Puppy Survival Thread for New and Old Pups - here comes winter 2024

[Bupster]

I thought I might as well be the one to start the new thread! Nothing to report but a sleepy puppy over here.

@ProudRavenclaw gorgeous!! The biting is challenging, especially now I’m at the point where little man definitely does it with purpose at points… loves to spin his head round and give you a good chomp when you are trying to fasten up harness for example!

@ConsternationStation how are you getting on? I don’t have experience of this exact scenario but wondered if it would be worth one of you going to “bed” on the sofa at the same time as pup and just camping their for the night. To see if that helps her get past the 1.30am wake, she may see you’re there and settle back in. Or do you think one of your being there would just mean she would want to get in the sofa with you from the get go?

At least if she was settled with you there, you’d know if it was worth reorganising your room to accommodate a crate if this would help her (and you) sleep through.

@Bupster @Twiglets1 @Kateboosh I’ve owned GSD’s and Boxer’s all my life and have never experienced biting like a Golden Retriever puppy 🤣. She does the sneaky biting when putting her lead on as well. It’s mainly playing/tugging but once she’s latched onto my clothes it takes high value treats or toys to get her off. I need a lot of new clothes because she’s put holes in everything 😫.

She’s losing her back teeth at the minute, all 4 baby canines are still there though, her adult ones growing nicely beside them 😒

It’s getting better here but we have the crate in the bed (very cramped but short term) and we have a makeshift bed (pile of duvets on the floor) by the bed. We were laying next to the crate at 1.30am most nights (then falling asleep there) but she’s improving and we’re trying not to fall asleep. This morning I was tired and laid by the crate when she woke at 6.50am… she went straight back to sleep until 8am 😂 (pretty sure that was a one off and I really expected to be getting up at 6.50am).

We’ve had the same issue with teeth @ProudRavenclaw – think Betty is going to have to have her canines pulled as they’re showing no signs of going anywhere and the adult ones are fully through now. Vet tomorrow in fact!

@ConsternationStation Have you made any progress with sleep? I was determined Betty wouldn’t sleep in the room with us but soon gave up on that one as it’s the only way we can get her through the night without an accident. So she’s in her crate in our room. She wakes about 6.30-7, DP takes her down for a wee and then she comes back up and at weekends will sleep on our bed until 9ish which is really nice. But we still haven’t managed to leave her alone for more than 3 minutes! She’s also started being sick in the car which is fun. But I am starting to see the light with toilet training – still getting fairly regular accidents but she can go a lot longer now which is great and DP assures me that his last girl dog just suddenly got it one day so I’m hoping Betty does too! Her latest thing is going in the bathroom 🤣 she seems to have decided that it’s where we go so it must be where she should go too. I figure it’s a step in the right direction!

Pup has been on the bed with us since around 9 weeks - and he’s 5 months today! Generally sleeps through until 7.30 ish - and occasionally does want to get up then but will lie in until 8.30 / 9.00! Not this weekend of course- up through the night around 3 am to pee. At least he can get up and downstairs on his own now as he’s getting heavy! Glad to hear Betty is still having the occasional accident @peachgreen as I thought it was just us! Have to watch him like a hawk still or he’ll pee in our bedroom. Teeth coming through - keep finding baby ones on the floor. Our main issue is the barking. He will suddenly bark frantically and lunge at me. Have no idea what he wants. Knowing that would help a lot!

Oh yeah definitely still having accidents here @haggisaggis and Betty is almost 6 months now! I don’t think she understands at all that outside is her toileting space – the only reason she ever goes out there is that we’re much better at noticing her signs now so we get her out there as soon as she needs to go. Left to her own devices she would still be going inside every time. We still reward every time she goes outside so I’m hoping eventually it will just click. Does make me slightly long for our reliable boy (he died suddenly when he was 3) who would really only go when we walked him, but otherwise would walk to the front door, woof once and then trot out to do what he needed to do. The dream!

