Puppy Survival Thread for New and Old Pups - here comes winter 2024

[Bupster]

I thought I might as well be the one to start the new thread! Nothing to report but a sleepy puppy over here.

@ComeTalkToMe I’m so sorry. Betty had the same thing although not quite so severe. £650 later (thank goodness for insurance!) and they told us she must have eaten something funny and sent us on our way with a probiotic and anti sickness jab too. She was fine after a day or two. Hope the same is true for Belle.

I have never been so happy to see an almost solid poo 😂After last night and a day of very reduced food, and the probiotic she now mainly just seems annoyed at me I’m not feeding her more! Thank you everyone, it has been quite scary!

Hope everyone and their pups are doing well this week.

I can't remember if I've specifically asked about this before but I'm looking for some help with the crate training. N has a crate in the living room, has since day one. The door stays open and she's able to go in and out of it as she pleases for the most part. We do use it when she becomes manic and very bitey to keep her and the kids safe although this is already lessening.

During the day, when it is just the two of us, she's quite happy to settle in it with the door open (or on the couch) for a sleep so long as she can see me. At night she will take a nap in it with the door closed while we do bedtime for the kids. She also sleeps a few hours at night in it before she inevitably cries and sleeps on the couch with either me or DH. Essentially what I'm saying is she seems pretty happy with it generally speaking.

I'm trying to crate train her so that I'll be able to leave her for a few hours during the day, here and there. Not every day and I know it'll take time to build up to a few hours. As much as I love her, I can't stay at home with her all the time - it's not good for either of us!

The problem is when I put her into the crate during the day and close the door, the moment I leave the room she cries. It doesn't matter if she's just had a walk or a play in the garden and is tired or not. I'm currently just trying 5 minutes a couple of times a day and she cries the whole time. I've done lots of treat work with her, using the word "settle" and she's okay with the door open or closed UNTIL I leave the room then you'd think I was just permanently standing on her paw! She just cries the most pathetic cries. Poor baby.

Do I persevere with five minutes until she is eventually calm? Do I add more time and hope I can wait her out? Do never leave the house again? Anyone who has crate trained can you help me?

I’ve not fully crate trained so hopefully others will hop on, but crate training and alone training are different things. How is she if you leave her outside the crate? She is very young and some puppies just cannot be alone at all until they’re older.

That's a good point @Bupster I guess they are different things. It's like crate training 2.0! Ha!

She's hit or miss if I leave her out the crate and leave the room. Sometimes she'll cry in the two minutes it takes to go to the toilet and other times I can be upstairs for 5-10 minutes, putting laundry away or whatever and I won't hear a peep.

Unfortunately if we are leaving her alone in the house (again, not for a while) she has to be crated. She chews on everything, the layout of our house isn't suitable to leave her out. I'm hoping one day we'll get there. Our previous dog had free reign of the house and would sleep on our bed while we were out. She was crated when young but got to the stage that she could go/sleep anywhere.

I didn't leave Vinny until he was about 5 months. He just wasn't ready before then as he was too little.

We have a cheap WiFi camera which has been invaluable for getting him used to being left, as you can go for a few minutes at the start and see how he's are doing then come back if he's starting to become upset.

He is the same where he will happily sleep in his crate at night but if he's in there in the day and can't see me he hates it. He naps outside of the crate now, and if I go out I leave him and he just snoozes on the sofa and occasionally looks out of the window.

We only have a small house so he just has access to the living room and kitchen, and I've puppy proofed as much as possible. He literally doesn't chew a thing when I'm gone which is odd, because he is definitely a chewer.

@ConsternationStation that sounds quite like us,’but we still have further to go - she quite likes her crate but not ok being left. I’m just trying to work on her choosing to be in a different room at least with the flitting game if you’ve heard of that? It’s where you kind of go room to room ignoring them so eventually you hope they decide you’re boring and maybe choose to be by themself more!

Hey everyone, we finally made it through January!

Our pup has finally been allowed out this week, the weather has been rotten but that hasn’t put him off. For those of you who struggled with toilet training… did it eventually just click?

