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Adolescent Dog Survival Thread - Bark the Herald, furry angels sing!

999 replies

YorkshireFelix · 26/11/2024 23:01

New thread to get us through the festive season! Angelic and naughty teenage pups all welcome Halo

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brushingboots · 17/12/2024 19:58

@YorkshireFelix yeah that def sounds like an adrenaline poo! Especially the liquidy end. She used to have tiny excitement wees when she saw my mum but that seems to have stopped now, presumably with age.

CoubousAndTourmalet · 17/12/2024 20:02

Thanks @YorkshireFelix
Bet it was nice that I was quiet for once...😉

Naw @Bupster , that was their posh (registered) names given by the breeders. To us they were Merlin & Algy. But yes, sounds very upmarket, doesn't it? I do quite like it 😁

YorkshireFelix · 17/12/2024 20:07

@CoubousAndTourmalet I think that sounds sensible. You are right, you do have to be singing from the same hymn sheet when it comes to these things. I think it was worth trying though.

@brushingboots I'm glad to hear the excited pees will stop at some point. We saw my friend on our walk today and he peed all over her shoes which I didn't realise until dd pointed it out to me afterwards (although he did do a nice sat down greeting!)

@Bupster that gives me hope that maybe he will grow out of it at some point! It's awful as it's impossible to pick up 🤢

OP posts:
YorkshireFelix · 17/12/2024 20:08

Vinny's real name is Baildonmoor Bodhi which I find very funny as he doesn't look like a Bodhi at all. And he's certainly not enlightened 😂

OP posts:
Bupster · 17/12/2024 20:10

That's a mad thing for your trainer to say, @CoubousAndTourmalet , and it would put me right off too. Why would you want a perfect dog? You don't want to change Brie into a 'perfect' dog - you want to help her with the stuff she's struggling with, and to give her the best chance to be the best of herself.

I was rehearsing a conversation about this in my head today (as I'm a weirdo). I was trying to explain to an imaginary trainer that most of the things Bill's struggling with right now are to do with his age and his impulse control, and I know he can do them sometimes (like walk nicely on lead), but he can't do them all the time, e.g. first thing in the morning or when he's excited. I know what I need to do to help him with that stuff, in terms of consistency and rewards that are valuable to him; I just haven't had the time or energy, and I know it might take a while. Where I might need help from an imaginary trainer is to make sure he can flourish - e.g. helping him learn skills that I don't have the knowledge to teach him, and giving him a job to do.

Like you and Brie, Bill is perfect to me, I don't want to change who he is. That's not to say he's not a pain in the arse - I bought a big tin of Quality Street for the lovely daycare people including the girl who had to get into the dog bed with him yesterday to get him to nap 😄. But no way am I going to try to force him to be 'perfect' instead of my hilarious little hooligan.

brushingboots · 17/12/2024 20:16

@CoubousAndTourmalet Greetings! Nice to see you :) glad to hear your computer troubles are over.

If your heart isn’t in it, I think it’s got to be the right thing to do. Very rude of the trainer, wow. I’m sure his dog is perfect at home and everywhere else, huh? When I first met my gundog trainer she said to me, it’s ok, one of my dogs is gunshy and that instantly made me feel so much better about pupsy’s future prospects if my actual trainer couldn’t even shoot over one of her dogs.

I was doing some research into something else the other day for work and stumbled upon the presence of LGDs on a few big estates in the early 20th century, which has intrigued me enough that I’d like to write about it in the new year somehow. That might necessitate finding a LGD expert, so if there is a specialist LGD trainer in this country I will track them down and find them! My early researches have not, it’s fair to say, been that successful, but I’m fascinated by the difference in their work to the working dog template in my head.

Bupster · 17/12/2024 20:19

God, I'd love to read that, @brushingboots , please do write about it!

brushingboots · 17/12/2024 20:22

The only reason I got my gundog trainer in, @Bupster, was to teach pupsy the things I didn’t know how to teach – and to learn myself what the formal names were for the things I wanted to teach her, so I could google them and figure it out from there myself. It just gave me the confidence that what I had started was on the right lines, and she helped me so much with getting the human bits right. So I would recommend the experience for that alone – but only for gundog work, not for day-to-day stuff because, as you say, you can do that yourself and he isn’t in need of help there. I mean I'm really not an expert on gundog work but I've probably learned enough to teach you how to teach Bill to do a lot of the basics.

brushingboots · 17/12/2024 20:22

@Bupster thank you for the vote of confidence! I will pitch it in Jan as I am rather taken by the idea.

