also has a soil and grass eating habit that frequently results in a 4am vomiting session 😬

Hi @YorkshireFelix Hope you had a nice break.

It sounds as if Vinny has a lovely bond with your MIL's dogs if they actually let him share their bed. That is so sweet. He does seem to be very trustworthy from what you've said, so just see how it goes with the free range sleeping.

Everything is business as usual here; persistent drizzle and fog meaning a lot of pavement walks but Brie isn't demanding in that regard so we just get out when we can. She turned 9 months yesterday.

Happy 9 months Brie! We just did a woodland walk and it wasn't as soggy as I'd expected. It just seems to be really foggy and grey here rather than wet.

I don't know if Vinny is just a wuss but we've just had two instances on our walk of off lead dogs chasing him around and terrifying him. One was a little terrier type thing that just wouldn't leave him alone and the owners did absolutely nothing to try and recall him, then the other was another spaniel who obviously wanted to play but Vinny doesn't like being chased and got really scared. He started barking and snapping at the other dog towards the end as he was terrified and the other dog just wouldn't go back to his owner. I thought it was going to end up in a fight!

He always sticks right by me when this happens and doesn't run off, and it's so frustrating when the other dogs just won't let up. I could have booted that spaniel into the face of the sun earlier as it just did not get the message that V didn't like it. And the owner was just meekly shouting it and not actually chasing after/trying to grab it which is what I'd have done as it was VERY obvious Vinny wasn't happy.

What is the best thing to do in this situation? I always call V to me and he stays by my legs, but what do I do then if the other dog wont piss off? I don't know if it's because he's not been exposed to that sort of 'play' before and needs more doggy friends, or if it's the other dogs that are the problem.

@YorkshireFelix
I do feel Vinnie needs "exposing" to abit more than staying beside you, not that other dogs chasing him and badgering him like that is every ok.
It should always be done on his terms and what you / him feel comfortable with.
I think the end goal with our dogs is to raise them to be confident and comfortable with all types of play and to be independent to an extent and IMO should he exposed to a variety of different situations bad and good so he can learn from them.
Although in this case I don't agree with their owners not calling their dogs back as Vinnie was visibly uncomfortable however - good job for not picking him up and just calling him back, if this happens just carry on with on your walk and hopefully the other dog will piss off.

Thank you, I do think he needs to mix a bit more with other dogs but I don't really know how as I don't really know anyone else with a playful younger dog. He does like other dogs but seems to only really like the calm ones who have a bit of a sniff and then carry on. It's when they start chasing him that he panics and gets scared, but I know they only want to play. I wish he could understand English so I could just explain to him 😂

Start slowly - definitely,
When I got Milo - Jesus he was a nervous wreck he did live on a farm outside though, but the more social interaction I did the better, I left him to it, the more off lead I did ( despite his dickhead antics) the more he got used to situations and other dogs approaching him,
If he approaches other dogs, I just beckon him along and he follows,
I remember he was ON LEAD having a sniff and another cocker from across the park ( he was a few months younger) saw Milo a Mile off ( Milo was none the wiser) and this dog ruby tackled Milo to the ground, he loved it - he didn't precieve it as danger because it wasnt.
I have no doubt in my mind that if it was a dangerous encounter he would know ( I also wouldn't put him in one) but as he has been put in controlled situations he knows how to act accordingly.
Sorry I'm rambling but I hope you get my point.
The more you do with Vinny the more he will get used to ALL type of play.
Also, if Milo is getting too much with play I have no issues with him getting "told off" and if another dog is getting too much and Milo "tells off" their dog I will never apologise
😂

Our Christmas was very low key, not all that different to a regular weekend for the dogs.

@YorkshireFelix - younger pup is scared of most other dogs if they try and initiate any sort of play with her. We've never really encountered very rude, persistent dogs fortunately so I just move her on. She can happily coexist and go on a walk with all sorts of other dogs and is reasonably confident in a lot of other situations so it's not something that I'm worried about. I don't think they need to be comfortable with all types of play, and well mannered dogs should pick up on when their playfulness isn't wanted/reciprocated.