Barking definitely becoming more of an issue here,
mostly at our next door neighbour’s dogs, one of whom is 13 and both deaf and blind so prone to barking at just about everything, at which Betty happily joins in. We’re getting there with the “quiet” command though. She still gets the puppy zoomies and has a nasty habit of snapping at our feet as she races past the sofa — only in play but she’s so frantic it still hurts — so that is quite annoying. It’s when she’s overtired, so usually an enforced nap sorts her out.

@Kateboosh oh, that's a good idea. We could try that out for a week and see if it makes a difference. I think she's just a wee snuggler if I'm completely honest. She's always loved a cuddle and would rather be touching me than anywhere else!

@peachgreen no further progress on the sleep yet. I'm definitely getting closer and closer to attempting to squeeze her into the bedroom. I think we may have our last dog's old crate out in the shed. It'd need a good clean because it hasn't been used in years but it's slightly smaller than the one we are using in the living room for N so might fight upstairs. It would still be plenty big for her though.

I think part of the issue is the kids often wake up around 1.30 for the toilet or to come into our bed and I think it's possibly disturbing her. You can hear people walking across the room from downstairs and the kids aren't exactly light-footed, especially when they are half asleep.

Oh one other thing to ask about: how on earth do I get her to stop pulling on a walk? It wasn't that long ago that I was complaining that she stopped after every three steps all the time but now she's actually hurting my arm with all the pulling. I know many people use a treat in front of pup for ten steps then reward type thing but she just loses interest in the treat, even if it's a high reward one like chicken. Does anyone have any suggestions?

Currently struggling with the same thing. The advice is to stand still until she turns back to you, reward and then carry on. In our case she immediately goes back to pulling.
I start out full of ambition to stop every single time she pulls, but that way we’d cover about 20 yards in half an hour. That said, she is gradually getting better - and I reward her with ‘good walking!’ and a wee treat whenever she walks on a slack lead. I look on enviously at the local dogs and owners who walk along in a completely relaxed and harmonious way.

@ConsternationStation The stop-start technique is the oft-given advice but spaniels find it particularly hard as their nose is life and they see the world through it so keenly. I have done (and still do if she’s getting bolshy) a lot of stop-start with my girl but crucially – and you’ll see this advice further up this thread/the previous one – you need to work on it in places and at times where she isn’t super hyped for whatever reason. So I never worked on lead walking before my girl had had a poo, for example. She will always go on the first 30m of any given walk so if the beginning of the walk started on a lead I would never expect the first 30m to be nice walking because she was desperate for a poo and could only concentrate on that. Likewise she wouldn’t walk nicely past the pheasant pen when she was little (and still sometimes now), so I would only start the heelwork when we were well shot of the phessies. More generally I’d only really work on it when she had already run off the top layer of her energy. That probably isn’t what a trainer would advise but it worked for us: I let her have a runaround and we’d do some other training or some hedge-diving or whatever, and when she’d done some spanielling then we’d work on lead walking. I used to work on it intensely on the way back from walks that we’d walked to, when she was a bit tired and was more receptive to what I was asking from her. That’s my best advice – know your dog and what they’re like and when they’re like it.

What kind of lead setup are you using? I found a harness really didn’t help with the pulling, and once I stopped using it I found she walked much better. All the harness did was enabled her to lean into the pull better. It's horses for courses, but it didn’t work for us – beyond giving me something to grab when she was little – and when she grew out of my favoured one I didn’t replace it.

It won’t be much consolation but what it really takes is time and consistency. My girl isn’t on the lead much so we don’t work on it excessively anymore, but her maturing has really helped her lead manners.

@Cactusali we're completely the same here. If I try stop/start she just takes off as soon as it's time to go again. We'd never get anywhere if I did that every single time she pulled!

@brushingboots that really makes sense with not expecting too much in the way of lead training while she's feeling very energetic or at the very beginning of a walk. I don't expect any miraculous behaviour until she's had that poo!
She's definitely most receptive after that first poo/the first half of the walk. It's almost as if she can tell we're heading home and gets anxious to be there as fast as possible, even when I change up the root or we've gone somewhere else entirely. I feel like her pulling his most intense when she's tiring, weirdly enough.