Its very early days here, we couldn’t safely let him out in the garden before now so we feel like we’re back to start in a way. We allowed him to toilet in his pen indoors to try to get a routine going and have now moved the pen to the garden hoping there would be an association but there’s just too much going on. And I know dogs don’t necessarily generalise well. Yes, he’s still in the pen but he’s on a different surface.

its the usual story, we take him out lots to give the opportunity to toilet, we walk him, a little and slowly for now, it is of course a sniff fest but he will then toilet indoors. I suspect we just need to preserve but any words of sesame or experience greatly appreciated!

Yes it eventually just clicked @Kateboosh

After lots of praise/treats every time he went in the right place. And lots of patience and biting my tongue every time he went in the wrong place.

Thanks @Twiglets1

Deep breaths it is!! I’d love him to “go” outside so we can make a fuss, instead it’s all inside & ignoring/not making a big deal. Know it’s early days… not sure if it being cold, windy & wet is helping our cause.

Thankfully he didn’t seem too fussed by the rain, was trying to “eat” as it fell from the sky 😂

Hello! How are everyone and their lovely pups doing? N is 4 months old now and growing like a weed. I cannot believe how quickly they grow! She's still very much in her landshark phase but she's lost some baby teeth and some of the adult ones are making an appearance now. I can already tell the chewing and biting has become more gentle. Hurray!

Walks are getting better albeit she will pull my arm off about 90% of the time. No amount of stopping walking when she pulls helps as she just starts right back up with the pulling when we move. So any tips would be appreciated.

I know that while WCS are energetic dogs they need good mental stimulation. What are the best brain games for pups? Other than the obvious training time I also have been putting kibble or treats in old toilet tubes for her to rip into and find the food or hiding treats under cups etc. but I'd love to hear more brain games. I think eventually I'd like to do some agility style training with her, albeit not in any kind of hugely professional manners!

@ConsternationStation - it’s a very unpopular opinion on mumsnet, but IMO, brain games should involve training not hunting for food. Training is essential for dogs and dogs being trained tend not to get over stimulated - unlike with ‘food brain games’ where they often get overstimulated and get food out of it which is a terrible combination. Too many posters always say they give their dog food based games but their dog is still destructive - and it’s not surprising when food based games wind up and stimulate dogs and provide them with energy. A little goes a long way with games like that. I always advise buyers of my pups to train their dogs to tire them out, not to be taken in by ‘brain games.’ It also helps bond with your dog, gets them used to commands, teaches them to be calm if they’re having zoomies etc.

For walking, I always advise holding a high value treat in the same hand you hold the leash - chicken, beef - and showing it to the pup and making them do ten steps at a time then rewarding them from that hand. Replace the treat and continue. I do it crouched down with my dogs for the first week or so - then after that they tend to pick it up easily. If yours is treat motivated, should take about the same amount of time.

@ConsternationStation I 100pc agree about not constantly giving food for mental stimulation, because what spaniels in particular need is the ability to do nothing successfully, but I would just add that one of the best things I do with my (20-month-old) cocker is a bit of scent work in the house with some cubes of pate. It’s only a tiny bit of food, it doesn’t wind her up, and it gets her to engage her nose in a place where she’s not usually asked to sniff. We do a lot of hunting outside anyway, as part of normal life and training, but I’ve found a bit of indoor scent work to pay off hugely. If it’s chucking it down at lunchtime when we would ordinarily to do some training in the garden, I might do some of that instead – sit her up in one room and then hide some pate elsewhere, and ask her to search. That works as both as sniffing exercise and a ‘sit and do nothing and wait for me’ exercise which is key. We do about five reps and that’s enough and she’s out cold on the kitchen rug, knackered because sniffing is hard work.

Beyond that, though, gundog work of all kinds will do her wonders. They’re never too young to start and for my money that’s the best kind of brain game you can give a working-line dog. I would caution against making her sit steady for too long while she’s so little – though later you will find this to be a very good mental exercise for her – but there are lots of gundog drills you can start, even in the house, that will engage her natural instincts. My girl isn’t fussed by puzzles and couldn’t care less about kongs – she just gets annoyed and gives up. The best enrichment I can give her is to make her life as close to a working one in a pet scenario as possible, and we did that from day one.

@brushingboots @LandSharksAnonymous oh, I'm definitely looking for non-food brain games and training ideas. What is the best way to do scent work/mental games without food? I don't really want everything to be food driven - or destructive as you say. There's a fair bit of destruction from her just as a puppy, I don't want that to be who she is as a dog.