CaptainBeanThief · 17/12/2024 20:24

@CoubousAndTourmalet
Aghhhh - well I would have told that "trainer" you want a dog, not a robot and to fuck off, but hey that's just me - I'm a chav 🤣

Milo does progressively sloppy poos - if only we did the Bristol stool charts for dogs, we don't do we? 🤣
He once did a really really sloppy poo on someone's end of freshly resin-ed drive way after a run - my husband ran back up the street with a kettle of hot water 💩😱

CoubousAndTourmalet · 17/12/2024 20:40

That's exactly it @Bupster . Consistency, or lack of. Bill & Brie are very close in age so are clearly going through similar developmental phases. We're also getting some good walks and some terrible ones, though at home she is pretty consistently calm and quiet although she does have her cheeky playful moments too. It is frustrating when the excitement takes over on a walk though (on-lead zoomies terrifies me 😨) but hopefully consistency is something that will come with age.

Your daycare people clearly understand (and appreciate) Bill's little quirks and that's good to hear. No pressure to be "perfect". None of us need that!

CoubousAndTourmalet · 17/12/2024 20:54

@brushingboots

With regard to the trainer I think I'm being defensive of Brie. She's never going to behave like a Staffie, nor would I want her to....

Please do the LGD feature, that would be amazing! Particularly as there is currently a bit of a revival in use of LGD here although it is fairly controversial. Do let me know how the research goes...If you find a specialist LGD trainer I need to know!!!

It's not commonly known but Queen Victoria had a Pyrenean long before they were officially in the UK. He was given to her by the French in 1844 but was said to be aggressive. His painting is in the Royal Collections.
https://www.rct.uk/collection/405822/gabbas

Thomas Musgrove Joy (1812-66) - Gabbas

https://www.rct.uk/collection/405822/gabbas

CoubousAndTourmalet · 17/12/2024 21:03

I'm very socially awkward @CaptainBeanThief although I did stand my ground regarding the headcollar he put on her. That got a flat refusal. I did have a big rant to my chap though; he knew I would come into conflict with the trainers views, I'm too set in my ways after 47 years of one breed. I'm a stubborn old goat 😬

OMG, thought you were joking about Bristol stool chart...so I looked and now I can't unsee it 😧

Bupster · 17/12/2024 21:10

CoubousAndTourmalet · 17/12/2024 20:40

That's exactly it @Bupster . Consistency, or lack of. Bill & Brie are very close in age so are clearly going through similar developmental phases. We're also getting some good walks and some terrible ones, though at home she is pretty consistently calm and quiet although she does have her cheeky playful moments too. It is frustrating when the excitement takes over on a walk though (on-lead zoomies terrifies me 😨) but hopefully consistency is something that will come with age.

Your daycare people clearly understand (and appreciate) Bill's little quirks and that's good to hear. No pressure to be "perfect". None of us need that!

They are pretty wonderful, @CoubousAndTourmalet . When he's at HQ, I get a little report on how his day has been, including the names of the other dogs he's been playing with, and which of the carers he's had a cuddle with. The daycare has such a good reputation that quite often they have other dogs that he already knows through puppy classes or walks, and he makes new friends too - Harry the beagle today, who was so sad to see him go he was pressing his little nose through the baby gate as we left 😍

I think the big difference for you is Brie's size. Bill has always been a chonk, but I really looked at him today, and could see the weight and muscles that seem to have come in with the testosterone. When he yanks on the lead I know about it, which is no fun when you're knackered. But Brie's in a different category. I can completely see why asking a trainer for help seemed like the absolute best idea.

I'm sure you've thought of this (and it might actually make things worse) - I got a tug rope from Paws trading that has real rabbit fur woven in. Bill thinks it's the most amazing thing in the WHOLE WORLD EVER so I hardly ever use it, to keep it precious. I'm going to start taking it on our longer walks where he's starting to lose recall, to make myself more interesting. Is there anything similar you could use that isn't food? I suppose the issue with tuggies is the same as with the lead - if she plays tug with you, she's winning 😄

PS that's an amazing painting and story - thank you!

brushingboots · 17/12/2024 21:24

@CoubousAndTourmalet No, you definitely don’t want her to behave like a Staffie, not at her size. I avoid them at their usual, medium size. I think it’s fine to be defensive when someone plainly misunderstands who she is, which he seems to have done.