She's such a good wee baby and I'm super proud of the progress we are both (all of my family) are making. I just wish that things like loose lead walking and sleeping through the night came easily to us both. She's great on a long training lead at a park for playing, running and recall - even if I am terrified to ever have her off lead fully. My last dog, a JRT, was a runner and would disappear given a seconds chance!

@ConsternationStation I know what you mean about being tired at the end – sometimes with little ones it can be harder because they’re now overtired too so get naughty for a different reason.

I let mine off on her first ever walk and can’t recommend it enough now I'm well out the other side! She always stuck close – not on my heel but close enough for safety. It’s scary but (in my book) the older they get without having ‘freedom’ the harder it can be to get them back as they get braver and then become teenagers and stick two fingers up. When they’re little they’re desperate to be with you – especially spaniels, bred to work with people – so you can manipulate that.

Do I remember right that you’re up near Edinburgh? If I’m remembering right and we have talked about this before (there were two spaniel ladies here beginning with C for a bit!), I went to Mordor last week (not with my girl, for work) and it really is as good as you see on YouTube! So I can definitely recommend them if you want a trainer and it isn’t too far. It’s just up from Inverkeithing, really not a long way from you, if you are indeed by Edinburgh.

@ConsternationStation you’re honestly better off letting them off the lead while they’re still young puppies and like to stay close to you. Because then you can practice recall and reinforce it with treats each time they come back. Which is going to help once they hit adolescence because at that point they are braver about moving further away from you.

Agree with all of the above re letting off lead - I let Bill's 5m long line trail as early as I possibly could and practiced recall every day, and it was spotless until he was about seven months old. As @brushingboots has seen, it isn't any longer - if he takes off after a bird then nothing else exists - but in smaller places with fewer birds it's still very very good, and I can call him back from other dogs despite him struggling badly with them at the moment. I practiced recall daily even when I didn't have the capacity to do anything else because I knew (theoretically) he was going to struggle with it in adolescence.

Backing up what @brushingboots says re not trying to do nice walking pre-poo too 😁He has good and bad moments (and the really bad ones I have to wrap his lead around my waist and give up) but pre-poo he just can't focus any more than I could in similar circumstances

Our dog had her adult canines grow in in front of her baby ones. They were like that for a while. Vet said not to worry and if they were still there when she got spayed they could sort them then but they fell out shortly after.

@brushingboots @Bupster @Twiglets1 Totally appreciate the importance of off lead early. I have allowed the long training lead to trail behind her at the park and not hold it. I'm not brave enough to remove it as I know it gives me a safety net. I don't think she minds too much. She loves to just run round me in big circles or chase a ball for a little bit.

I'm in west central Scotland so about an hour from Edinburgh.

I am the spaniel owner from Edinburgh! Belle is also a bit of a nightmare on a lead, despite lots of training - but some good tips there! I let Belle run on her long line (not held) generally once a day, but she will not recall from other dogs, which is causing an issue. I love when we get to the park and there’s no-one else there…

That’s so exciting you met the Mordor guy @brushingboots I have watched many of his videos. I’m actually booking in with a local gun dog guy to initially brush up on recall, how do I get her to come back when there’s other exciting stuff, but hoping to do more of it to keep her mind engaged!

Ahh it's you, @ComeTalkToMe! I couldn't remember which way round you were. I was lucky to come home without the promise of another puppy – very tempting given how fab his dogs are. If I lived up there I'd definitely go for lessons.

There was a time when I'd have said that I'd never crack a polite disinterest in unknown dogs with my girl but I'd say we're about there now, so keep the faith! She loves to play with her friends but she's far more interested in the environment/me than random dogs. Like so much, I think it does come with emotional maturity. I've no doubt that you'll get hooked on gundog work when you start – it's so rewarding for both human and dog!

Polite disinterest is the dream! I must say I am getting sick of other people letting their dogs run up, not even trying to recall them and getting a bit annoyed at me… I’m trying to train her!!