I have him off lead every day and most dogs he either now comes back to me and keeps walking on, or will have a polite sniff and carry on. He does actually like other dogs but it's when they start chasing is when he gets scared.

With the persistent spaniel I kept walking and trying to move us on but it just kept following/running full pelt at Vinny trying to chase him, and didn't take the hint when V was barking at him to back off.

Maybe we were just unlucky as the majority of dogs we encounter on the route we do are calm or generally not interested.

For what it's worth I think you are doing a brilliant job with Vinny, you are raising him to be a well rounded dog
I am only giving you my opinion and what worked for me so just take it at face value, some dogs especially spaniels can be persistent and they are annoying and I do think the owner should have intervened.

Thank you that's so kind of you to say! I think I am just pissed off they didn't really try and do anything about it but wasn't sure if it was our fault for him not liking that type of play, which I know is perfectly normal, if you see what I mean.

He was desperate to play with MIL 2 year old springer and was doing that thing where they kind of jump then go flat to the floor with paws stretched out, but he was having none of it. He lives with an old man cocker so I think he sees V as the annoying little cousin 😄

Bill has turned into one of those persistent little sods with certain dogs - I don't know what it is that switches his brain and ears off, but he will not recall now if he's found a dog that won't play even when he barks. It's almost always younger puppies that don't have a lot of play experience and therefore don't respond in the way he expects. So I have to get him on a lead around any strange dog who looks like they might be younger than him - and sometimes I don't manage it in time, e.g. in the dog park where all the other dogs are off lead and mostly know each other. When he's on lead, he has perfect manners - so I'm hoping it's partly an adolescent, over-hyped-up thing, and he'll grow out of it.

Therefore, on behalf of all pain-in-the-arse, persistent spaniels and their hopeless-seeming owners, I apologise, @YorkshireFelix - I think I've made the mistake of socialising him largely with confident dogs, and he just doesn't understand younger puppies who (a) don't play and (b) don't tell him to fuck off. It is absolutely our responsibility to sort our dogs out, though, and not yours or your dog.

Again, speaking as the owner of a playground bully, it is quite helpful when people can grab hold of Bill's harness - his ears completely shut down in these incidents, and he has absolutely no recall at all, despite us training recall daily. Though I know that's quite an intimidating thing to do, it might be possible with annoying spaniels - and would also put you between the spaniel and V, which is probably better than lifting him out of the way.

@Bupster
It is most definitely adolescent dickhead-ness.
Milo when he was younger occasionally would have been a pest -
Wed just walk the opposite way saying Milo come and he would follow.
Adolescents are dickheads sometimes and Milo still has massive moments.
Plus you put him on his lead in anticipation and still try when he decides he's not listening.
They honestly make us look like we have put 0 training into our dogs whatsoever 😝

Seasons greetings, one and all. Hope you all had a lovely festive period, for those who celebrate – and if you don’t that not celebrating was just as nice too.

Happy nine months to Princess Brie! @CoubousAndTourmalet xxx

There was another thread here the other day about a nervous spaniel pup being scared of other dogs though she was much younger, @YorkshireFelix, and on there I said just to breeze on through it, which I’d say again to you and V.

I have no experience of scared dogs as pupsy is very bold, but if we are bothered by rude offlead dogs, which we sometimes are, I tend to put myself between them, say ‘no, goodbye’ loudly, and keep on moving, chatting away happily to pupsy so she doesn't suspect anything is up. Sometimes if we're followed I ask pupsy to heel and become 'boring' and they tend to go away again. I advocate for her, always, even if she’s not fussed, but mainly I advocate for myself as I don't want every dog in the world coming up to us, not least as I'm not always feeling human chatty and just want to listen to my podcast! There is a very rude jackapoo near us that won't leave her alone if he has the chance and one day in the summer I lost the plot when we were training in a quiet corner of a field and shouted at his owner to ‘get him away from her’. Now that chap takes a wide berth of both of us, and I’m grateful – it’s horrible to feel any animosity locally but he’s irresponsible and has never bothered training any proper recall.