That makes sense about Queen Victoria as one of the estates I found evidence of LGDs on was Sandringham! It was at about the turn of the century so they must have had a few in the kennels over the decades. How interesting! I will add him to my notes, thank you. I may DM with some LGD questions if I do get it off the ground!

CoubousAndTourmalet · 17/12/2024 22:40

It's good to hear that about Bill's daycare providers @Bupster , they sound very caring and conscientious.

Yes, Brie's size and weight is definitely the biggest challenge for me. She's unbelievably strong and I'm not what I used to be. I'm post menopausal and have osteoporosis, so the fear of being pulled over is very real these days. I'm not letting it defeat me though, I love being out with her.

Actually, that is a good suggestion regarding the tug rope. In fact the one thing the trainer and I did agree on is that her lead biting routine is definitely play, and probably triggered by me giving her a tug rope play session every evening throughout the summer. I don't know why all the stuff online about lead biting suggests boredom, frustration or anxiety, with Brie it's definitely about trying to engage me in play. Maybe I will try taking a tug rope to shove in her mouth on a walk... I hope your rabbit fur toy works in relation to Bill's patchy recall, that must be frustrating. Needless to say, Brie won't even do recall from the garden unless I wave a block of cheese. Her current favourite is Butler's Crumbly Lancashire 😋But anyway, I'll try taking a rope or a rag of some sort on a walk and let you know how it goes...

CoubousAndTourmalet · 17/12/2024 23:10

Interesting about Sandringham @brushingboots . I wonder what they would be...? Pyreneans are certainly the most well known and widely used LGD but they could equally have been Mastin or even Tatra dogs...

Yes, give me a shout if there's anything I can help with. I'm more than happy to give you my email address. I don't know who would be a UK LGD expert but it may be worth speaking to some long term, established breeders to see if they can shed any light on the historic use of working LGD in the UK.

I'd be wary of anyone in the UK claiming to be a LGD trainer. As far as we know there isn't much official or formal "training" for true LGD breeds (that is those like the PMD that only guard and do not herd), beyond putting them in with the livestock at an early age. They are generally "trained" by working alongside an older dog because obviously they don't respond to human command in the way a herder does. They are working largely alone and often at night with no handler present.

I'm sure you'll find all this out as you get deeper into your research if you do decide to take it further.

Bupster · 18/12/2024 11:36

Pupdate: the good, the bad and the bloody hilarious from this morning's walk

Bad - a windy day, and Bill needed a poo, so he started off bonkers, and then saw a cat. I had to haul myself hand over hand along his lead, while he pulled so hard he was upright, to get anywhere close to his head.

Good - he did actually take a treat, and was able to be dragged past where the cat ran off to, and walked nicely for about ten metres when there were people in front of us, and waited at the traffic lights. On the way home, he heeled like he was in a show ring for about 200 metres while I lobbed treatos in his gob 😄

Bad - when we got to the place I was hoping to let him off lead, he saw a squirrel as soon as we got in, while still bonkers...

Good - I was able to let him off eventually, and at one point he looked at me for permission before he chased a bird, then came back perfectly to the whistle once it'd flown away.

Hilarious - the wind was so strong it blew a very lightweight branch down as we were leaving. I was worried it would spook him but instead he tried to carry it home - all seven foot of it 😄

I feel like today underlines that the stuff I'm doing with him is working; it's just being over-ridden by his impulses right now. We passed by the vet for a quick weigh in and to pick up worming tablets, and he's not piling on weight, but he's visibly muscled up over the last couple of months - the testosterone must be swirling around in there. No wonder his poor little puppy brain is addled 😃 Now I just need to work out what's happened to mine.

Photo from last weekend of Count Chonkula.

Adolescent Dog Survival Thread - Bark the Herald, furry angels sing!
CoubousAndTourmalet · 18/12/2024 12:58

We're definitely at the same point @Bupster Bill and Brie obviously different breed, different sex, different instincts, but both very much at that point of inconsistent, erratic behaviour and us constantly having to find that balance of good /bad (well, idiocy pretty much).