@ComeTalkToMe It's frustrating, isn't it? I think we just have to advocate for our girls. This morning I watched some random lab make the decision to leave its owner and run towards me and my girl, who was busy looking for rabbits. It didn't get as far as her – when it got to me I just said 'no, go away' to it firmly and after a few seconds it turned and went back to its owner who was lagging behind not paying attention. The other thing I do, if random dogs are circling with visibly uncaring owners, is get pupsy to sit so she becomes boring to them. It's good practice for her and tends to have the desired effect with the other dogs too. But I really hear you. I'm always super nice to other owners and say 'oh it's fine!!!' but it's not fine, actually – my dog is busy, leave her alone!

@peachgreen how did you teach ‘quiet’? We have tried but pup is so food motivated that he will bark so he can be quiet again and get another treat! We have slowly sussed out that some of the frenzied barking is to tell us he needs out. Unfortunately we cannot always differentiate it from the ‘I want to play’, ‘I want attention’, I want food’, ‘I don’t know what I want so I’ll just bark’ barking!

I saw a tip on a video that said they have to demonstrate the positive behaviour for 4 seconds before you give them the reward so they don't associate the treat with the negative behaviour. No idea if that is actually scientific, mind! For us her barking is mostly at other dogs so it's a bit easier as we're able to reward before she barks – so if another dog barks, we'll say "quiet" and then if she doesn't bark, we cue and treat. If she barks, we do a firm "NO. Quiet." and once she's quiet, we count to four slowly (in our heads!) and then says "Yes, quiet." cue and treat. It definitely doesn't always work, especially when she's in a frenzy!

Thanks @DataPup, this is what our vet said too, although they've said they don't think they will come out and will need to be pulled when she's being spayed. Another £60! 😅

More generally I’d only really work on it when she had already run off the top layer of her energy. That probably isn’t what a trainer would advise but it worked for us: I let her have a runaround and we’d do some other training or some hedge-diving or whatever, and when she’d done some spanielling then we’d work on lead walking.

Actually @brushingboots that's exactly what our trainer advised! In fact she said she doesn't take her dogs for walks until they're a year old – up until then she focuses on training that tires them out, so she drives them to the beach or the park or whatever and does long-line recall, and then she does lead walking training in the garden or on the driveway where they're calm and safe and it's not too exciting. And then she starts taking them on proper walks once they can walk perfectly on lead. Not practical for us as we have places we need to walk to (the school run twice a day for a start!) but we don't worry about lead training when we're walking to get somewhere and instead only work on it in the garden. It is sort of working... slowly!

Our biggest problem is that we seem to have a preteen! Betty is super smart and picks things up really quickly, but she's also SO stubborn – even at 6 months she quite often knows precisely what we want and just refuses to do it. Her recall is great... right up until there's something more interesting than us / she knows that we want her for something she doesn't want to do (there is a lot more running away from us when we're trying to get her lead on than I would like...!). She's really not food motivated so that doesn't work. Any tips very welcomed!

And a funny (sort of!) story... we were walking with her into the village centre yesterday and on the way, the route takes us past a local house that has lots of toys in the garden – local eccentric, she has old teddies and Barbies and whatnot in her front bed and the village kids stop and pet them, very sweet. Anyway a new addition is a fairly large Paddington standing on the top of the hill of her driveway – so from Betty's perspective it looks about 6 foot tall. She was happily looking around until she spotted the bear – at which point she LEAPT in the air (straight into the thankfully empty road!), dashed off in the opposite direction in a complete panic and spent a good 15 minutes shaking life a leaf in my arms! We managed to persuade her past it again but she would only go if she was right at DP's heels and I walked between her and the bear. Annoyingly she's definitely in her "fear" phase right now and she has been a bit extra-jumpy ever since, poor pup. I'm convinced she's going to be scared of people in hats and welly boots forever more!

Ahh that’s really interesting, @peachgreen – I feel slightly vindicated! Sounds very sensible from your trainer, I like that approach.

Re Betty’s teenage strops – we have an active and very supportive adolescent dog thread running on here that caters specifically for teen dogs so if you want to join us over there now all our chats are about exactly the kind of thing you’re dealing with! You’ll see lots of familiar faces there too as we have graduated from the puppy thread to the teenage thread. I'll tag you in it in case it's slipped down the list.

Oh bless her with Paddington! That is quite the image, both of her and it!