I think advocating for V is all you can do. Not all owners are good. Many are braindead or distracted or simply just do not care if they put their dog in a situation where it might get hurt – or worse still even recognise that that situation could even arise. I think a lot of it is the last one tbh: they don’t even think. There’s a girl I follow on Insta that I’ll send you a link to as she has done loads of ‘look at these stupid dogs without recall’ videos which might help or at least give you a laugh. She has taught a ‘switch’ cue to her dogs as you’ll see so that when they’re bothered by rude dogs she can move them away and it’s really effective.

You are very welcome to borrow pupsy any time to give V some playtime/walking time with another confident dog who will match his play style. We went to Clumber today with some friends and had a wild time and I’m always happy to drive up there – with or without @Bupster and her gorgeous teenage loon! It’s about 40 mins from us. I thought of @tizwozliz and her girls as we drove past Thoresby!

100pc agree with @CaptainBeanThief – they should be confident and a bit independent but equally they shouldn’t have to be harassed by rude dogs and that’s us on to advocate for them and also make sure our dogs aren’t rude to others. Pupsy loves chasing and pouncing and being chased and being pounced on, as Bupster and Bill know. She will make a few little playful woofs as a ‘come on then!!’ gesture sometimes and it’s lovely to watch. As long as it is consensual and the playtime roles switch round back and forth it’s all good in my book.

@Bupster I definitely wouldn't want to kick Bill into the face of the sun so I apologise for saying that about the other dog 😂😂😂

I did wonder about trying to grab him myself but wasn't sure if it was really frowned upon. He was friendly but just wasn't getting the message at all. I didn't think they were local as we get a lot of tourists here and I've not seen them before, but my DH said it's the same people who kept throwing a ball in his direction when he was trying to train Vinny on the playing field, despite there being a huge amount of space with no one else there. I think they are just a bit thoughtless to be honest. At least you do try and recall/put him on his lead rather than sauntering over meekly saying his name like the owners today...

Thank you for the link, I will watch before I go to bed.

I have literally missed you by a day as I am down at my parents tomorrow and hopefully walking V and their aloof greyhound at Clumber if I can get down early enough. Greyhound is going to be so pissed off because V irritates her by just existing in her vicinity and breathing the same air 😂

I agree that advocating for him is all I can do. I think I just panicked a bit as he's been chased around and scared before but usually the dog has backed off after a few minutes, but this felt like it went on forever and I didn't know what to do. I will definitely give them a wide berth if I bump into them again.

Late to this thread (in part, because I was busy mouthing off and completely failing to be funny on the loony ones yesterday 🙄)

You all know me well enough to expect a long rambling comment that has little relevance to anyone else's situation but here's my contribution.

I used to be very tolerant and polite about loose dogs running up, we would try to avoid situations because that is our way. However, all that changed when Algy was attacked and injured/traumatised at 16 weeks old. There was lasting damage for him and for me and I became dog phobic to the extent that in 7 years I never once walked him by myself. This had nothing to do with his behaviour, he was not aggressive, it was entirely down to my fear of dogs.

When Brie first started going out I was terrified but I toughed it out. In part because I was out to prove a point to myself and my chap, in part because female PMD are more independent/dominant/assertive than males.

Now she's big I have less fear. She could probably hold her own against all but a Bully, Cane Corso or Kangal if she was pushed. I'm still petrified of a lot of other dogs (particularly Labradors) but it's gradually getting easier.

What has changed, however, is my attitude. I've gone from outwardly polite whilst inwardly seething, to standing no messing. It's not desirable and I wish it wasn't the case but it's how it is. That is just my instinctive defence mechanism post dog-attack.

I think I've described before that I had to physically restrain the attacking dog, lifting it by its collar. The incident was 11 years ago and I suspect that could land me in trouble if I did it these days.