Oh I can so empathise with that struggle where they pull so hard they rear up. I get that when Brie spots someone she knows 😨

I did smile at the image of Bill and his slightly over-ambitious attempt to carry home a "stick". Is that a Labrador trait? I often seem to see Labs carrying large bits of branch around...

Bill does look strong, sturdy, muscular and solid, he looks in really good shape. I'd love for Brie to be more muscled, she's still carrying a bit too much puppy fat - we are trying to increase the walks but this shite weather isn't helpful.

Brie will walk nicely to heel, or at least giant dog version of heel, which is her shoulder being level with my hand, so her head is slightly in front of my hip when she's alongside. We can do a loose lead heel-ish walk down the road, around the corner, past the Post Office and a row of cottages, but as soon as we cross the road and go down a narrow lane to head towards her favourite field, she turns into Tigger. Bounce, bounce, twirl around, grab the lead "la la la, look at meeee....!!!" After that it's impossible to get her to focus and some days we have on-lead zoomies at the entrance to the field...of late it's been right in front of a load of builders working on a cottage renovation 😳

Thankfully she doesn't chase birds or squirrels but she has to go and greet the ponies in the paddock and my arm will be pulled out of the socket if I don't meet the demands. That said, she's good and they went nose-to-nose with her immediately after a hysterically barking Bedlington had had them on the run. So that was quite a proud LGD Mama moment. She's never once barked outside of home turf...our others were the same though. Barking seems to be reserved for guarding their family and property.

On the way back from a walk I'll have more lead biting lunacy interspersed with moments of being an excellent girl (must stress that I refer to Brie here, not myself 😜). So every time we venture out it's as you describe; the good/bad, hot/cold and never knowing quite what sort of walk it's going to be.

It's challenging in some ways, the lack of consistency but it's all just part of them growing up. In 6 months, 12 months things will be very different.

I think you know your own dog very, very well, you understand him and appreciate him. I love that.

CaptainBeanThief · 18/12/2024 16:12

I'm pissing myself,
It looks like ive murdered milo has been taxi dermi-ed and I've placed him at my fire place to admire 😂😂😂

Adolescent Dog Survival Thread - Bark the Herald, furry angels sing!
CaptainBeanThief · 18/12/2024 16:31

Jokes I haven't murdered him 💩

Adolescent Dog Survival Thread - Bark the Herald, furry angels sing!
CoubousAndTourmalet · 18/12/2024 16:34

@CaptainBeanThief
He's a gorgeous boy ❤

CaptainBeanThief · 18/12/2024 16:37

He needs to go out for a wee but I don't want to get his beautiful fur wet and muddy 😱 how selfish of me ha ha.
I can't imagine how you feel when brie when has to go out haha.
How are you @CoubousAndTourmalet

CoubousAndTourmalet · 18/12/2024 16:58

@CaptainBeanThief
That's totally understandable, his fur is very beautiful 😍

Brie, by contrast, is absolutely filthy from her walk earlier; she looks disgusting. Our garden is a mudbath, in fact our village is pretty much a quagmire at the moment 😬 How am I? I think it's fair to say I'm 😡 with Hippopotamus Brie and pissed off about having to change my clothes but I did look as if I had been mud wrestling...😩

How are you feeling this week?

CaptainBeanThief · 18/12/2024 17:25

I'm ok -
Feeling better mood wise
Health wise - I was back at the doctor's as they wanted to see me on the back off the a and e visit I had the other week about my AF kicking off.
The doctor was the best doctor I have ever seen ( apart from the ICU ones that saved my life 🤣)
Anyway - he was disgusted that they just sent me away like poof,
He said I'm potentially quite poorly - for them not to admit me for urgent cardiology care is really poor -
My blood pressure was 175/115 which is really unusually high for me probably due to the bastard pain in the arse dog I'm normally about 101/70
My stats were otherwise ok but he was very concerned with other signs,
He rang the hospital to admit me to the acute cardiology ward but they said no as they hadn't done an ECG at the GP ( they don't have ECG machines there) so I'd have to go through A and E.
So I came home and I've had a chilled day. I'm not going back to a and e to be fobbed off. I know I should but..... I can't be arsed