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The doghouse

If you're worried about your pet's health, please speak to a vet or qualified professional.

Oh my giddy god......

984 replies

HangingOver · 30/09/2024 13:58

I can't actually believe I'm finally typing this... I think I'm getting a dog!

I've wanted one of my own my entire life. I had one growing up and look after friends and neighbours at every available opportunity as I adore dogs so much. A rescue came up locally and I thought he looked lovely, he was snapped up immediately, but came up again yesterday! Me and DP are meeting him this afternoon.

Any tips for meeting a rescue for the first time? Other than being gentle and calm? He's 8 months so a bouncy chap.

ARGGGH! So excited. 😁

OP posts:
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hereismydog · 04/10/2024 12:48

Oh OP!! I truly get it, my dog was horrible for a long time after a bad experience at doggy daycare. We don’t know quite what happened to him there as the daycare owner was very cagey, but he came back one day petrified of men, flinching whenever we moved and guarding his food, then started to bite us (we’d already had him over a year by this point!), we can only guess that he might have been hit by the daycare owner’s husband because of the sudden fear of men and thinking we were about to attack him whenever we moved towards him, but we can’t prove it 😞 they had, and continue to have, 5* reviews on all sites so we thought we could trust them.

We consulted a behaviourist because he was so bloody unpleasant to live with, and I was at the point where I dreaded going home to him because who knew what sort of mood he’d be in, and I genuinely didn’t like him for a while Sad a LOT of hard work later and he’s a fabulous, funny, lovely boy who doesn’t bite or act crazy around his food.

Your boy is so young and green, so a good trainer should be able to help you.

user86345625434 · 04/10/2024 12:57

@HangingOver I would throw a blanket or some sort of covering over the crate, make it more sheltered, dark and den like, so it’s a place of security for him.
The mouthing definitely needs nipping in the bud! Sounds like he’s an adult sized puppy. Good luck.

WiddlinDiddlin · 04/10/2024 13:05

I also have concerns about using a time out like this.

Time outs do work where the dog understands what he should be doing instead, and the underlying reasons for the behaviour are already addressed.

In this case I suspect neither is true.

So what is likely to happen is that he will get more frustrated, trust you less (as you're startling and manhandling him) and therefore he will be more inclined to bite you very hard as a result.

Trying to extinguish a behaviour like this will result in whats called the 'extinction burst' where just as it looks like the dog is grasping the idea, they will suddenly try 10 x harder to get the old behaviour to work. This is perfectly normal, we all do it - its scribbling harder with a pen that doesn't work, flickign the light switch a couple of times before you accept the bulb is gone or the power is out, turning the key several times before admitting the car is in fact dead...

However when it is a dog trying to get a particular response from you by using his teeth, it will be biting VERY hard, jumping up, etc...

If you must use time outs (and there are situations where they're necessary) - they need to be swift, consistent, low drama/fuss, no manhandling/raising voices.

I deploy a time out for dogs barking at me to hurry up when prepping food - so they can see me, the second they bark I drop what I am doing, step away from the counter, fold my arms and look at the ceiling.

This is then a very clear message that I am NOT doing the thing they want me to do, that in fact their behaviour is my 'off switch'.

The second we have quiet, I resume food prep... and repeat, ad nauseum, until they grasp it.

However as I say, these are dogs who already know that lying on the mat = food happens, that barking halts play, that biting halts play, that sitting nicely earns attention/reward... and they have some impulse control.

Yours doesn't have that.

The advice to shout at him, squeak or yelp at him, turn your back on him - these will ALL fail and frustrate him and wind him up further.

I'll urge you again to get the ZigZag Puppy Training App, as you can then have 24/7 access to real, qualified positive reinforcement trainers who HAVE absolutely dealt big, bitey, idiotic young dogs, sighthounds, mastiffs, hunting dogs, rescue dogs... and do understand what is practical and sensible and what might result in a short term 'fix' but a long term bigger problem.

FloweryPoweryLove · 04/10/2024 13:15

OP there are some wonderful people on Facebook called Dog Training Advice and Support. Read their free guides and you can ask for advice

Screen shot to show correct group as many with similar names. I’ve circled the guides.

NB edited to try and add link

https://www.facebook.com/share/g/br3HZxNbMadpfmrr/?mibextid=K35XfP

Oh my giddy god......
diddl · 04/10/2024 13:26

Hope it all goes well & works out for you Op.

But please also think of yourself & that you could give a different dog a loving home if you aren't the right fit for each other.

It's daft I know how quickly you love "your" dog.