@ConsternationStation Personally I think a tiny bit of food is fine – hence my sometimes use of pate indoors, but my girl is older now so I appreciate that I'm not dealing with a hyper pup.

You can train them onto particular scents, which is something I'd like to do but haven't as yet – you can use clove oil and other diluted essential oils, and you can use pieces of cut-up red kong too. That's a very popular one.

I also find that naming their toys is good fun and everyone can get involved with that – it's not so technical. Every time I introduce a new friend to the house they get a proper name, and then you can ask them to 'find froggy', or whoever. Again, no food, but still finding and sniffing, which is key for a spaniel. You might need to help her but that's another way to bond – she will look, not be able to find, and come to you for directions, and you can introduce (if you haven't already) hand directional signals for her.

Really, gundog work for me is the big one – it's what they're bred to do. But don't forget the power of sitting doing nothing, which in the house translates to: chilling out and not being annoying. They don't need to be engaged all the time, or even most of the time.

This one, @CheryllO

@brushingboots worth reading that posters thread in 'Pets'

Ohhhh no I hadn't seen @LandSharksAnonymous. Sigh

Folks, can I ask, about enforced naps
... our furry little ASBO is 13 weeks (got him at 8) and while I love him I would say there are several times a day, every day, when I dislike him and resent how shit life is at the moment. I know )fuck I'm praying anyway!) that it will pass but right now in the thick of it, I'm tearful most days. I don't feel like I can talk to any of my RL dog friends as they warned me how much he would change life so I feel a bit of a dick tbh.

He is a border terrier who fights sleep most days. Sometimes if I let him fall sleep on me first I can put him in his crate and snuggle him amongst his blankets and maybe get a 45 minutes rest

But he won't go there by himself to sleep (crate is in a corner of lounge and only place in house it will fit) and DOES NOT KNOW HOW TO CHILL THE F OUT!!!

I'm balancing a few training sessions a day, playing with him and letting h potter but also trying not to make him completely hyper. As he's restated his jabs he can't really go out for another 5 weeks so other than the garden, visiting friends (oh, he hates the car and whines while trying to climb out of his little booster box thing) we're very limited to how we can help him get rid of his energy.

If we just place him in his crate before he's got dozy on us first he cries, thrashes about and tries to rip his bed up. Not helped that generally when enforced naps are attempted it's when his bloody biting has got OTT so he's in the Gremlin Zone.

Weirdly, when he has napped in there and wakes, he'll happily sit and have a stretch and watch us occasionally changing position, for up to half an hour. So clearly he doesnt hate it! And seems happy to sleep at night with a few wee breaks.

Don’t feel bad @tellmewhenthespaceshiplandscoz we’ve all felt the same about our puppies at times. Nothing can really prepare you for how bad the first few weeks & months can be, especially before they can tire themselves out by running it off.

My puppy didn’t have enforced naps so I can’t really comment much on that. Apart from to say would he be happier with a dog bed outside the crate? My puppy used to be manic but then suddenly collapse in his bed or just on the carpet. He didn’t have a crate but has got very good at self settling. He’s 9 months old now though, he used to resist falling asleep when small.

@tellmewhenthespaceshiplandscoz I'd agree, try him out of the crate - mine would only (and at ten months old STILL will only) settle for a nap if actually touching me in some way, or near as dammit.

When very tiny I had him restricted to a puppy-proof room and his space gradually got bigger until it is now the whole house; he will occasionally go in and out of his crate but has never seen it as a 'safe' place (but we don't have a very busy house, it's just the two of us). So instead he settled in a bed at my feet when I ate or had to work - the only times I wouldn't respond to him. Now if I make a meal he will head straight to that bed.

They're basically hairy toddlers. They will resist sleep and you might have to have him on your lap for a while yet. It does get easier - when they can walk and you can knacker them out, and then by five months old when their baby teeth fall out it feels much, much easier. Of course then they hit adolescence and everything goes to hell 😄

Ahh thanks both that's encouraging to read ... funnily enough when we had that lovely sun yesterday I had our blinds fully yo up in the lounge and he played happily and calmly by himself for a while then just flopped on the floor in the sun and dozed two firsts in one day! Not sure when they will be repeated tho!