I do get verbal now. I'm ashamed to say it and I need to try to control it better. Especially after seeing Bupster's perspective here and knowing that Bill is a complete sweetheart. Sorry but I might have effed at you 😞It's about perceived threat in the heat of the moment. I'm really the last person that should feel that; my dogs are always on the lead and they don't bark anywhere away from their own territory, but their sheer size and bulk is overwhelming for some people. I promise I will work on my dog tolerance and stop the Keira Knightley-esque "will you control your fucking dog!" responses.

One thing about having giant dogs can be that people with the tiny breeds see your dog as fair-game for their little ones to snap and snarl at. Almost as if it's bear-baiting. They view it as tiny little Fido being brave and will even laugh 😡but it's really horrible for the big dog and slightly terrifying for its owner because if the biggun defends itself by warning the snapper, it is immediately labelled dangerous. I'm not anti small dog but some of them do seem to get away with behaviour that would be considered dangerous in a larger breed. We really have to tread carefully at all times these days.

So, for obvious reasons, we do live in fear of off-lead dogs rushing up and I would say that YorkshireFelix has every right to feel the same was about Vinny being harassed. I honestly don't know if I would get hold of someone's dog or not, it might just be that instinct kicked in, as on that previous occasion but these days I'm not sure I'd risk it. You can certainly tell people off though, to some extent. For us, it's mostly avoidance, but there will, inevitably, at some point, be a dog that has a go at Brie and potentially pushes her into responding. For me that's the bigger worry, given her size...

Sorry for the essay, folks 😊

@CoubousAndTourmalet you could absolutely tell us to fuck off and it would be completely deserved. I always put him on lead if I spot an on-lead dog coming towards us, and always check before letting him say hello, as I know damn well that not all dogs want random strangers sniffing their backsides. And for the most part that works; e.g. if we're out for a yomp on the Common, I'm radar-scanning the landscape at all times.

The only time I really relax my guard with him is in our tiny local dog park, where it's pretty clear as you approach that all the dogs are off-lead. So obviously that's where we get in trouble, as I can't get the little sod back in time if someone brings in a puppy who's not really ready for a dog park full of off-lead dogs.

But at the same time, I brought Bill in there when he was really tiny, so it's not the puppy-owners' fault at all either - there weren't any playground bullies in the park when he first turned up (and also he's a hooligan and wouldn't have minded).

I think the only thing we can all do is make sure we keep trying to do the right thing by our own dogs and others. As hooligan-guardian, that means keeping him on lead unless I know the other dog is as robust as him, and never relaxing my guard (which is where it's gone wrong before). And practicing recall, over and over again, every day; and working on his self-control; and hoping the little bollocks grows out of it.

Six months today since I brought him home, and despite all of it, he's still the best thing I ever did. Photo tax of hooligan looking very grown-up.

Oh I completely get this, @CoubousAndTourmalet and meeting you has made me so much more aware of the challenges bigger dog owners face, for which I am hugely grateful. There’s a ridgeback nearish us that I see sometimes that is never off the lead even in the woods, and I’m sure there’s a good reason why. I don’t think he’s even as tall as Brie, though he is probably heavier, but I always, always give him a wide berth and a cheery wave from afar out of respect for the bloke who has a massive muscly tank on the end of a (flexi) lead. (The less said about that lead the better.) So as not to put pupsy in danger by accident, though I’m sure he’s fine, and crucially to not put him in a difficult position while he’s onlead we just avoid, avoid, avoid. It must be so stressful having a bigger dog for that reason – people don’t get that if your massive dog snaps at a little dog, it is potentially really dangerous and crucially it would be your fault, legally, even if your dog was provoked by a tiny yappy thing.

I increasingly think this way about smaller dogs too – you have no idea what they’re like, and even if they’re offlead they might not be as polite as your own dog so best not to have too many surprise encounters.

I’m also really sorry to hear that you had such a horrid experience and that as a dog-lover it made you so dog-phobic.

Also I can totally vouch for @Bupster’s radar-scanning! Happy six months at home to Bill x