We had a rescue mix, sadly only for 11yrs as he was 5 when we got him but I always thought that whichever dog we had brought home we would have loved as much.

BourbonsAreOverated · 04/10/2024 13:56

I’m so sorry it’s been bumpier than expected, please be mindful of who your taking advice from its an unregulated profession. Lots of well meaning people doing a five minute online course can call themselves one. If the rescue have people they recommend, use them.

HangingOver · 04/10/2024 14:18

If the rescue have people they recommend, use them

Yep that's what I'm doing. The rescue training was super on the phone and he said the guy I've contacted near me is known to him and very good 👍🏻

OP posts:
spiderlight · 04/10/2024 14:41

You need someone who's a member of the APDT. They are very thoroughly assessed and work within a strict code of practice, using positive, reward-based training, not aversives.

WiddlinDiddlin · 04/10/2024 14:47

Yeah, unfortunately there are some rescues out there quite happily using aversive based trainers, totally unaware that those trainers and their methods are why dogs are bouncing out of homes and back into rescue.

If this trainer is not APDT, PACT, APBC, ABTC, PPG (one or more of these is not unusual) then I would seek out another trainer.

There is no good reason for not being a member of a professional body (unfortunately some professional bodies are simply a 'pay to join' club!), they should be happy to explain their education, their CPD and their methods and why those methods work, and what the risks of those methods are. Again if not.. run.

eggandonion · 04/10/2024 15:16

Our late dog was smaller but also liked to herd and attack us.
We had a trainer who trained autism dogs...an hour with her was incredible.
I'm hoping things work out but if not lots of others are looking for a home.

oakleaffy · 04/10/2024 15:17

Still do think that some of the bigger rescues {who don't have to ''shift'' dogs fast} do a very good job of personality matching a particular dog to an owner- even if it means a dog might remain a little bit longer in kennels - Or the owner doesn't get the dog of their first 'choice'

It's much better for the dogs than repeated bounce~backs.

The 'shaming' one sees on Facebook 'rescues' where they are quick to rehome and then when the dog is inevitably returned, {Often for biting} there are ''guilt tripping'' comments like
''Don't worry, Fido, WE still love you''

One absolutely beautiful smooth coated Lurcher I saw had new and old scars over her shoulders- Strange for a ''working'' type of wound.

She had the most appalling separation anxiety, and would routinely break out of crates {hence the injuries }

She had had five homes.

Tragically the man who was the
sixth home returned her as she was in such a state of panic at being left alone- and he liked to go out in the evenings.

Possibly people had used shock devices on her, to get her to be quiet.

Who knows.

Yet this dog was gentle and walked beautifully on the lead, and had a good recall.

A dog like the Lurcher would ideally be a ''Yard'' dog, for a stables, where there is someone around all the time.

Greyhound Gap have some long stayers that will not likely be re-homed unless the home is absolutely what a hound needs.

DeccaM · 04/10/2024 16:40

I hope today goes better for you. I don't want to add to the mounds of information you've already received, but I agree with some PPs that a "timeout" might not be the best approach for this behaviour. The good news is that it sounds like overly exuberant play rather than anything worrying. But of course, it's essential to get a handle on the mouthing and grabbing clothes.

In addition to some of the resources listed above, I would recommend watching some of KikoPup's videos on YouTube. She has some that are specifically dedicated to puppies who like to bite clothes. Her approach is excellent IMO and she explains each step clearly.

Good luck with everything. I'm rooting for you!

drivinmecrazy · 04/10/2024 17:24

I agree with previous posters who have suggested that you all get up and leave the room.
We have a large dog so we couldn't man handle him if we tried.
But simply getting up and walking out used to have an immediate affect.

He'd suddenly realise he was the only one in the room and come to us in a different mindset.

It's still a method we use even now he's twenty months old.
He's not great at regulating his own sleep during the day so often gets overtired and acts up.

I also wonder whether it's advisable to walk him with other dogs at the moment in these very early days.
Maybe you should focus on quiet walks just you and him to build your bond

HangingOver · 04/10/2024 18:24

Tiny pupdate: I tried the time out and it was a brilliant at de-escalating the situation. We were in the conservatory and he was chewing his toy, being a bit excited and switched to my sleeve, getting my hand slightly. I said "Oops" in a neutral tone, as trainer suggested, and immediately left the room. Waited ten seconds and came back and gave him his chewey toy. We did that three times and I haven't had any arm chomping at all today so far. 🤞🏻

OP posts:
MasterShardlake · 04/10/2024 18:42

That's fantastic OP, a result! Great that you were able to stop it before he got himself too wound up.