I'll perhaps try a blanket folded up on the floor maybe in a corner and see if he takes to that instead ... and yes about falling asleep on us ... it's totally adorable and actually this evening he wanders up to the settee where I was sitting, popped up on his back legs and rather than try to bite any over hanging body part just cocked his head and wagged his tail ... I picked him up and he dozed on me ... I'm trying to take the positive that at least he is acknowledging he is sleepy so it's start.

Ah, @tellmewhenthespaceshiplandscoz I am right there with you!!! Please do not feel bad, I promise we are all in this boat together!!

Our yorkie terrier is 15 weeks, like yourself we’ve had him since 8 weeks. They really do turn into bitey mental lunatics when they are tired. We have clocked that he cannot really stay awake for more than 90 mins at a time or he goes MENTAL!

For us, he only naps and sleeps properly in his crate. I have tried just leaving a bed out for him, he will not take himself off to settle. Instead he’ll dig in the bed and rag doll toys around the place before attacking you with his teeth.

His crate is in the utility, I put him in, close the door and sit on the floor a little bit away from the crate. I ignore him but sit where he can see me and do something on my phone. It usually takes him about 10 mins to get the message, then I slowly get up and leave the room.

I can’t be in the room off the utility once he’s gone down or he’ll whine as he can hear me so I’ve set up a work station in the hall when I WFH.

If lounge is the only place for his crate, are you able to try settling him and then going to the bedroom or similar? Do you have a cover over his crate? If we’re in the same room our boy is too interested in what we’re doing, the head is up every few minutes to check we’re still there or god forbid I have to go get up to go the loo, if I was in the same room as him he until that point be whining when I left.

This isn’t foolproof I have to say, I came home from an office day today to a very frazzled DH who reported that pup had refused to sleep all afternoon. He was spinning about the place tossing a chew around and growling at it. And also reported he hadn’t been to the toilet for about 4 hours despite spending more time with him in the garden giving him the chance to go than he had in the house!

I have found some things that help to “calm” are a licky matt, our boy seems to quite like Greek yogurt. We bought lots of puppy appropriate chews but he wasn’t interested in them. I then tried him with lamb braids and he LOVES chewing on these (when he’s not chucking it around and growling at it). I find giving these things in the 20-30 mins before trying to get him to nap can usually (ha!) chill him out. And I try not to “play” with him in this window as it just riles him up. Again, not at all 100% successful but I’d say most of the time this helps.

Our boy has also been a nightmare in the car, the vet is a 20 min drive away and when I had to take him he barked solidly the whole way there and the whole way back.

We started puppy classes (online, will be in person next month) and one of the other owners was asking about the car, having the same issue. Trainer said she views the car as a non-negotiable that they need to get used to so just keep at it every day. Even just short trips in the car to try to desensitise them. And to try different places in the car to see what works best for them. I have found pup travels better in the front passenger seat, he managed 10 mins in the car on Monday before he started whining so I’m taking that as progress.

I feel your pain and frustration, and am often wondering what we have done to ourselves and if we’ll ever get to the point the pup can just wander around, be part of the household and take himself to chill when he needs to rather than this military style operation we need to go through just to get him to calm down. I’m sure he will (otherwise I don’t know what I’ll do!!) I keep reminding myself he is a baby.

It is super hard, and we all get it, I promise!!

@tellmewhenthespaceshiplandscoz I feel your pain! Even though Belle is now nearly 6 months she still fights sleep. She now will accept being in the crate, so I can cover it and she’ll then sometimes do an hour, or a lovely 90 mins the other day - but sometimes she just gets over tired and won’t sleep, gets bitey, has me questioning my life! I had hoped this would be past by now - but we actually have come a long way in the last 6 weeks it’s just sometimes hard to see!

It’s funny how we’re told different things ( very confusing actually) but I was told the opposite re car travel. My Lab puppy was scared of the car boot and refused to jump into my hatchback boot or when lifted in would bark and whine to come out immediately.

I was advised to leave it a couple of months and put him in a harness in the back seat instead. Then put a licky mat in the boot and encourage him to jump into the boot in a running jump to get to the licky mat. I have to say that avoiding the boot for a couple of months did work. He seemed to have forgotten his previous anxiety and to my surprise he jumped into it straight away and started scoffing the licky mat so I was able to close the boot door. And do a journey without any barking or whining.

He’s very relaxed in the car now & happily jumps in and out. Gradually the licky mat was replaced by a few bits of kibble. So many things we think are going to be big problems in puppyhood do actually just disappear as they get older.