Roryno · 04/10/2024 19:07

That’s fabulous. Remember it’s his first day. Hopefully he’ll calm down.

Our second rescue lab had had four homes in his first year. The rescue didn’t home check or anything, gave us a reduced fee. We should have known! He came in like a whirlwind and scared our previous dog and the cats to death. He tried to shag everything, never stopped shaking toys and flinging them around. My husband loves to remind me that I said “he’s going to have to go back!” But I booked him into be neutered two days later and gradually he settled. He was always a high energy dog. He loved to retrieve, which helped. He was fabulous at gun dog drives, dock diving, flyball (although we got disinvited from coming back as he got his own ball then jumped the fence into the next lane and nicked theirs too!). When he was put to sleep a decade later he broke our hearts. Don’t tell all the others, but I think he was both my husband’s and my favourite dog ever.

hereismydog · 04/10/2024 19:08

Brilliant! Redirect, redirect, redirect. Amazing work, OP and Pod boy ❤️

I just wanted to share with you the BEST two tips I got from the residential behaviourist I sent my boy to for a week in utter desperation:

• Don’t set him up to fail. In time you’ll learn his triggers so you can avoid putting him in a situation where he has to choose whether he wants to react or not, if the trigger isn’t there, he can’t make the ‘wrong’ choice.

• Don’t allow free access to toys; playtime is when you say it is, and ends when you say it does. My boy is SO much calmer since we’ve implemented this, as he knows when to switch on and off.

These things won’t happen overnight as you’re still brand new to one another, but they are definitely two of the most important things I’ve ever learnt re dog training! Remember, he’s still a baby in the grand scheme of things, he’s confused and probably feeling very insecure as he’s been bounced around so much already in his little life. Everything our dogs do is communication, but we have to learn what they’re trying to tell us!

hereismydog · 04/10/2024 19:09

Also when he’s a bit bigger, he would probably be a great candidate for agility. He’s got the build for it, and it will give him a ‘job’ to do, thus keeping his brain busy and it’s a really nice bonding activity for the two of you. I do it with my boy and he loves it Smile

whyhere · 04/10/2024 19:35

Definitely put a blanket on the top of the crate (not hanging down the sides or he’ll try to pull it through the bars!).

abracadabra1980 · 04/10/2024 20:17

OP you are doing SO well. This is a phase. He's young. Follow what your trainer tells you as I agree the info on social media and everyone's opinions are overwhelming. My first Pug used to hang off the back of my Ugg boots EVERY DAY on the school run 😠 amd My Newf used to bite at my dressing gown which was SO annoying. It seems like decades ago now. Mrs Newf also had a 'funny turn' at about 14 months - started biting at my arm with whale eye. Not being aggressive but was more than play mouthing. Was like she was obsessed by the devil for 5 minutes. I'm quite experienced with dog behaviour but was slightly taken aback. Calmed her down and rang breeder - breeder said she was possibly trying to mate with me!! I've not heard that one before. It's never happened again so a non issue now.. keep on going. I'm willing you to succeed with this. X

veggie50 · 04/10/2024 21:00

Sounds like you got yourself a good trainer. It is so easy when you know what to do, isn't it? Don't forget though that the "knowing what to do" is what you hire the trainer for, so don't be tempted to stop having the trainer too soon because DDog has stopped biting, keep at it until you are satisfied you have a full understanding of what tiggers DDog and how to respond plus all the normal recall, heel etc. This is an investment that would benefit both of you its whole life, you won't regret it!

redtrain123 · 04/10/2024 21:11

Only read op’s updates and not the whole thread, hope you’re having a good, calm evening. Guess it’s all a bit overwhelming for you all, all three of you, and you’ve all get to get used to one another.

HangingOver · 04/10/2024 21:46

Night time pupdate 🤫

We've had a great day. He was a little sod for about 90 minutes this morning, but napped during the day in and out of his crate. Was calm in his crate with his filled kong both times we got back from walking so i could get some jobs done. Way less stealing things, nipping de-escalated and get this one... i got up just now to make some food, he watched me make it and when i sat down to eat it he took himself off to his crate for bed! I've never known a dog not beg for food. Possibly he's so stuffed from treats today rewarding his good behaviour but honestly the green flags on this dog, i swear. What an absolute little star he is. Thank you thank you thank you doghouse, you're helping me SO much. He says thank you too.

Oh my giddy god......
OP posts:
BettyBardMacDonald · 04/10/2024 21:48

So adorable!

Musicalmaestro · 04/10/2024 21:52

What a lovely update.
It’s very early days and things are looking promising. You are still getting to know each other and he is young so lots to learn,